This is why I will not go to England this year either

See, even Coronavirus has it’s upsides… 😉

As is said it’s not necessarily the location, it’s the actions of the people at that destination – wherever that may be.

Indeed, giving people the green light to head off for a couple of weeks in the sun, where they will have a few drinks, feel relaxed, shake off the worries of pox ridden COVID Britain, get to know others…that’s not in the slightest bit risky, as long as they behave themselves while they’re there.

Correct, we do have to live with it. But that phrase inherently means making compromises, not expecting to continue as normal. Otherwise you’d just be “living”, no? I expect the government, who after all have the best data on the highest risks, to choose actions designed to minimise these risks. Sadly, it’s clear they have failed repeatedly and thus I trust myself to mitigate the risks to me and my family.
Look at Australia and the actions they’ve taken in the past few months. Aren’t you envious of that?

For some a compromise will be not riding a bike with friends or travelling X distance for a bike ride. Its all relative some people live for a holiday others live to ride their bike. Its easy to point fingers but, we need to reflect on our own actions and maybe wonder how those would be viewed by others before pointing fingers. Whats it they say about pointing the finger 3 point back at you.

No, he’s suggesting travelling abroad on holiday increases the risk of the infection spreading.

The same could be said to those travelling to a local trail centre or going to wales for a weekend of riding. People need to relax and realise everyone is different and will do and want to do different stuff.

You’ve only got to look at #caerphillylockdown on Twitter, there’s more than a few people who just don’t care and there are enough greedy people out there happy to take their money to let them into 300+ capacity “Bars” which are all but Night Clubs in anything but name, Airlines who aren’t happy to just be able to operate, but still want to sell drinks to people who are supposed to be wearing masks. The attitude seems to be “it won’t hurt me”.

100% agree with this! I’ve done one or two shifts delivering groceries in the Caerphilly area and pretty much every 3rd one was a load of booze and party food, a few I’ve interrupted the parties! Been the same in Cardiff but not as prevalent with no students here yet, the older generations are carrying on though. The spread is happening for one main reason: irresponsible socialising.

Back from Lithuania and northern Poland to Germany. IMHO SD and mask wearing in these countries is the same physical distance and as effective as home (Germany). We expected border checks but nothing, just drove through.

Protests, pubs, bars, restaurants.. what you do in proximity of others, or not if you avoid these places, is more important than actually being in a particular country.

We were very fortunate in that we could drive to holibobs in Central Europe….

The same could be said to those travelling to a local trail centre or going to wales for a weekend of riding. People need to relax and realise everyone is different and will do and want to do different stuff.

Only if you share transport with a couple of hundred other people on the way there

On holiday right now. I was concerned about flying but the plane was at most half full – probably safer than taking the tube. Heathrow was very quiet.

Now I’m here I’m not going inside anywhere, not into cafes, not eating out, choosing quiet beaches, one quick shop in a small supermarket. I’m safer myself here than I am at home and I’m doing my best to not be the one who brings infection here.

That’ll be the same youngsters who are the primary care, retail, pub and cafe workers on zero hours contracts and on the job loss front line and generally living in expensive rentals being tutted at by all the retirees, by to let landlords and safely working from home bods. Can’t really blame them myself.

This. Nobody gave much of a shit for youngsters when they triple locked pensions, began tuition fees etc etc etc.

On holiday right now. I was concerned about flying but the plane was at most half full – probably safer than taking the tube.

Interesting study on air recirculation in vehicles and covid.

JAMA: asymptomatic super-spreader on bus infected 23 passengers. Exhaled airborne aerosols that float & travel far likely contributed to outbreak since many of those infected sat far away from index patient. The central air conditioner was set to "recirculation mode" …1/3 pic.twitter.com/CEsjixpMtm

— Dr. Ali Nouri (@AliNouriPhD) September 4, 2020

TL:DR It’s not about the distance between you and your fellow travellers, if someone has it at the front of the vehicle, it can be evenly distributed all around the passenger compartment.

We went to Norfolk and socially distanced. The trip to Colorado is on hold. Son2 missed his trip to Japan.

Three of us are flying to Northern Ireland on Friday and I will be driving Son2 to Ireland for his University course. He will self-isolate in-hall for 14 days (but does not officially have to from NI) with his classmates from Spain and Scotland. We are staying in an isolated cabin for one night (avoiding all contacts including the owner!) then returning via Northern Ireland. I would be happy to self-isolate on return and work from home, should the quarantine situation change.

Norfolk was lovely – obvs not as nice as Devon (God’s own county), but very pleasant.

