Dunno, isn’t it stay the fark away from large animals generally if loose – bloody simple. It’s an animal, it’s not your trained dog or cat ?

As said earlier, this type of cattle are generally pretty docile and fine to be amongst, however they had calves – which were unknown and unseen to/by the OP. Had the OP known this he wouldn’t have gone near them. Sadly the cows turned on him, there should’ve been warnings or the herd kept away from Rights of ways. He quite rightly raised this issue with the correct authorities, sadly the farmer decided he had to sell/kill the herd

Dunno, isn’t it stay the fark away from large animals generally if loose

Yep, indeed. I do lots of walking and if I’m unsure will give animals a very wide berth or find an alternative route. But they were unseen by the OP coupled with inadequate signage meant there was indeed a risk.

There had been previous incidents which had been dealt with “privately” (whatever that means) so sounds like there were missed opportunities to address any potential problems. A sad outcome but not one the OP had any control over.

And yet there is a growing call for rewilding and an introduction of species like wolves and lynx to the British countryside.

I’m not sure they are talking about introducing wolves to Stanage Plantation. Although it would make the bouldering more interesting. 🙂

This is effectively an outdoorsy theme park less than an hour from two major cities. Occasional conflict with farming interests is inevitable given the scale of visitor numbers.

In this case, it may well be earlier incidents with loose dogs has triggered this ongoing aggressive response in the herd. TBH if my herd had caused significant injury to walkers on such a popular path, as in the earlier incident where someone had to be airlifted, I would already be considering whether it is appropriate to keep them there in future.

The OP has done nothing wrong. His dog was on a lead. The calves were hidden. And you do tend to make a judgement (wrongly in this case) that a herd situated on such a busy track would be acclimatised to the presence of walkers and dogs.

The incident could have resulted in serious injury or worse to him or his family. While it is a shame that the herd has clearly been repeatedly spooked in the past, this is not the kind of thing that could be ‘dealt with privately’, as the farmer would prefer.

I’ve tried to inform the braying mob on a couple of fb pages, sadly it’s like peeing into the wind

You must be joking, this is a NIMBY wet dream. Even though there was no mountain bike involved in this incident at all, the mere fact that this was posted (probably ill advisedly) on a mountain bike forum will have them frothing and ranting. The generally good advice on this thread and the odd photo of (horror of horrors) people (and even kids) enjoying the outdoors on bikes, won’t make a jot of difference. The (obviously joking and flippant) comment about cheap steaks however, will be picked up and requoted over and over.

FWIW I love riding in the Peaks and the vast majority of walkers are nice people enjoying the countryside too. A tiny minority are just perpetually grumpy people who, if they really looked at themselves, would realise that their real problem is that they hate everything and everybody – and are incapable of taking joy in anything!

But that is the same anywhere.

And yet there is a growing call for rewilding and an introduction of species like wolves and lynx to the British countryside.

Sounds wonderful, but nowhere near me, right?

There are now “the true story” vids of an interview with the farmer being posted. Not watched yet but can’t help but feel it’ll be very one sided and lack facts about the OP’s complaint

And 😂 at your last paragraph

From the forums when pushed to get the balance

“The Birch’s explained they had very little explanation & a confused one in the video. We only know his first name from an online forum post and of course can’t ask Alex and Steph for his full name because of GDPR rules. If he wants to chat he can message us.”

Sadly wrong <st&dt;cattle </st&dt; pet in the wrong place,

ftfy

I hope the farmer’s business can recover from this.

😢

Me too Drac. The BBC article reports that the farmer advises ‘there was no financial incentive to having them’, so fingers crossed.
Given the above and the HSE recommendations, I’m still confused why the cattle weren’t kept on the moor, but not brought into calf ?

Apart from looking novel these cows are totally out of place aren’t they? They’re certainly not indigenous to the area. I guess they keep the gorse at bay as would any livestock.

Apart from looking novel these cows are totally out of place aren’t they? They’re certainly not indigenous to the area. I guess they keep the gorse at bay as would any livestock.

This is a local moor for local cows.

