[Closed] Genesis io vs Voodoo Wanga

Never ridden either, but one difference ss'ers seem to fret about is that the brake tries to spit the axle out of the back of the non drive side dropout on horizontal dropout/track-ended disc frames. Unless you put the disc mount inside the rear triangle like the newer on one scandal and horizontal dropout inbred. (and another frame which escapes me right now).
The wanga is clunkier looking than the genesis, but gets the best of both worlds as it has screws to push the dropouts back like trackends but the whole dropout moves (no need to reset the disc brake when you change ratios or the chain wears) and the dropouts are vertical so the axle stays put under heavy braking.

If it was my money I would save a few pennies more and get a 'new-shape' scandal, or get a brand new inbred and spend the change on some posh chain tugs.

[img] [/img]
dropouts work brilliantly, no faffing with disc mounts, wheels come out in the conventional way

I'd get the IO personally, though my friend has a wanga, in that red and it is a lovely frame. The extra cable guides for the gears on the Wanga look rubbish when run as a singlespeed and the brake hose guides are rubbish, but it does have a lovely headbadge. It also rides great, if that's important? 🙂

I have a passionate hatred of top tube mounted cable guides too, so IO everytime for me.

Someone on the forum already has a red Wanga and I have not seen a blue iO before so that would make my mind up instantly.

mmm nice rocketdog, take your point about the cable guides tho...

I got the cableguides taken off the top of my Wanga and it painted blue 😀

[img] [/img]

rocketdog ive just built mine up exactly like that but without the saddle or grips 😛

ohand i replaced the G with a K now its a voodoo ****a

ive just built mine up exactly like that but without the saddle or grips

You might find they add a bit of comfort on a long ride.

😀
might get the chance to choose the colour for the io!!!
candy apple green or cherry red????

LOL at theboatman

i've had both.

[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/naegears/300264979/ ]wanga[/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/naegears/3625707345/in/set-72157619656490943/ ]io[/url]

both been fine bikes. i fell out with the wanga early on when i threaded one of the sliding drops snugging it up on a long ride. made it home OK, but it needed new sliders.

io's track ends + avid bb7 are no bother even with a qr in the hub (with chain tug on the d/s) - wheel removal doesn't need the caliper to be moved.

which one is the nicer colour? 🙂

Both good bikes.

The io is the simpler and handles well. The Wanga has the convenience of the sliding dropouts.

Buy both!

Which posh chain tugs?

i like simple, and good handling, and poss being able to choose colour...so io wins.
question though, are chaintugs optional? i dont really understand

you won't need chaintugs with the io as it has bolts built in through the dropouts to push the axle back against the tension of the chain. (I mentioned chaintugs earier cos you would benefit from them to singlespeed an on-one. Sorry if i confused things.)

like thease [img] [/img]

ah i get you now...foray into the world of ss, loads of new things to learn!

I've got an Io, and it's a lovely bike.

The problem mentioned above with track ends and disc brakes and rearward movement is easily solved - tighten the locknuts on the rear hub properly. 🙂
there are also thumbscrews on the Io to adjust the chainline - quite neat.

Personally, I think you'll get a good bike whichever frame you buy. I'd probably get a Wanga if I wanted to switch between gears and SS, but if you don't want to do that, the Io would win every time for simplicity's sake.

for the io il be needing a bolt thru hub then? does anyone know what size?

Io is a lovely bike to ride, but the track ends contributed greatly to my reasons for selling. imo/ime they're a PITA compared to sliding dropouts, which are just great to use - one chain tension set up, and just drop the wheel in and out as usual. Io needs it adjusting every time i took the wheel out, and the caliper (XT) got in the way, and would need loosening each time too. comlete faff to do, and spoiled my experience of the bike.

out of those, despite not particularly liking the voodoo, i would get the voodoo, with the Io's track ends

Io is a lovely bike to ride, but the track ends contributed greatly to my reasons for selling. imo/ime they're a PITA compared to sliding dropouts, which are just great to use - one chain tension set up, and just drop the wheel in and out as usual. Io needs it adjusting every time i took the wheel out, and the caliper (XT) got in the way, and would need loosening each time too. comlete faff to do, and spoiled my experience of the bike.

out of those, despite not particularly liking the voodoo, i would get the voodoo, with the Io's track ends being the sole reason.

hmm slightly cold feet on the io now,
so when ever i need to remove the rear wheel (ie when i load up the car/addictively change tyres) i would have to loosen/reset the brake calliper? and there are complaints of having the axle move under heavy braking?
that does sound massively annoying...oh no cant decide again.