Only if you share transport with a couple of hundred other people on the way there

No, but you’re still doing something that isnt essential and you will be with a few hundred people when you get there none from your own house hold. i feel like you missed my point but oh well. have a nice day.

100% agree with this! I’ve done one or two shifts delivering groceries in the Caerphilly area and pretty much every 3rd one was a load of booze and party food, a few I’ve interrupted the parties! Been the same in Cardiff but not as prevalent with no students here yet, the older generations are carrying on though. The spread is happening for one main reason: irresponsible socialising.

Yep, Cardiff City centre is supposedly looking a lot like it did pre-covid, bars are packed, Social Distancing largely ignored.

The Police say they don’t have the numbers to tackle it, they’re still flat out with the usual public order stuff, it’s up to the Bars to ensure they’re compliant, which up to now they’re not. It took a big spike and people flooding Social Media with videos for them to act, 6 of the big bars have got until tomorrow to sort their shit out, or they’re being closed down, I just don’t think it can be done. I mean we’re talking about the same kind of people who buy plugs for seatbelts so they can drive without them out, without the warning bells going off, it’s THAT level of stupid we’re dealing with.

I went on 13 foreign holidays last year, so suffice to say I love travelling.

Since lockdown has eased, we had a brief thought of a week in the alps, but a quick think about the risks both to us and others, made it a no brainer to stay at home this year.

The places I want to go will still be there in a couple of years when this is under control (assuming a vaccine is available by then)

I mean we’re talking about the same kind of people who buy plugs for seatbelts so they can drive without them out

WTAF

Just wait until the 1m+ people move around the country this week, mixing from all areas of the UK, Europe and beyond.

Yes, I am talking about universities, and yes my family is one of them.

you will be with a few hundred people when you get there none from your own house hold

Can you really not see that being outside in the fresh air where it’s easy to social distance is completely different to sitting on a plane with air con circulating round?

Aye, there’s always been “fresher’s flu”

Can you really not see that being outside in the fresh air where it’s easy to social distance is completely different to sitting on a plane with air con circulating round?

But thats not my point. For some people travel is their thing much like riding a bike for the majority here. You can’t bemoan people for going on holiday when they could likely do the same for something you yourself are doing. Is going on holiday essential no, is travelling to ride a mountain bike essential no… you can just ride a bike from your front door.

The risks maybe less (outdoors and such) but the risk is still there (stopping for petrol, touching the parking meter, visiting the trail shop) and if zero covid is the plan and we all must bee good citizens all we should be doing is going to the shops for food as little as possible and exercising as little as possible from home. There is a lot of grey area and everyones is different.

I mean we’re talking about the same kind of people who buy plugs for seatbelts so they can drive without them out,

My neighbour has one of these. Coincidently, she thinks face masks restrict your breathing, so she wears a visor for work.

if zero covid is the plan and we all must bee good citizens all we should be doing is going to the shops for food as little as possible and exercising as little as possible from home

Yes I’m already doing all that. So what you’re saying is that some people are better citizens/less selfish than others? I agree.

Travelling might be their thing
But cycling does not involvr travel to airports, full of randoms, sitting on a plane, full of randoms quietly hoping the hepa filters go down to. 1 micron
Getting on a greek transfer coach that had had 100 randoms on it already that day
Or i put on my bike gear, go ride bike in open countryside and woodland areas and can stay 100mtr from everyone
Biking is my thing, holidibobs isnt

I dont get the mentality of having to go away like it is essential and bad things will happen if you dont. Maybe people think being awaybin a warm sunny place makes you covid immune

I would not do it. But I can’t consider it negligent or selfish, when it’s being encouraged by governments.

Further on the blaming of young people, stats for England in the last 2 weeks split by age group on a recent BBC article. More people over 30 than under 30 testing positive. So I’m calling politically motivated bullshit on the claims that only young people are the problem. Everyone needs to take more responsibility themselves and cast less blame around.

I live for my holidays usually taking 2 or 3 a year often one to europe. this year I have had one in a quiet part of scotland. Its no excuse. risk is cumulative so every time you take a risk you increase the cumulative risk.

There is a lot of grey area and everyones is different.

Getting on a plane and breathing the same air as another 100-300 people for several hours isn’t grey at all, its a high risk environment.

Going for a ride on your own in the countryside isn’t grey either, its a very low risk environment.

I really don’t see how you can equate the two.

