Seeing the infection rates rise across Europe and just about all of these rising figures being blamed on holiday makers.

Are theses holiday makers not massively negligent and incredibly selfish?

Why do they need to jaunt across Europe for their two weeks on the beach?

Pisses me off.

And I’m not pointing to the UK, but all across Europe. Numbers here in Germany are increasing and mostly in part due to people travelling further afield.

Maybe the powers that be should have been limiting travel.

I know lots of people that have avoided South Tyrol /Trentino (3-4 hour drive) and travelled from Bavaria to the North Sea (8 hour drive) knowing that they won’t be quarantined.

Bollocks

bunch of idiots especially those flying to go on holiday – and stop the ruddy whinging when you get quarantined.

Right at the beginning of this I knew that leaving scotland was not going to happen for me this year as I knew it would be incredibly stupid

I don’t think going abroad is a good idea just now. Same as going for a big piss-up in the pub on a Saturday night or going to a big football game or concert.

Other opinions are available.

Just do what you think is right… Personally, I’ve had a lovely time cycling and camping around Scotland. In fact, considering fitting in another wee tour before the weather turns.

I know of someone who went on holiday early August to Spain then missed two weeks work due to having to self isolate, got full pay because he “worked” (sent a couple of emails) from home. Not his fault though. Aye, right.

I’ve travelled from Sweden to Spain twice this Summer and will do it again in October. The Authorities at both sides have said this is OK.

Just do what you think is right

That is not the right approach as many people think it is okay to go on holiday as long as they can get back in time to avoid any of that pesky quarantine.

Flights, and holidays outside of UK, should never have been allowed and the justification that it is to save the airline industry, or retain businesses doesn’t hold up (unless the government has interests in those businesses of course)

Yeah, I’d tend to agree.

I love a holiday as much as anyone, but this supposed ‘need’ for one is bizarre.

Nope i believe most of the spread is being blamed on young people not social distancing and in people spending time in each others homes. In reality it is many factors, back to work, school, pub, shops and people who would spread or catch it on holiday are the types just as likely to do that in their own country. It never went away in Germany or uk so it is creeping back. Nothing to do with crossing an arbitrary border. Particularly within Europe.

It’s not difficult to imagine someone who prioritises their ‘need’ for a holiday will also prioritise their ‘need’ to work/go out rather than strictly adhere to a quarantine or masking. Confusion and rule-bending is not helped by the mixed messages of the government. People returning from holidays, people not being paid whilst isolating, the return to school and people being encouraged back into offices could be a seriously toxic mix. The next fortnight will be telling. The boarding school here has got kids back but I haven’t really noticed yet whether there’s much of an international mix as there usually is. You’d need a wicked sense of humour to send your child from S Korea to go boarding in Boris’s UK. This year I had tickets for Spain, Armenia and Georgia (no refunds yet) but it’s going to be two nights in Norfolk and that’s taking a bit of thinking about.

If it wasn’t for the need for group travel, going “away” on holiday wouldn’t be a problem just because it was in a foreign country. I’ll not get on a plane/bus/train in the near future but I probably would still sit in my car on the train to Europe.

If I was careful about my choice of venue and how I behaved there it easily could be safer than a break in the UK

What about those poor countries that depend almost entirely on tourism?

Where do you draw the line in any of this? Is it negligent for anyone to go to a supermarket when home deliveries are available? Is it negligent to leave your house for exercise?

A better testing and trace system would be the most effective thing.

No. Going on holiday in itself isn’t negligent or selfish.

Not following social distancing, mask wearing rules, quarantine and all the other advice is the negligent, selfish and stupid thing.

And if you can’t trust yourself to keep to those rules, then you shouldn’t have gone.

At this stage doing anything than following the previous full lockdown measures is likely to lead to a rise in cases. Somethings like return to school at least has some justification behind it, others like holidays, going to the pub, socialising… not so much. You can’t really call them negligent though if they are officially allowed.

Looks like we’re at the start of the second wave though and the effect of schools opening hasn’t really hit the figures yet so not sure what the government do next, I can see a gradual increase in the number of local lockdowns and then a national one again

The role of government is to lead and occasionally take unpopular decisions, like forcing Barry from no.32 to go without his holibobs in Marbella this year. Sadly this government doesn’t want to do anything like that.

