Ok folks, Thought id ask here as to what to do. So in December last year I reached just shy of 85kg’s. Im only 5ft6 on a very good day and funnily enough the fact that I was only riding 10 miles a week ish meant that I was really struggling when riding with friends. So I started going to crossfit a bit and doubled my riding (times limited new baby and all those excuses)and ive dropped a bit of weight (now at 78kg) and things seem to be getting better. I feel better on the bike that’s for sure (as in more mobile).

However the fitness thing is allowing me to ride my bike instead of just sat on it. This is great and 100% more fun. However I just cant keep it up. my knees are in significant about of pain after short sections (doesn’t matter uphill or downhill). So im struggling again even though I feel a lot fitter I get to a point where I cant put a lot of pressure on both knees and I cant support my bodyweight as well, I sit down and it all goes to pot.

Now ive been to the docs, had x rays and ct scans as well as physio and its not getting any better. infact its worse. so im not sure what to do now. Im thinking that its probably down to me being quite knock kneed and thus they arnt working that well. its bloody annoying. The doc has openly said that they don’t know whats up with them and I should just put up with it.

Sooo. any tips for strengthening knees? my thinking is if I can build a bit of muscle around them they will take less time to fatigue / fail. However as im short of time atm and find things like squats painful im unsure of what to try. I cant do things like pistols so is it just a case of pressing on and manning up till I can?

Any thoughts?

Stop going to the gym. Go see a sports physio or similar professional who knows what they are doing. A lot of the NHS staff are just general practitioners and unless you are lucky they will have little or no interest in getting you back into sport. They just want you to stop complaining/stop being in pain.

And whats wrong with just sitting on a bike? Probably 90% of my riding is sat down.

Yep, go and see a sports therapist or physio. Forget NHS. I had a problem with my knees and luckily i found an amazing physio who very quickly diagnosed very tight ITB and surrounding muscles on my left leg pulling the kneecap slightly out of alignment rusulting in a lot of pain.

Easy peasy fix really. Foam roll and stretches. Some weight training to balance out any muscular weaknesses and voila. Fixed.

And whats wrong with just sitting on a bike? Probably 90% of my riding is sat down.

your bike can’t work properly over rough ground if your arse is passive on the saddle.

OP – clips or flats? saddle height OK? HT or FS?

I find shorter cranks help my knees!! I’m 5’4″ tall and have a completely knackered right knee from skiing.

I use 165mm cranks and it definitely helps me. I appreciate everybody’s different, but it might be worth looking into using shorter cranks!

I found that climbing on the bike out of the saddle but just backed off slightly so I am having to spin rather than grind worked well for me at strengthening the knee area.

Bought a drop bar bike just so I can get a better position to climb than I would on the mtb.

After a few weeks of that I was a lot more ‘bouncy’ when I went for a run.

Now I have a wahoo kickr and do 30 mins or so out of the saddle to get the same effect.

Used to use a stepper machine but this I think powers up the thighs more than around the knees. The spinning on the bike standing means I am supporting my weight and ‘pulling’ up on the peddles more.

If you have a staircase at work you can also use this – we have 15 steps top to bottom at work and I do this as many times as I can before I detect that I am about to sweat.

Some useful stuff on here

Aye, proper sports physio, shorter cranks and flat pedals.

And not flat pedals…

your bike can’t work properly over rough ground if your arse is passive on the saddle

Yes, and a good proportion of most peoples riding is on ground that is no way near rough enough to make a difference.

As Del suggests, look at the bike, saddle hight and seat position, a friend of a friend asked me a similar question about his wife 5 or more years ago, she’s Always biked he said she knows what she’s doing,

She turned up in an old pair of cycling shoes and straps on cages on the old style pedals, after she’d spent a couple of hundred quid on pedals cleats and shoes she was happy and him not so, that. Early finished her cycling and it was something that minor, I’d definitely go see a specific sports physio though and take glucosamine tablets and some udo’s oil. I’m still not sure if it works or not but taking that and not thinking about it generally works for me.

