Hey toppers, are all football lovers morons?
Or just the ones that surround you?

is it (slebrity) boxing on ice?

hairychested, please tell me you're a programme director at ITV

Lots of these comments just come across as pure chav/oik/other working class stereotype bashing.

Football is a huge part of the (English)national identity, one of the few things that our post modern society can cling to without guilt or neccessary self reflection. Of course, sporting ritual as it may happen in other cultures of the world will be looked upon with wonder and facsination by the chattering classes but put those same values and social actions into the context of the English football fans and it spawns vilification, condemnation and even anti Anglo racism from some quarters.

If you don't like it or as is quite obvious from some comments, you just don't understand it, then fine, its not a national requirement that everyone does. I just don't understand what gain might come from public displays of ignorance on the subject.

Watch, what in my opinion is among the most skilled game in the world & you won't have any violence from fans!

Actually your'e right. I remember a game where a fan whacked a player who was in the penalty box & the player climbed over the plexiglass & whacked him back!
Twas a bit Cantona-ish.

some are. some aren't. then again the same can be said for cyclists. to be honest i was being flippant. if its what you like the fair enough. its not for me to say either way. most of my mates aren't interested in it either. it does however annoy me the massive police pressence that is necessary every time my local football team play at home. all to prevent those that are morons from beating the crap out of each other.

it does however annoy me the massive police pressence that is necessary every time my local football team play at home. all to prevent those that are morons from beating the crap out of each other.

There was 100's of coppers at the Dalby Wc and Pickering street race was that to keep us mtb folk from kicking the crap out of roadie's 😉

probably. they deserve it though. stupid skinny wheels.

it does however annoy me the massive police pressence that is necessary every time my local football team play at home. all to prevent those that are morons from beating the crap out of each other.

Football pays a huge bill for it's own policing, unlike some other mass events. I think you're on a very sticky wicket if you're trying to portray football as negative to the economy.

where they on horses with riot gear on? thats what we get every other saturday round here.

dude who mentioned the economy?! it is not very pleasant experience is all im saying. i dont deny the football clubs pay for it and that football is a perfectly legitimate and acceptable form of entertainment. so called football fans kicking off causing the necessity for riot police all over the town centre on match day does not make for a relaxing shopping trip is all. despite my previous ill advised tongue in cheek comment which i later retracted i dont have anything against foootball or the sensible fans that support it, i just get annoyed by the need for such massive preventative measure needed for the few. 😀

trailmonkey – Member

it does however annoy me the massive police pressence that is necessary every time my local football team play at home. all to prevent those that are morons from beating the crap out of each other.

Football pays a huge bill for it's own policing, unlike some other mass events.

Who cares about who pays for the policing – the point is, WHY is it necessary?

I was in Cardiff on Saturday, watching Wales get beaten by SA. 60,000 fans of both teams mixing and drinking together all day, and I saw FIVE police in the streets. I'm sure there were more, but they weren't a heavy presence.

Prob Police policy, Regarless of event the Police come out in mass to control ANY crowd.

There will be more at a Derby match eg City Vs United etc, but there will be no less at football international than a rugby international.

Who cares about who pays for the policing – the point is, WHY is it necessary?

Singlespeed_Shep +1

Singlespeed_Shep – Member
but there will be no less at football international than a rugby international.

They must have been hiding in IKEA then, because they certainly weren't on the streets..

So in Wales they send 5 coppers to deal with 60,000 people?

🙄

Read what I said Shep – it certainly wasn't the amount that you'd get at a football international.

Just for you:

Proof, if ever it were needed, that rugby is a thug's game played by gentlemen, comes with the knowledge that Bath and Bristol rugby clubs had no police presence inside their grounds last season.

They both paid nothing to the boys in blue, although Gloucester RFC paid more than £5,500

Whereas the Swans for instance have vanloads of police all around the stadium and station.

i've been to football games and i've been to rugby games and there is never anywhere near the police presence at a rugby game, international or league. and those that are there aren't dressed like they're going into battle either. but like i said before, its the few that spoil it for the many.

Like i said before there will be more police at derby (city vs united or in simple terms ones that are likely to spark up a riot.)football matches on a whole, but there is no way 5 coppers will turn up to deal with a crowd of 60,000 people.

The minimum numbers of police per head at a match or what ever will have to be met, regardless of weither it is Rugby or Football, The extra force will depend on the risk assesment,

Also the police are very rarely inside the stadium at a football match that side of things is kept to the stewards until suitable force from the police is needed.

Singlespeed_Shep – Member
Like i said before there will be more police at derby (city vs united or in simple terms ones that are likely to spark up a riot.)football matches on a whole, but there is no way 5 coppers will turn up to deal with a crowd of 60,000 people.