The role of government is to lead and occasionally take unpopular decisions, like forcing Barry from no.32 to go without his holibobs in Marbella this year.

I do wonder whether the decision to add Spain to the quarantine list was in part a show of strength when negotiating Spanish fishermen’s access to British waters post-Brexit?

Going on holiday in itself isn’t negligent or selfish.

Not following social distancing, mask wearing rules, quarantine and all the other advice is the negligent, selfish and stupid thing.

This. It’s got little to do with the location and a lot to do with the lack of social distancing.
The current rise is being driven by “youngsters” who couldn’t give a shit.

Sadly this government doesn’t want to do anything like that.

Obviously this is not really true. It’s an incredibly hard balancing act – I can only imagine with dread what a labour gov would have done when put under pressure by all the trade unions (including those of the pilots, airport workers, etc.)

There’s growing evidence (see Wales) that a lot of the recent growth of cases is coming from the same place it did the first time around – travelling into the country via air travel.

Go Figure, the government knew that before they opened the “air bridges”.  Yet we have to protect the industry….  right?

Seeing the infection rates rise across Europe and just about all of these rising figures being blamed on holiday makers.

Are theses holiday makers not massively negligent and incredibly selfish?

Why do they need to jaunt across Europe for their two weeks on the beach?

Pisses me off….

To the OP, what do you suggest we all just sit inside until there is a vaccine? The reality is this virus isn’t going anywhere anytime soon and we have to live with it. For reference 2 weeks ago they think they finally got rid of polio. Its scary and stressful and making people act irrationally. People could also point the finger at yourself and say going for bike rides either in a group or solo is selfish. You don’t “need” to do it just like people don’t “need” to go on holiday.

I guess young people don’t really give a shit about what the government tells them because they perceive the government as not giving a shit about them

The current rise is being driven by “youngsters” who couldn’t give a shit.

That’ll be the same youngsters who are the primary care, retail, pub and cafe workers on zero hours contracts and on the job loss front line and generally living in expensive rentals being tutted at by all the retirees, by to let landlords and safely working from home bods. Can’t really blame them myself.

I’m sure young people having fun are contributing to the rise in infections but it’s also a very easy moralistic target for blame. As above many live in shared accomodation with no gardens, and work in service industries etc

The whole message around holidays and eating out is very confused though. There’s not really any way to see it except ‘well it’s a bad idea but, you know, jobs and stuff’

Can anyone tell me what the spacing is like on planes at the moment, I’ve been on trains, buses and tube in London and its been maybe 90% mask wearing and easy enough to socially distance, so not too high a risk imo.

To the OP, what do you suggest we all just sit inside until there is a vaccine? The reality is this virus isn’t going anywhere anytime soon and we have to live with it.

Correct, we do have to live with it. But that phrase inherently means making compromises, not expecting to continue as normal. Otherwise you’d just be “living”, no? I expect the government, who after all have the best data on the highest risks, to choose actions designed to minimise these risks. Sadly, it’s clear they have failed repeatedly and thus I trust myself to mitigate the risks to me and my family.
Look at Australia and the actions they’ve taken in the past few months. Aren’t you envious of that?

That’ll be the same youngsters who are the primary care, retail, pub and cafe workers on zero hours contracts and on the job loss front line and generally living in expensive rentals being tutted at by all the retirees, by to let landlords and safely working from home bods. Can’t really blame them myself.

And the same youngsters who will foot the bill too.

Tbh it’s not youngsters I see kicking about the same pubs every day, it’s the local silver militia on pensions that enable them to do so.

Youngsters are an easy target for the likes of Hancock, as he knows he’s appealing to these same semi alcoholic pensioners.

’m sure young people having fun are contributing to the rise in infections but it’s also a very easy moralistic target for blame.

Agreed, from my perspective I’m disappointed to see many people not adhering to the school’s mask policy at drop off. You have to wear a mask for about 100m FFS, not much to ask. Cases are low here so it’s not even about lower transmission, more to show the communities around the school that we actually give a shit.

It’s an incredibly hard balancing act – I can only imagine with dread what a labour gov would have done when put under pressure by all the trade unions (including those of the pilots, airport workers, etc.)

Yeah, thank god for Boris, Trump and Bolsonaro – think what a mess a Labour government would have made of things compared to them!