Farmer talks some rubbiah too. He’s pretending having cows up there is natural (err no, you put them there to be fattened up for meat) and that it’s their home (pretty sure they’d prefer a nice lowland meadow if you were willing to provide one).

You’re a bit hard of thinking aren’t you billybob

And suspiciously new too…….

Almost as though someone with an axe to grind has got themselves a login just for that purpose……

Best ignored.

So half of the herd had to be slaughtered and the other half sold, both of which were devastating for the farmer. I hope the complainant feels suitably pleased.
I doubt his visits with the family and dog will bring quite as much Interest as to the area as the herd did for more than 40 years.

I do have a degree of sympathy with Marcus, when you do a little of googling

https://www.irwinmitchell.com/newsandmedia/2016/december/farmer-pleads-guilty-to-health-and-safety-breaches-after-death-of-man-trampled-by-cows-jq-756661

Even Farmers Weekly gives advice

https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/business-management/health-and-safety/cattle-farmers-warned-insure-walker-injury

The farmer admitted that this wasnt the first instance, and that these were sorted out “privately”. Once reported the HSE have a duty to investigate, they made a suggestion how the farmer chose to react was his decision and his decision alone

https://www.fginsight.com/news/top-stories/walker-attacked-by-highland-cattle-after-dog-worrying-incident-42128

Advice given by the HSE

HSE advice is that, if possible, farmers should use fields or areas not used by the public when cattle are calving or have calves at foot, especially during periods of greater public use such as public or school holidays.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais17ew.pdf

Once reported the HSE have a duty to investigate, they made a suggestion how the farmer chose to react was his decision and his decision alone

Agreed.

So half of the herd had to be slaughtered and the other half sold, both of which were devastating for the farmer.

The responsibility for this decision lies with the farmer and no-one else.

Not at all – I just understand that the Peak District shouldn’t be about tourism and idiocy above landowners’ welfare. A better solution would be to close the moor to everyone while the cattle are with calves. So somebody who understands nothing about livestock complains to the authorities because his Sunday had been spoiled. The problem with the Peak District is that it is rammed full of people who think that their weekend mission is more important than anything else. As someone born and raised in the Peak District, I think the most annoying thing about the place is an over saturation of self righteous weekenders determined to exercise’their rights’ regardless of the impact on everyone else. If you don’t understand livestock – go to an urban park and leave the countryside to the grown ups.

I stand by my comment about you being hard of thinking, clearly not read anything on this thread.

Or read any HSE guidance

Billybobs.

What do you prefer componentry-wise? Are you a SRAM or Shimano man?

Or wheel size? Where do you stand on that?

Or (engage amateur sleuth mode) just someone who has no interest in mountain biking and has just got yourself a login today to have a pop and stir the pot a bit?

Just to recap, the OP to this thread was on foot with a dog, no bike involved.

I’ve read it all. There is plenty of Peak District to go at, if one doesn’t understand farming, which shaped and keeps the place looking so spectacular, stay away. Don’t blithely cause friction because of your inflexible determination to stick with a pre determined agenda. People’s livelihoods should not be poor at risk because the general public keep demanding more rights. Farm animals are unpredictable – should they be removed from the Peak District altogether so that self righteous leisure seekers don’t have to walk/cycle/dick about elsewhere…? I think not.

Morons don’t bother with facts when they can disprove their Ill informed opinions

See brexit voters

Billy, look up the impacts of foot and mouth and you’ll understand why maintaining access (legally ensrined rights dontchaknow) is considered more valuable to rural economies than farming nowadays. Without rural tourism places like the Peaks would be stuffed.

You’re being utterly ridiculous, and again showing you really haven’t read what has been said on here

Billy Bob read the HSE guidance to farmers.

SRAM, 29″ – ideally steel framed. WTF has it got to do with cycling? It’s a topic about whether people are capable of taking responsibility for their own actions and not running to the authorities just because an animal looked at them in a funny way. It took years to get the countryside opened up to the benefit of everyone and that created a delicate balance with landowners. As far as I’m concerned, visitors take second place in that relationship.