Any other suggestions for a frame?

kona unit (exactly the same dropout system as the voodoo) or something with an eccentric BB?

"The problem mentioned above with track ends and disc brakes and rearward movement is easily solved - tighten the locknuts on the rear hub properly"

yeah we were aware that disc forces can cause the axle to shift in theory but in reality it only happened under hard braking if we didn't do the bolts up very tight at all. a tester got it to shift by doing trials-style lunges against the brake onto a small stump, but apart from that it's been issue-free and our resident team rider / ss nutter Paul has had no issues while riding 3 or 4 x what i could manage in a very busy year )

walla24, no need for a bolt-thru hub as in 12mm stds, just a solid 10mm axle with nuts or bolts i/o a QR axle. most if not all SS hubs have this now.

"so when ever i need to remove the rear wheel (ie when i load up the car/addictively change tyres) i would have to loosen/reset the brake calliper?"

not always, it just needs setting in a position that allows the brake rotor out - this varies between brake models so some adjustment is needed. mine pops out fine, its a std spec 2010 bike.

SS and discs can be a minor hassle whatever you go for, creaking or less-than-stiff adjustable parts are the risk with other systems. we went with solid and simple, on the basis that if wheel removal needs to be racer-fast you're probably not considering a SS in the first place )

"and there are complaints of having the axle move under heavy braking?"

in theory, like in theory your front wheel can eject but in reality does it happen? i like simple...

marty's post is worth reading again )

I have a Genesis io id. The rear wheel has been solid so far. Its a bit of a faff to remove - but once set you don't need to touch the brake caliper until the chain tension changes dramatically - removing the wheel is easy without touching the brake - and it will go back to the same position as the position of the wheel is dictated by the chain length.

Its a PITA as you have to back off the screws that push the wheel back to get enough slack to get the chain off before removing the wheel

Edit - I do like having those screws tho - it means the wheel can't move forward/ out of line under pedalling pressure

TJ, i know what you mean, i use the screws on one side just to set wheel position on the disc side, and back them off on the drive side to allow this bit of slack. i find you only need a touch of slack to be able to ping the chain over the c/ring and derail it. looking into some wing-nut style bolts to make this easier, when we get them we'll have spares as retro-fit parts.

I had a Wanga, nice bike but I found the head angle a bit steep (for my liking). As far as the dropouts were concerned they were idiot proof. Another gripe was the ease with which the paint chipped... but it wasn't that much of a gripe.

right re-read all the posts, back on track for an io.
yeah fair enough like most things it takes a bit of adjustment but once set up its sorted.
I think i'l understand it more when i can have a look/fiddle
cheers all, will wait to hear back from the seller

[i]Its a PITA as you have to back off the screws that push the wheel back to get enough slack to get the chain off before removing the wheel[/i]
this is where a chaintug works better IMHO. could leave in the nds one to prevent any braking movement, but i've not experienced this yet.

[img] [/img]

james-o - Member

TJ, i know what you mean, i use the screws on one side just to set wheel position on the disc side, and back them off on the drive side to allow this bit of slack. i find you only need a touch of slack to be able to ping the chain over the c/ring and derail it. looking into some wing-nut style bolts to make this easier, when we get them we'll have spares as retro-fit parts.

Thats how I do it as well - thumb wheels would be better that wing nuts IMO

The bolt on the brake disc side is ver difficult to get an allan key on if needed

However I am impressed with the bike in general - rides nicely, reasonably light nice cable routing

I've got a Wanga. Its lurverly. The main advantage is that when you come to your senses, you can just put some gears on it. Bonus!

Have had an IO for a year now and been running it fine with a QR rear axle.

