Going tubeless without UST tyres

I gather there is no real need to use ‘tubeless specific’ tyres to convert to tubeless but what are the relative benefits of the two options. (I only have tubeless ready rims (SLR & XTR)

Non tubeless = lighter tyres, sealant must be used so therefore increases puncture resistance

Tubeless = Better bead sealing (easier to mount & can run lower pressures?) and no ndeed for liquid sealant to be used.

Is this correct?
What other points am I missing?

Sound right to me although I have only run ghetto tubeless with non tubeless tyres and rims.

tubeless tyres generally have stiffer sidewalls that allow the lower pressures to work – normal tyres won’t give you all the advantages of lower pressure so for the cost of the tyres, i’d go UST unless you just want less flats. ust’s a step up in comfort, grip and lack of faff or punctures. heard some good reports on conversions but personally can’t be arsed with the faff potential. Maxxis UST on Shimano UST wheels, easy life )

But USTs heavy if you normally use light tyres. The trouble you’ll have is that SLRs and XTR wheels are designed to be run with UST tyres, so the profile of the rim is such that it’ll be a total bitch to get a non tubeless tyre to inflate properly. For convenience, I’d probably go UST, if you’re really bothered about weight you shouldn’t have bought SLRs or XTR wheels anyway 🙂

Yeah, it will be a problem inflating a non-UST tyre on a UST rim, cos it will be really loose.

I think your best option (which is what I use) are bontrager tubeless ready or Geax TubeNoTube type of tyres. These have the UST bead, but are light weight like normal tyres.
You need to use sealant, but I would use that in UST tyres anyway, otherwise you don’t get much puncture protection.

I’m very happy with my ‘heavy’ 1500g wheels :-)… I’m also a rather big chap @ 90kg and have had no issues with either as yet. I run both with Conti supersonic tubes currently and exclusively use Schwalbe patterns but one of my cycling buddies recommends making the step over to non-UST and using sealant.
(considering the comments made on here about in-field repairs should you puncture with sealant tires I feel quite happy with my inner tube solution)

“But USTs heavy if you normally use light tyres. “

my 2.1 UST hi rollers are 650 ish – lighter than a 2.2 Mountain king and a tube.

“Yeah, it will be a problem inflating a non-UST tyre on a UST rim, cos it will be really loose”

It’s no problem using non-ust tyres on UST rims – if anything they need over inflating to ‘pop’ the bead into place, tight rather than loose.

I’m not feeling argumentitive today, honest! ) just can’t agree with those comments fom my experience of UST rims so far.

The general diffence between a normal tyre and a UST tyre is about the weight of the inner tube you use. At face value the UST tyres are ‘heavier’ but most folk forget to allow for the inner tube weight when comparing to normal tyres. Normal tyres will run tubeless with a relevant kit or homemade bodge. They will probably be lighter, they will roll better and provide better grip just like UST, but, unless the right tyre is chosen, they’ll be way more prone to siudewall damage, will very often be considerbly more difficult to inflate and keep inflated, will, probably be more prone to punctures, even with sealant, and you won’t be able to run them as low pressure as UST due to weaker sidewalls rolling about too much.

My favorite combo is stans flows with UST kendas. The flows don’t need a rim strip but are still lighter than UST rims. Cuurently experimenting with normal Maxxis singleply high rollers. They have not bad sidewalls for non-ust, but they’re still weedier than UST sidewalls.

Whichever way you go – use sealant

I use ust rims with non ust tyres (Mavic crosstrails and Michelin/Specalized tyres) just fine in fact getting any tyre off the rim once its on be it with or with out tube is hard work as the tyres really ‘pop’ onto the rim (sounds just like when they fit car tyres).

It’s no problem using non-ust tyres on UST rims – if anything they need over inflating to ‘pop’ the bead into place, tight rather than loose.

I wasn’t saying there was any problem once they were inflated, but it’s pretty difficult to get them up in the first place, sinec the bead doesn’t seal with the rim channel like UST. On tubless converted rims you get round this by having a rim strip which makes everything tighter.

Stans rims = lighter than ust rims

…used with…

Normal tires = lighter/cheaper than usd tyres

….without…

Inner tubes = lighter than tubed wheels

…used with

Sealant = lighter than an inner tube and offers puncture protection.