What absolute toss. The Peak district doesn’t look the way that it does because of a the price of a few cups of tea and some scones. Tourism is completely over-blown propaganda touted by the Peak park authority to justify their ridiculous jobs and it just happens to support people’s obsession with exercising ‘their rights’ – you are frankly clueless. I know literally hundreds of farmers in Derbyshire and not one of them recognises tourism as a panacea for the rural economy.

Luckily for wider society you’re wrong. The balance is in favour of access to the countryside where unsafe and avoidable farming practices are outlawed.

Hahaha youre priceless. Your farmers sound a lot like the shooting and hunting communities who have also failed to get with the times and are now being forced to. Rural communities do also include non farmers by the way, farming is in a minority.

Billybob;

what should the OP have done in your opinion? Given others had also had similar experiences and the farmer dealt with them privately but the herd was left there, is it not reasonable to think that more should be / have been done?

I take your point that closing RoW’s crossing livestock fields would be a solution but in the absence of that happening, and the risk thus remaining, does someone have to be injured first?

The figures tend to disagree

http://www.derbyshiredales.gov.uk/your-council/news-and-publications/latest-news/2083-peak-tourism-economy-continues-to-thrive

Farmers seem to do pretty well out of tourism
– YNot Festival
– Eroica
– Horse Trials / Game Fair
– Farmers Market
– Bakewell Show depends on tourists
– numerous camp sites / camping barns / B&B

CSB – you’re the uninformed here. You’ve already decided that highland cattle which originate on Moorland and rough grazing can exist happily on lowland meadows which are far too rich for them. And why? So that you can peddle across said Moor and try to impress your mates without any dirty cows to contend with? And this wider society – is that your MTB community that you are referring to? Because you don’t speak for the generations of people who live and have created/maintained this environment for hundreds of years. You probably think the Moors are entirely natural too don’t you? You may find that the openness you crave for your hobby becomes significantly more constrained in the future as landowners seem to take legitimate steps to protect their livelihoods following the Baslow edge debacle. That will be karma taking effect….

As far as I’m concerned, visitors take second place in that relationship.

That must include your good self, of course.

Very difficult to define who is a ‘visitor’ in any situation. How would we deal with Dark Peak / White Peak crossover?

Technically you could be said to be a ‘visitor’ anywhere after you leave your front door.

Or is this a ‘local’ line of argument?

I didn’t want to get drawn into this debate but feel I have to. In many respects I agree with all that billybobs says. The countryside, whether a national park, just your average farmland area, or the wild savanna of Africa, is a place where you go either to make a living, or to have some sort of recreational experience. If the latter then you have to accept a large amount of personal responsibility for your actions. The countryside is NOT a theme park for your amusement. Walking through the shop floor of a farmer where dangerous and unpredictable machinery is operating (cattle), the responsibility for your safety should fall to you, not the owner of the cattle. If you were climbing on Stanage Edge and a hold pulled resulting in injury, would you get HSE to follow that up with the landowner? Fair enough if the farmer had asked you to go that way as an employee, then that is when they should be involved.
I know all about having a duty of care to the public etc, but at the end of the day the first duty of care should be to yourself via a far greater degree of personal responsibility for all your actions. Unless someone is forcing you to do something/making you do something as part of your employment, then when shit happens to you, then it is first and foremost your fault. Stop looking for others to blame.

*pedal

Actually to some extent moors are more natural than fields

And this wider society – is that your MTB community that you are referring to?

You may find that the openness you crave for your hobby becomes significantly more constrained in the future

Lots of ‘you’ and ‘your’ creeping in now. By the way, given that this whole issue was about someone on foot with a dog, what does mountain biking have to do with it?

The Peak district doesn’t look the way that it does because of a the price of a few cups of tea and some scones. Tourism is completely over-blown propaganda touted by the Peak park authority to justify their ridiculous jobs and it just happens to support people’s obsession with exercising ‘their rights’ – you are frankly clueless.

And yet tourism is worth a great deal more to the economy of the Peak District than farming. So basically landowners and their tenants are in reality stewarding the attraction from year to year, primarily for the benefit of visitors. The illusion of rural agriculture is in reality subsidised up to the eyeballs by the very bureaucrats you profess to hate.