We went to France, drove there, stayed with friends in a quiet village, rode on our own in the hills, then drove back.

Probably similar CV-19 risk to being at home, interacted with one other family.

Can anyone tell me what the spacing is like on planes at the moment, I’ve been on trains, buses and tube in London and its been maybe 90% mask wearing and easy enough to socially distance, so not too high a risk imo.

I’ve had to wear a mask the entire time I am on the plane. No food or drink is served and there’s no garbage collection by staff. Minimal social contact.

In Sweden, I don’t need to wear a mask at all. In Spain, I must use a mask at all times and there is handgel everywhere. Two countries with very different strategies yet it’s still safe to travel between them. Anybodies guess which strategy is right.

To the OP, what do you suggest we all just sit inside until there is a vaccine?

No, he’s suggesting travelling abroad on holiday increases the risk of the infection spreading.

Agreed, from my perspective I’m disappointed to see many people not adhering to the school’s mask policy at drop off.

What policy? I’ve heard nothing about this from our school. I’d be happy to wear one if this was a requirement, but communications seem poor. Our schools drop off is all at one of multiple entry gates at staggered times.

Nope i believe most of the spread is being blamed on young people not social distancing and in people spending time in each others homes.

In Scotland where we have effective track and trace actually more than one outbreak is directly traced to flights from holiday destinations

Some folk decided to put an oaf in charge, buck stops at the top as far as I’m concerned.

No, he’s suggesting travelling abroad on holiday increases the risk of the infection spreading.

I don’t think the virus is particularly fussed about national boundaries. Going on holiday anywhere increases risk, as does any activity which increases social interactions, but it’s a balancing act.

I think the risk from holidays depends heavily on what you do and how you get there. Being outside in hot weather is one of the safest things you can do. On the other hand, planes sound like an ideal way to spread it.

I think it’s easy to sit here with 20-20 hindsight and say it was a terrible idea, and it’s not like there wasn’t a lot of people saying so at the time, but we were told it was safe and Covid was on a steep decline.

Personally, I don’t think travel was inherently unsafe, and I can’t help but think a least some of it was to do with Brexit negotiations are much as Covid, but the fundamental problem is that Pandemics are incompatible with being on a carefree holiday.

Here in Wales they seem to have pinpointed the spike in cases in Caerphilly to a ‘lads holiday’ to a Greek Island. A group of them all went on Hols together, then returned and carried on their holiday with a bar crawl. The result is a big spike in cases.

You’ve only got to look at #caerphillylockdown on Twitter, there’s more than a few people who just don’t care and there are enough greedy people out there happy to take their money to let them into 300+ capacity “Bars” which are all but Night Clubs in anything but name, Airlines who aren’t happy to just be able to operate, but still want to sell drinks to people who are supposed to be wearing masks. The attitude seems to be “it won’t hurt me”.

I find it very frustrating when we have to enforce rules and regulations on everyone, because of the actions of stupid and selfish people, but as much as I’ve enjoyed going to the Pub in the last couple of weeks, it seems you just can’t trust some people to not be dicks.

Also, FYI the Labour led Gov. in Wales and NHS Wales is citing Young People as the cause of the virus spreading.

In Scotland where we have effective track and trace actually more than one outbreak is directly traced to flights from holiday destinations

But do you not think that if those people had carried out social distancing while they were there then there may not have been an issue?
As is said it’s not necessarily the location, it’s the actions of the people at that destination – wherever that may be.

Over the last few weeks I’ve seen – every night – large groups of 16-30 year olds heading for the beaches in N Wales after the pubs closed at 10pm – zero social distancing. I’m pretty sure they would have done the same wherever they were on holiday.

TJ has posted some evidence of where the increases have come from, what else is there?

He said that “more than one” outbreak had been traced to people coming back from holiday – not all of them.

In Scotland where we have effective track and trace actually more than one outbreak is directly traced to flights from holiday destinations

And quite a lot of others traced to other events and activities.

Stupid people doing stupid things, either at home or abroad

yep – other have been traced to folk meeting up in houses, others to bars, others to workplaces. Hence the targeted restrictions.

Going to an area with higher incidence than where you are is of course and increased risk. This is why I will not go to England this year either 😉