Other than the cost I think the Stan’s Rims are brilliant. I run Michelin tyres at 20psi and despite them not being recommended for Stan’s rims I’ve not had any problems and not punctured once despite there being several ‘Ooh look there’s sealant bubbling out I must have a thorn in the tyre’ moments.

pretty much all imagianble tubeless setups are possible, but it really comes down to what you want to achive functionally….

I currently have a Mavic crossland using a specialized “Captain” tubeless tyre with some sealant in and I’d say its a good strong, pretty light (by my standards) and cheap, “proper” UST wheel/tyre Combo, but no lighter (or heavier really) than a good tubed setup.

I also have a stunningly heavy tubeless IRC DH tyre (1650g for the tyre alone!), I use the “ghetto” method to run it on an EX729 rim to very good effect; this is purely for the increased air volume and significantly reduced pinch flat benefits of using tubeless tyres and obviously as a DH wheel weight and longevity are of secondary importance, it only has to last for a few minutes of descending but providing better shock absorbtion and grip by allowing more deformation (due to increased air volume, Not lower pressures as some would have you belive) does seem to help, and I’ve yet to pinch flat with it despite some squiffy landings and some definate “feeling the roots/rocks” moments.

I have also used the “ghetto” method to run non UST tyres on non UST rims and even though it is alot of effort to make sure a tyre seals properly it does work (Even on 24″ wheels)

The up shot of all this rambling is pretty much any setup is possible, “proper” UST (using a UST Rim and tyre in conjunction) will not be noticably lighter/heavier than an equivalent tubed setup, it will improve pinch flat protection as you have no tube to pinch any more but you should still use sealant as no tyre is totally Thorn/Nail/Laser proof, this setup will also be the least likely to develop leaks or unseated beads once installed.

Cost wise, many UST and Stans products are still in my opinion an utter rip off, I stand by the “Ghetto” method (a hacked up 20″ inner tube and some sealant), which has worked a treat for me…

installation wise there are a few things that can help, first is obviously getting that bead seated, weather using all pucker UST kit or a total bodge a bit of sealant smeared over the bead will help it slide into position and should also assist sealing at the rim, then just wipe away any excess, and a compressor is the ideal inflation method, some swear by rapid operation of a track pump, but why knacker yourself when tecnology can help, just pop by your local Shell forecourt in the dead of night they won’t mind, I always try to over inflate (go to the highest recommended preassure) to seat the bead and then look for leaks, if I find non or I seal them up I leave it overnight and look for pressure loss in the morning, scout around there are plenty of “how to’s” on the interweb…

finding out if tubeless is for you really comes down to trial and error (and it can cost both money and time) some people see the benefits some can’t get past the lack a tube and others will umm and arr indefinately, give it a go if you hate it you can always whack a tube in…

Just to pick up on my original comment, I said UST’s heavier if you normally use light weight tyres. Not if you use bog standard Mountain Kings (for example).

I can’t be arsed to read the rest of this thread. Tubeless is awesome, I had some of the first Crossmax UST into the country in 2001 and haven’t looked back since, if you care about weight, don’t use UST, if you don’t, and you want the most versatile system, use UST.

Mavic 729 rims, folding Kenda nevegal DTC tyres, BMX tubes from Asda, the right amount of Stans no holes stuff a compressor, bucket of soapy water and about an hour a wheel to fit and slosh the stuff about. Job’s a good’un.

Not pumped them up for 3 months.

People said the Kenda’s wouldn’t have it too.

search U tube for Ghetto tubeless. do what the chinese looking guy does

U tube video for you.

I’d have to agree with coolhandluke. normal rims (xm719s), 20″ innertube, wheelmilk + kenda nevegals. no problems what so ever. They never lose air and cost me about £3.99 for the innertube and £15 for the wheelmilk (enough to do 20 tires) all inflated with a track pump

only a slight amount of faff initially, but definately worth it.

I had anger management issues with non-tubeless tyres – search for the thread, there were some useful pointers for getting it to work.

It requires some common sense. A non-ust super light race tyre used with sealant is probably going to be too flexy and likely to rip and be harder to fit. I’ve used all forms of tubeless extensively, from ghetto, stans and UST all with UST or non-ust tyres (mostly DH variety). I’ve had no issues, I managed to run them for 8 weeks solid riding in the alps without a single flat on the trail, (only slow leaks).

I’d always use sealant no matter what type of tyre. I find the most reliable system to eliminate air burping is ghetto but it’s more time consuming.