IdleJon – Member

and I saw FIVE police in the streets. I'm sure there were more, but they weren't a heavy presence.
🙄

the minimum number of police for any event will be set by the risk assessment as will the extra force. and surely the point here is that the risk assessment for a football match warrants both the presence and the preparation for force. you never hear of a disturbance at a rugby match but all to often at football matches.

I'm actually starting to laugh at this whole arguement and think is it actually going anywhere, because i feel like now i'm trying to defend football.

I don't know enough about this subject i'm just voicing my opinions. As diferent as they be, I'm from York i see the same police attendance at the football and the rugby simply because 30 people go to the matches and there are about 50 coppers in York,

im only posting to avoid college work. maybe i should crack on with it and stop posting about stuff i dont really care that much about. come on england!!!!!! maybe if we win it we can start living in the present rather than harping on about a 40 year old victory. 😯

Football pays a huge bill for it's own policing, unlike some other mass events. I think you're on a very sticky wicket if you're trying to portray football as negative to the economy.

Get your facts straight. Football pays for the policing inside the ground. The policing outside the ground comes out of the public purse, hence given the amount of police required doubtless costs more to the public in policing costs than any other sporting event. Meanwhile which economy is it that football has such a +ve influence on? Rupert Murdoch, Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand et al certainly aren't complaining, but does it really pay back enough to general society to cover its costs?

Football is the safety net of conversation for blokes.

Except it's not if you have no interest, and it is somewhat irritating when's its assumed that you do. I'm feeling quite proud that I've now developed such a level of disinterest that I hadn't even realised the latest England match was on until after it happened, and I haven't a clue when their WC games are on (or even who they're playing). Must go and look it up so I know when to schedule a nice road ride where I can guarantee not to get cut up by anybody.

The thing is, I actually quite like watching sport, even sports I don't do and have no intention of doing. I mean I can even manage to watch golf if I've nothing better to do. However I've tried watching football, and most of the time it seems to be deadly dull (not as dull as watching MTB racing, but nobody claimed that was a spectator sport). Is it only the tribalism which makes it interesting.

Get your facts straight.

From http://www.parliament.co.uk

A report from the Home Affairs Committee says Football Clubs should continue to pay for all policing on their "footprint………….where it can be shown – using evidence which is shared with the clubs – that the police are incurring costs beyond the club’s footprint, this should also be met by the club.

My facts are straight.

Furthermore, it would seem that football, no doubt due to the long waged war upon it and media hysteria, is paying beyond that which is neccesary :-

The Committee expressed concern that the police had not recognised how much investment clubs have put into safety and do not seem to provide a proportionate deployment to the perceived threat, particularly at lower league grounds. The Committee says it doubts the necessity of deploying up to 150 police officers on top of the hundreds of stewards at an event when there are only an average of 1.2 arrests at a match

As for :-

Meanwhile which economy is it that football has such a +ve influence on?……..does it really pay back enough to general society to cover its costs?

I don't honestly believe that you feel that football costs society more than the revenue that will be generated by merchandising, beer sales, av equipment sales etc just by the world cup, let alone the perpetual revenue of domestic and european games.

But given that you seem unaware of other realities regarding the game, it's hardly suprising.

My facts are straight.

It would seem not. Apart from you not even being able to give the right URL for where you got your "facts", did you realise that what you are quoting is the report of a committee on "The Cost of Policing Football Matches" which includes what they recommend should be the case in the future (about time too)? Not even a new law, just a recommendation for a new law or new policies and rules, certainly not something which is in place at the moment. Now I wonder where I'd find what the current arrangements actually are…
Here's a URL to help you out:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmhaff/676/67603.htm#a2

the provision of "consequential policing" outside a football match, for example at a railway station or in the city centre, is currently the responsibility of the police and is provided at their discretion and at a cost to them. Clubs do not have to pay for this "extra" service. This has led to a disparity between what the police estimate the total cost of policing a football match to be, and what the clubs currently pay. In the season 2007-08 it is estimated that the policing of 13 Premier League football clubs cost the police £3.2 million in consequential policing. This difference must be met by the taxpayer.

Furthermore, it would seem that football, no doubt due to the long waged war upon it and media hysteria, is paying beyond that which is neccesary

Nothing to do with past history of trouble then, all the fault of the meeja? Strange how football has had a "long waged war" on troublemakers when other sports haven't – how unfair is that?

It was you who brought up the economy thing – I acknowledge it does bring in a lot of money – I was just questioning where that money went (mostly into the pockets of those I mentioned before, which doesn't seem hugely beneficial to society as a whole). Though are you suggesting that people do actually drink more beer solely because of football?

these football threads always end up with the egg chasing crowd proclaiming that there's 'never any trouble and therefore no need for many police at a rugby match' etc.