Never had to slacken the "thumbscrews" to get the wheel out. (Maybe people are running their chains too tight?)

I just derail the chain off the chainring, pop it off the rear sprocket and hey presto it slides out easy as pie.

Getting the wheel out of the caliper can be a bit tight, but have managed to find a chainlength (with help of a half link) that means it comes out fairly easily.

Never had to adjust the caliper either.

Really like the "thumbscrews", so easy to set up the wheel alignment and allows for really precise micro tweaking of chainline and of rotor within caliper. Much easier than the sliding drop outs in my P7.

However, sliding dropouts do give you a geared option.

In terms of ride, I find IO is a bit harsher than other more expsensive steel hardtails I jave ridden, but still a great bike for the money.

Have had an IO for a year now and been running it fine with a QR rear axle.

Never had to slacken the "thumbscrews" to get the wheel out. (Maybe people are running their chains too tight?)

I just derail the chain off the chainring, pop it off the rear sprocket and hey presto it slides out easy as pie.

Getting the wheel out of the caliper can be a bit tight, but have managed to find a chainlength (with help of a half link) that means it comes out fairly easily.

Never had to adjust the caliper either.

Really like the "thumbscrews", so easy to set up the wheel alignment and allows for really precise micro tweaking of chainline and of rotor within caliper. Much easier than the sliding drop outs in my P7.

However, sliding dropouts do give you a geared option.

In terms of ride, I find IO is a bit harsher than other more expsensive steel hardtails I jave ridden, but still a great bike for the money.

Apologies for double post - pc froze and so refreshed.

Curious to know where you can get an io frame in sky blue for £170?

Not a big fan of the slidey mounts on the voodoo. They're not the prettiest to look at but work really well. Would have thought the The voodoo is 631 steel (main tubes) and the Io 725. Not sure how that translates into ride so perhaps try and scrounge a test ride before hand.

Its a PITA as you have to back off the screws that push the wheel back to get enough slack to get the chain off

Learn to fix punctures on the wheel?

"The voodoo is 631 steel (main tubes) and the Io 725. Not sure how that translates into ride so perhaps try and scrounge a test ride before hand."

the iO is 520 now, we didn't really need the strength of 725 and wanted to keep the cost down.
The ride of 631, 725, 520 etc is the same for a given tubeset dimensions, so it's not necessarily the case that expensive steel equals a better ride, it depends what they've done with it. you can go thinner wall / slimmer tubes with the stronger stuff, but then denting and excess flex can be an issue.. but yes, a test ride is always good 🙂

TJ, yes like Paul Component style, it's the way to do it, i thought wingnuts may be easier with mud and gloves though? finding them in the right size to try out is another issue though..

fieldmarshal- got an email from a guy following my classifieds ad, its being resprayed as a blue so not sure if its availible elsewhere in that colour.

[img] [/img]

"The problem mentioned above with track ends and disc brakes and rearward movement is easily solved - tighten the locknuts on the rear hub properly"

yeah we were aware that disc forces can cause the axle to shift in theory but in reality it only happened under hard braking if we didn't do the bolts up very tight at all. a tester got it to shift by doing trials-style lunges against the brake onto a small stump, but apart from that it's been issue-free and our resident team rider / ss nutter Paul has had no issues while riding 3 or 4 x what i could manage in a very busy year )

walla24, no need for a bolt-thru hub as in 12mm stds, just a solid 10mm axle with nuts or bolts i/o a QR axle. most if not all SS hubs have this now.

I think we're basically saying the same thing, james-o 🙂

[edit] I forgot to add - those of you who get a bit annoyed with the grub screws in the track ends might want to try what I did - I got the right size Nyloc nut and screwed it on to the end of the grub screw. It's not as neat as a Paul thumbscrew, but it does make it much easier to adjust the tension without a teeny allen key. It's one of the only things I want to change with my frame - get some nice thumbscrews rather than the allen headed grubs that it comes with.[/edit]

Oh, and a pic:

[img] [/img]

I originally ran my Io (a frame only I put bits onto, rather than a complete bike) with a Hope XC cassette hub with a Salsa QR. I had the hub move *once* under heavy braking after I failed to do the QR up tight enough. I've since changed to a DMR SS hub which can take bolts or a QR, and since it came with bolts, I used those - and haven't had a problem since.