Ever tried yoga? Can help to balance out muscles, improve flexibility and core strength.

im on flats. gone from 175 cranks to 170 and its made a bit of difference tbh. Definitely spinning more up hills but its harder to get the power down when I get stuck.

Any recommendations for a sports physio in the hudds / Halifax area? Ill give that a go. However im sceptical as the ones at elland spire didn’t seem to be bothered.

She turned up in an old pair of cycling shoes and straps on cages on the old style pedals, after she’d spent a couple of hundred quid on pedals cleats and shoes she was happy and him not so, that nearly finished her cycling and it was something that minor

You could have just set the existing equipment up properly. It’s not rocket science.

btw tried clips and while I can see they are good, they hurt. I think my knee rotates a little when pedalling and the cleats (on the loosest setting) felt like they were twisting my knee.

Are your knees painful all the time or just biking?

If just biking, then there is something wrong with your bike set up.

+ if it is only on the bike, lay off the bike for a bit and give your knees time to recover

My knees improved when I started doing sea swimming with swim fins.

Getting up / down stairs is also becoming an issue.

I think Sowerby Brothers in Mirfield do bike fit and also work with a local physio (Mirfield Protherapy). Maybe give them a call?

Do your knees ever give way? Meniscal tear maybe?

Spin- keep you cadence between 70rpm and 100, aim for 85ish but don’t go below 70.
Core- get a some time with a physio, he/she will tell give you some moves to strengthen your core, its rule #1.

good luck.

Do you ride a boingy bike with your arse hanging off the back like so many I see? That may be your problem; so often people have their seats too low.

If you found your knee rotates a little when pedalling going to flats may not allow any foot movement. A good set of flats with some pin in them and sticky shoes will not allow any foot movement.

Whereas some clips allow quite a few degrees of float. Eggbeaters for example have quite a bit of float.

Also try moving the cleat back towards the heel, its position makes a big difference to power, which muscles you use and how you ride.

Getting up / down stairs is also becoming an issue.

ok, that sounds like a doctor issue then.

How much of an issue – a bit out of breath and lactic or really struggling?

nothing out of breath at all. no lactic issues. like someone driving nails through my knees type pain.

TBH ive had it for years.

If you’re knock kneed; get some arch support. Probably lots of it. A podiatrist will be able to advise better. There are some good cycling insoles available off the shelf though.

Also, something like this might be worth a look. My mate has some sort of heel/over pronation issues. Gave her a bit of this to stick in the heel of her running shoe and she said it was better!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eva-Wedge-Strips-Designed-for-Use-with-Moulded-Insoles-/201344941507?var=&hash=item2ee117fdc3:m:mln_N52leztRDYhg9m_h-3w

Getting up / down stairs is also becoming an issue.

A classic symptom of Patellofemoral pain syndrome (runners’ knee). Something I have had for a few years and manage with a combination of foam rollering, stretching and periodic (and rather painful) sports massage.

PFPS on Wikipedia

Interesting point about flats and intensely grippy shoes.
Have ridden in Teva Links for about four years, my second pair was starting to get a bit worn, so, I have bought 5.10 Freeriders.
There have been a few threads over time about which is the grippiest flat shoe.
Whereas the Teva sole doesn’t let go, it stays on the pedal very well, it does allow a slight twist within the sole material, giving probably no more than a degree or so of movement. The 5.10 seems far less able to allow me to twist heels in or out, even a small amount.
Having had both knees dislocate and some ligament damage over the last 20 years, through non riding accidents. I have had to be careful about building musculature back up to protect from further damage.
What I have noticed though is that if I do more than say, 20 miles offroad in the 5.10 I do get some aches, similar to issue I had when rebuilding knee strength. No probs at all in the Tevas. Or at less miles in the 5.10.
Don’t know what shoes you use, but possibly worthy of note.

Get a proper diagnosis. I’ve had knee problems, after guess work and trying suggestions i visited a consultant (via bupa). Now 99.9% better (like you, let it go on for years, pain on stairs)