I dont get the mentality of having to go away like it is essential and bad things will happen if you dont

I don’t really understand it either, but as I’ve said in previous threads, we are all in different mental health spaces. For some folk it’s way more important than it is for others. It’s not fair to simply dismiss others perceptions as irrelevant.

Quite surprised by the breadth of responses on here. My view is that if Cummings can do what he did then others have a carte blanche to do whatever TF they want really.

That’s a lame copout and you know it. ^^^^

Yes I’m already doing all that. So what you’re saying is that some people are better citizens/less selfish than others? I agree.

To be honest i didn’t expect a different response thats easy to say over the internet. But, its not about being selfish its about doing what you think is best and not passing judgement on others.

Getting on a plane and breathing the same air as another 100-300 people for several hours isn’t grey at all, its a high risk environment.

Going for a ride on your own in the countryside isn’t grey either, its a very low risk environment.

I really don’t see how you can equate the two.

two words. Up. Lift. Many are not riding on their own, myself included.

Im not equating the two as the same at all. Everything has higher risk than others thats all im saying. As i sit here with a broken hand after a weekend out on bikes potentially riding bikes wasn’t the wisest decision i could make during a pandemic.

Im simply saying you and anyone else may be partaking in activities that others deem negligent and its not for you to pass judgment on what others do. Is riding a bike in a pandemic doing a dangerous sport negligent? Try looking at it that way.

We drove to the french alps for 2 weeks biking this summer and loved it. Did feel like I was doing anything wrong? No, no one at the UK border coming back even asked where we had been which I thought was odd because Spain was on the quarantine list at the time but not France so clearly UK border force weren’t interested about it.

The bit I really struggle with is that healthcare workers are exempt from doing quarantine! I even have a letter informing me that I am exempt. Surely healthcare workers working in hospitals would be top of the list of occupations you would want to quarantine before the return to work.

Careful Chrismac, with comments like that you risk being called negligent and selfish. There are groups of people who seem to expect us to just sit at home with the lights off until this thing blows over totally ironing the mental health implications that will have.

The bit I really struggle with is that healthcare workers are exempt from doing quarantine! I even have a letter informing me that I am exempt.

I really thought this was over now? Partner works for the NHS too and was told if she goes on holiday she would still have to isolate.

Getting on a plane and breathing the same air as another 100-300 people for several hours isn’t grey at all, its a high risk environment.

Plenty of sourses state that their HEPA air filters take out viruses.

My Spanish rental Villa has been full all summer and is pretty low risk, guests drove here and all live together as a family, find quiet beaches and shop individually, or so they tell me.

I have them all on whatsapp so that’s contact tracing taken care off.

Oth I go to uk soon and have to stay in 2 weeks, ok fair enough, will do. The problem is the bars in the spanish towns, they re packed and no-one wears a mask as they are drinking. No way I d ever go in, it’s an outbreak waiting to happen.

We went to the southern alps for two weeks beginning of August via tunnel, was booked last december and advice was that its ok to travel so we weighed up the risks and decided that we could probably social distance easy enough over there in a very quiet location compared to what some places were like here in the summer. I would have lost a fair bit of money if we hadn’t gone and that’s not something i have a lot of so we took all the risks on board and off we went. Had to isolate when home for 14 days which we thought may happen but was easy enough in the end. We don’t go to pubs or socialise in big groups at home so I don’t believe I can be classed as negligent when you see some of the things happening in some of the cities and towns over here with bars pubs and tourist areas heaving with people, mass protests with no social distancing at all. Idiots will be idiots no matter what country they are in.

To answer OP’s question

YES

Going on a holiday, travelling around during a pandemic is jus plain stupid.

Isn’t the question ‘Promoting travel without adopting adequate border testing & tracing….. negligence?’

Where I’ve just travelled to has a comprehensive border testing programme and has very little community transmission as a result. Almost all current cases are imported.

I mean we’re talking about the same kind of people who buy plugs for seatbelts so they can drive without them out

I mean surely they’re not legal to be sold in the UK?

*checks interwebs*

Oh.

OH!

That’s a special kind of stupid.

squirrelking

I mean surely they’re not legal to be sold in the UK?

*checks interwebs*

Oh.

OH!

Well that beeping noise can be bloody distracting, trying to open a beer and steer with your knees at 90mph is difficult enough as it is without that racket going on. 🙄

Greater Glasgow has 43 cases per 100k last week. Almost anywhere in England has lower cases.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/08/coronavirus-uk-map-confirmed-covid-cases-and-deaths-today

Probably higher than most of Europe lower as well.

Just need one of these to go with the bottle opener.