I run Hope Mono Minis on this bike, and don't need to loosen the caliper before removing the rear wheel. I've run Oro K 18s as well, and they don't need to be loosened either. The Oros are easier to set up, as there's no need to shim the caliper, and you can align the caliper to the disk accurately when tightening the chain, as track ends do mean you can have the rear wheel ever so slightly off the centre line.

If you take the rear wheel out a lot, then track ends might not be the perfect option. I had to drop my rear wheel out yesterday to change the pads, and, frankly, once you know the drill, it's a simple, quick job that allows you to sort chain tension at the same time. It took me longer to find the spare pads than it did to change them out.

[img] ?t=1258988362[/img]

it's for sale 🙂

🙄 Surprise!

lol

Fieldmarshall: just dumping the chain bends the drive side chain tug assuming you have enough chain tension. I'd wager that if you can just dump the chain, yours is too slack.

James-o - just noticed you mention adding new thumbscrews to the new Ios, and that they might be available aftermarket. Any idea on what they'd look like? I tried adding wingnuts to the grub screws on mine, but they foul the frame; a Paul-style head would definitely get my vote...

DMR chain tugs? I've got some but not fitted yet but they look good.

guys.... im am having a massively hard time deciding which to get!!!!
i can get an io frame for £150 now in silver as new or a vgc wanga frame for roughly the same.
Ok i want the io because its ss specific, you can alter chainline easily and it is beatiful and rides nice. Im against it because of the annoyance of the track ends as i remove wheels frequently to get in cars etc, also it sounds like a qr on the rear is a bad idea.

I want the wanga because its red (didnt really want a silver frame) the fancy sliding dropouts look really clever esp. as i take the wheel off a lot. Also i dont have to worry about calliper allignment and i can put gears back on.
I dont have any cons for the wanga..other than maybe the sliding dropout looks a bit naff?

not that im asking stw to choose my next build...but what the eck shall i do?????

will be run with black rebas, black rims and a snow camo bar/stem combo...might look better on silver??

help me out people! doing my head in

+1 for the wanga I like the ride and the dropouts never know you might get sore knees and want gears 💡

right after much! deliberation im going to get the wanga:
i can pretty easily put gears on it,
its lush red,
sliding dropouts....sorted

Good - and a good choice. To be fair, both are great frames, and I'm sure you'll have a great time with the Voodoo.

and voodoo owners get an ivite [url] http://www.flickr.com/groups/1085386@N25/ [/url]

and here for anyone [url= http://www.flickr.com/groups/1115925@N23/ ]this is why i ride, a group on flickr[/url]

bent udder - some larger headed allen bolts on thier way soon. thumbscrews tba - proving tricky..

love that 69er.. there's a full-on snow bike iO going up on the genesis news section of the site soon. how's it ride, what's the fork? did a conversion with a pace carbon fork on mine and loved it, it's started up a few projects here..

that voodoo in the pic looks veeeery steep at the front end, are they or is it the pic?

James-o - sounds cool!

The 69er was excellent, and I loved every minute of riding it. Sadly, I only have so much room in my shed, so the forks and wheel (and a lot of other stuff) had to go.

The forks were Singular Sam's Hummingbird forks - the numbers for the 16" Hummingbird and Io are quite similar, and I know the Hummingbird as a 69er rides very well. The rake is a little longer than normal, but Sam's your man for the speeds and feeds. All I know is that it felt as good as running a pair of Rebas on the front in terms of responsiveness - the steering was just right with a 75mm stem on the 16" size.

By the way, one reason I like the Nyloc fix is that the flats give some grip if you're turning them by hand. A bigger Allen head would be helpful, but some knurling on the outside would be great as well. Here's a pic:

[img] [/img]

similar to the bolt i found last week, just trying to find source in Taiwan.. knurled / grip head with simple screwdriver slot. same with allen head would be ideal.

Magic - I shall be waiting for those to arrive with cahs clutched in my sweaty mitt. 🙂