Is there really much difference in speed and efficiency?

Giving it a go shortly, wondered how others get on.

Dodgy knee/back and SPD’s don’t mix too well at the mo.

I don’t think the losses would be hugely significant?
No more comedy slides on tiled floors, either.

I think clipped bin is much more efficient & comfy, my 5-10s make my feet ache after about 15 miles, however this time of year my feet are warmer for longer in my vxi’s. This is on a hybridised 29er HT though so it doesn’t look completely weird

be careful cornering.

Dodgy knee/back and SPD’s don’t mix too well at the mo

I’ve always found this an odd assertion.

For me when riding flats once my foot was placed on the pedal there was no rotational ‘give’ other than my foot moving within the stationary shoe. After a while you can see that you end up with sole wear where the shoe has been trying to rotate but the pins have stopped it.

With an clipped pedal like Time or Crank Bros my shoe is free to rotate around the cleat quite a lot during a crank revolution. I find this is much less harsh on my knees.

It’s almost worse with a road bike and flats as you rarely lift your foot off to get a new position.

sorry OP, not saying you should ride clipped, just interested in the bio-mechanics of flats v clips.

I’m fine for comfort on flats, oddly.

Get a sore spot on my foot using SPD’s which gets really annoying after a good few hours on the road.
I’m sure stiffer soles would help, but all the really stiff shoes seem to be race type only.

I find I need to stand up regularly, shuffle more and change foot position often to alleviate ache.

Flats allow me to move my foot to more natural position, so I don’t aggravate my dogdy knee!

Are you using mtb spd pedals? If so, it’s all about the smaller contact point. Road clipless spread the load more, reducing hot spots/pressure points.

to reinforce CF’s point;

[edit] although you may have less ‘play’ with some of the road pedal/cleat combo’s.

I had dodgy knees and went to flats off road for a while as a result (this was before flats were fashionable). I found they were more comfortable, possibly because the foot position was relatively random, so even if it was wrong, it was unlikely to be wrong for more than a few minutes.

IIRC the figures quoted were 15% losses compared to toeclips and 15% again to SPD’s, though that was based on runing shoes with thick foam soles which absorb a lot of power, 5.10’s feel much better.

Yup, MTB SPD’s.
Used them off road and on for yonks, on road only for a while now.

On a commuter/everyday bike, so road SPD’s are out.

I need more movement than SPD’s can give at the mo.

Good point about rotational movement with planted flats.
I’ve only used flats off road, perhaps loser shoes, more stops and positional changes compensate?

Try switching to time then, Rusty.

More float, far better for your knees. Also, for commuting, they’re bombproof!

Perhaps one of the platform type enduro ones would help further spread the pressure. Failing that, get the stiffest shoe you can.

By way of illustration, I use Time XC8s (mtb and small) on my Diverge, and Spesh S-Works XC8S shoes. The latter use the same sole unit as their top end road shoes, so are plenty comfy but I can still walk a bit in them.

Have you tried Time pedals? Lots more float than SPD’s. I’ve used them for over 20 years now after knee trouble, and never had an occurrence.

Edit – or what Flashy said. I got some Times for about £25 recently in a small group buy from a euro seller, given cleats are about £15 thats not bad!

This video is relevant to your interests:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNedIJBZpgM[/video]

If it’s on a commuter then I wouldn’t hesitate for a minute swapping to flats if you think it will help.

There is no noticeable efficiency difference for any type of pedals. It’s all just anecdotes and old wives tales. You’ll be fastest when you’re most comfortable, so just use what is most comfortable.

Couple of papers on the subject mentioned in here, though you have to google to find the pdfs. http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/14059/are-there-any-scientific-studies-proving-the-benefits-of-clipless-pedal-systems

For me when riding flats once my foot was placed on the pedal there was no rotational ‘give’ other than my foot moving within the stationary shoe. After a while you can see that you end up with sole wear where the shoe has been trying to rotate but the pins have stopped it.

^^This is my experience with flats,where as SPD float allowed the foot to find its ‘best’ position.
I have never had any pedal related knee problems but a lot of friends using road pedals did, so I stuck with SPDS.

I have never used anything but mtb type SPDs ,and as long as you have a decent,stiff soled shoe,I can’t imagine that the size of the clip in area would make any difference,or cause hot spots.

I ride flats on the road.