THIS IS BECAUSE THE GAME OF RUGBY IS RATHER DULL AND THE FANS CAN'T BE ARSED EVEN STANDING UP DURING IT, NEVER MIND HAVING A DING-DONG. OH AND THEY ONLY SEEM TO SING ONE SONG AS WELL.

It would seem not. Apart from you not even being able to give the right URL for where you got your "facts", did you realise that what you are quoting is the report of a committee on "The Cost of Policing Football Matches" which includes what they recommend should be the case in the future (about time too)? Not even a new law, just a recommendation for a new law or new policies and rules, certainly not something which is in place at the moment

Apologies, my link was faulty however, it's quite clear from the quote that we are talking present tense not purely reccomendations for the future :

A report from the Home Affairs Committee says Football Clubs should continue to pay for all policing on their "footprint

Feel free to ignore any evidence that doesn't suit your agenda.

the provision of "consequential policing" outside a football match, for example at a railway station or in the city centre, is currently the responsibility of the police and is provided at their discretion and at a cost to them

Obviously outside of football's footprint. There comes a point whereby it's an issue for football and an issue for society. But that's always been the stance hasn't it, deflect society's problems onto football – they're not just hooligans, they're football hooligans, as if these people would be peace loving hippies if football didn't exist. 🙄

Not a big fan of any team sports but the popularity of football really does baffle me.

I love it when some bloke mentions "the football" – I take pride in not knowing a thing about it.

Yes I find rugby more interesting (and used to play a fair bit) but it's still not exactly riveting.

I just think football attracts cowardly chavs that like to think they're "hard" by hanging around in huge groups intimidating individuals. Very sad.

Obviously outside of football's footprint

But still only needed because there's a football match on and the people needing policing are football "fans". Otherwise why do they need more police than on a normal day when there's not a match on? As I said in the first place, "Football pays for the policing inside the ground. The policing outside the ground comes out of the public purse"

deflect society's problems onto football – they're not just hooligans, they're football hooligans, as if these people would be peace loving hippies if football didn't exist

Well there is this strange coincidence between football matches and trouble. Do you really think there's no relation at all between the two?

oh cool, a football thread

what did i miss?

A bunch of people who've never put in the effort to play or learn to understand football whinging and whining about how much they hate it.

I hate EastEnders.
But I don't cry like a girl and post my tedious mewling all over the internet every time it's on the telly.

Well, I've been out and bought myself a fancy new big television ready for the world cup 8) Now, when theres a match on, instead of having to endure all the obnoxious idiots in the pub, and the football bores who have to micro analyse everything, I can stop at home and watch a movie in peace 😛

A bunch of people who've never put in the effort to play or learn to understand football

I understand the offside rule. Doesn't make football any better to watch, or mean I'm any more interested in which overpaid prima-donna has fallen over.

I just think football attracts cowardly chavs that like to think they're "hard" by hanging around in huge groups intimidating individuals. Very sad.

You're probably right about a very, very small minority of people who call themselves football supporters.

I assure you that your description does not describe me, a match-going football supporter, or any of my mates.

ive bought a new tv too, that gives me the option to watch the footy with on the huge screen in the pub garden with the smokers for a bit of a lively time but then i can come home and watch the highlights from the comfort of my armchair

im not jealous of how much someone else earns, you cant really in my line of work
im also not stupid enough to think that football is an easy game with no risk of injury

bring it on.

I don't care… And I am so looking forward to france being kick out before the end of the first round.

not sure i share your optimism juan, being half oirish, i would love to see it.

A bunch of people who've never put in the effort to play or learn to understand football whinging and whining about how much they hate it.

If a bunch of retarded school drops out (most players) can "learn" the rules them I'm sure we can pick them up pretty quickly.

1) Run up and down a patch of grass kicking a ball
2) Try and kick it in the big white netty thing at the opposite end
3) Fall over if a fly hits you. Then cry.
4) Somehow persuade 90% of males that this is worth spending billions on
5) Somehow persuade every newspaper to cover this 5x more than anything
else
6) Insult anyone who dares not to "join in."
7) Squander millions in Police resources
8 ) Flog tatty kit for 4 x what it should cost
9) Convince everyone you're in some big "tribe."
10) Shout at the TV about wrong decisions – so why are you not a football manager/player if you're so "right?"

A bunch of people who've never put in the effort to play or learn to understand football whinging and whining about how much they hate it.

I'm actually not that bad at football, I am also good at Hockey and Cricket. All three sports I have minimal interest in.
The main factor is I don't enjoy them, it comes more naturally to me than others.

Conversely the same with many football fans- they LOVE the game with a passion but most fans will be average at the game.

You don't have to be good at a sport that you like. I'm average on a bike- doesn't mean I don't love it.

If I enjoyed Cricket I would have had a career in the sport. However I couldnt help but almost fall over with boredom practicing relentlessly in the nets!!