Tried spds and got some knee problems. I knacked my right ankle years ago and it settled with a bit of a toe out stance. looking at pin wear on my shoes, I spend most of my time at the same angle, but with an inch or more forward and backward movement. I do shuffle back and forth a bit depending on if I’m out of the saddle, climbing seated, tootling along…

Don’t know what it costs me efficiency wise over being clipped in I think I’ve got a decent pedal stroke, but who knows? I don’t. And I’m not about to pay anyone to tell me. I averaged 20mph over the shortened, rainy London Ride thing the year before last. flat course but horrible conditions. Went for the barefoot merrell running shoes that day rather than my usual suede 5.10 dirtbags. I don’t know what the dry weight difference is, but the sopping wet difference would have been significant!

Edit: I’m not a serious roadie, bike is 24lbs steel cross tourer type thing

Ive been using spd forever and am pretty crap on flats. A lot of the issues people have is due to poor set-up, not getting the cleat pointing at the right angle. However an additional issue many miss is shimming the shoe on an angle to suit the ’tilt’ of the foot, you can get shims for this but they are not common. However, taking that a step further some people have/need a lot of movement in the tilt/roll direction in their foot while pedalling, which a tight stiff spd shoe cant really accommodate, loosening off the straps can help but obviously not ideal and a move to flats may be preffered.

I had this with a bad knee for a while a few years back, as i was running dual sided pedals on my commuter i ended up riding with one foot clipped the other not to give my knee a rest.

I do agree with the comment on restricted movement of flats when using 5.10 etc. really feel it in the knees afterwards (especially as you tend to run your foot further forward than spd pedals, so i seem to lose some ankle twist also).

Thanks for the responses folks.

Use M520/540 pedals on the road bikes and always had hotspots after about 40 miles, no matter what type of shoe I’ve tried – never had the uber stiff race shoes though, more the trail/touring/mid range MTB type.

Will be trying these M33’s

with the flats.

I’ve used them as emergency MTB shoes with flats for a while and they grip pretty well but still allow some freedom of movement.
Just as stiff as the other Shimano Trail type shoes I’ve tried, so I reckon they’ll be comfy enough with flats on the road.

Looking at the other options mentioned too, thanks.
Time look interesting.

As above try Time pedals with decently stiff shoes. M520 are grotty pedals for road use IME, as they offer poor support.

I’mn thinking I will have another go with clippy pedals at some point, and times are the ones I’d go for. The MX ones with decent support for the shoe either side.

having clipless shoes properly fitted with foot correction (custom footbed with tuned arch support and varus/valgus shims) and set up to suit your physiology makes a massive difference to your riding experience; especially if you have previous injury history or typical anatomical differences between left/right sides

properly setup shoes/pedals with less float can be huge beneficially in controlling knee tracking and preventing further injury stresses

With an clipped pedal like Time or Crank Bros my shoe is free to rotate around the cleat quite a lot during a crank revolution. I find this is much less harsh on my knees.

I like the sound of this. I ride flats but I’ve experimented with Shimano SPD’s. I always get knee pain after a long day out.

I think I’ll try some Mallets when I’ve got the cash.

having clipless shoes properly fitted with foot correction (custom footbed with tuned arch support and varus/valgus shims) and set up to suit your physiology makes a massive difference to your riding experience; especially if you have previous injury history or typical anatomical differences between left/right sides

I wouldnt be surprised if shoes for flat pedals benefited from this also.

I use flats on the road; I don’t like fannying around with special shoes and I like walking like a normal person when I get places, that’s all really. No doubt it’s less efficient but I’m riding for fitness anyway so it doesn’t matter if I go a 10th of a mph slower.

Trying flats at the moment.

No knee problems, got duff circulation in my feet and I found clipless were giving me numb spots on longer rides. Tried some of those M33 shoes linked above thinking lace up shoes may be better than the ratchet strap things I had been using, they were better but not brilliant so have been trying my 510s with some old Wellgo B050.

So far it’s been better, the pins on the pedals are perfect for road use, they were in the spares box as they weren’t grippy enough for off road.

I’m slow enough that I don’t really care about the difference between flats and SPD 🙂

Flats on the road bike for me, same reasons as Northwind. Initially a 15 year old pair of V12s as they had reflector tabs and the pins were nice and worn. Got some El Plastiqes on now as the V12s cage started to fall apart in a scary way.
Have to remember to watch pedalling when leant over Though.

Not quite a full-on road bike, but I use flats on the SS slick-tyred commuter hack bike as my commute is short and I can’t be bothered changing shoes. Did a quick 25k spin at the weekend, averaged just shy of 20mph. Never felt like I needed to be clipped in. AM41s and V8 copy pedals.

If you want to run flats, run flats!

I found that CB Candys and a matching sole spread the weight better than the Shimano pedals I’ve tried. You can even get little shims that build up the sides a bit to make sure your soles are in contact.

The new Mallet E’s look like a fairly good compromise too.

http://www.bikejames.com/strength-training/barefoot-pedaling-flat-pedals/