Far right attempting to subvert the farmers protests in London.

I’ve never heard anyone pleading a unique case for scaffolders

Don’t mess with scaffolders they’re all of their tits on gak – there you go unique case pleaded 🙂

I also think the government has got this right – the tax rules should apply fairly to all.  If it means some very rich people now need to pay more tax then that is a good thing.

I’m sure they will be finding various loop holes to avoid paying –

I found the winter fuel decision much more troubling – that will hit many people who were genuinely on the border of hardship.  Didn’t see thousands of pensioners in their zimmer frames out protesting (if we did I missed it).

If the government didn’t move on winter fuel, I can’t see them moving on this, however its a real test as its influential and rich people being hit this time

It’s really interesting reading this thread.

My job is farming adjacent and so my LinkedIn feed, and that chat of my colleagues is how terrible this decision is, how badly thought out it is and how much damage it’ll do. This thread seems to very much lean in the opposite direction.

Really interesting seeing how someone who only sees one side of the view point can think that everyone thinks like them when in reality that’s not the case.

I’m hoping (probably naïvely) that this might mark a shift towards taxing people on wealth and assets instead of purely on income from doing frightful things like actually working for a living.

Its been skewed in the wrong direction for far too long. It’s now far more financially beneficial to just own stuff – in this case large swathes of the countryside – as the rich know that unearned wealth won’t be taxed at anywhere near the same rate as earned income. Even now the rate they’re being asked to pay is only 50% of what anyone else would have to stump up

Why is supporting british farmers political?

Supporting farmers is fine. I’m totally happy for them to do that.  But posting a cretinous message directly aligning themselves against something that a political party is currently doing…

is wrong.

They’re not supporting farmers. They’re supporting a rich, manipulative, powerful subset of the country which is using warped messages to try to get the herd on their side to prolong the status quo of inequality.

“blessed with attributes that none of us could ever aspire to”

They are – tax free assets.

“I’ve never heard anyone pleading a unique case for scaffolders”

I guess there just aren’t enough Dukes and Lords on the poles…

Inheritance tax should apply to all or none. No one type of business has more or less right to family continuity, in this case it does start to look like the fight of the landed classes and that list of Dukes is telling.

Farms are vital businesses with an impact on the countryside, tax them like businesses and offer support/benefits for them to do things that benefit the countryside.

If those businesses aren’t profitable they need to put prices up. Supply and demand will take care of it if they are all as vital as they say they are (I don’t doubt it btw). We then pay more for our food. But if they’re quoting 1% profitability, costs won’t need to rise that much to benefit farmers – the impact at supermarket price would be within general fluctuations we’ve seen before.

If supermarkets (etc) aren’t paying enough, focus blame on supermarkets – they also get to pay staff low wages that can be topped up by in-work benefits – i.e. a big business subsidy. Supermarkets seem to be disproportionately profitable in this relationship.

My job is farming adjacent and so my LinkedIn feed, and that chat of my colleagues is how terrible this decision is, how badly thought out it is and how much damage it’ll do.

Many of those will be following the herd and won’t have done the sums that Dan Neidle has showing that it’s only the very well off, single farmer that will hit the £1million limit quite quickly. Like Clarkson yesterday they’re bandying around un-calculated nonsense because 89% of those statistics are made up on the spot (even I’m not immune). 🙂

What I’m getting sick of is the patronising twoddle from farmers, landowners, Tory MPs and their media cheerleaders is how we ‘don’t understand’ the ways of salt of the earth countryside types. As if they’re some kind of separate (and superior)  race, blessed with attributes that none of us could ever aspire too.

Makes a change* from the patronising twaddle a century or two or twenty back about how The Poor ‘dont’ understand’ the ways of The Royalty and The Gentry (Who Are Appointed by God Himself to Rule Over The Poor, God Save The King). As if they were some kind of separate (and superior) race, blessed with attributes that none of us could ever aspire to.

* it doesn’t.

Why are normal working people taken by this absolute nonsense?
Because they aren’t very bright

Or maybe because they don’t have the information to know what they should believe because the news outlets are giving a very skewed set of opinions. Most people don’t know any farmers at all. Most people don’t need to know about any sort of inheritance taxes. Most people don’t know how big a ‘farm’ is, or who owns them, or how food gets to their tables, or indeed which country it is actually from.

And as if to illustrate the point

You shouldn’t call people who ask you a question thick, its very unbecoming

I bet you wouldn’t think the same if a police force had put a slogan on their FB site stating that they ‘back’ asylum seekers in general after they were being threatened with having buildings burned down around them.

What is your obsession with asylum seekers?

Farmers’ protest led by most inherently unsympathetic figurehead possible

What is your obsession with asylum seekers?

I haven’t got one. You had a bee in your bonnet about Muslims in general, though. If anyone on here wants to see your views then they can refer back to the Southport Stabbings thread (I think it was).

But this is a thread about the far-right co-opting a farming protest movement.

I don’t think it needs derailing by going over old ground.

It would probably be worth the Gov or even an independent body putting a few ads on the telly setting out some simple facts around key policy decisions that affect citizens to counter the huge swathes of deliberate misinformation that is put out by vested interests.

I don’t think having a minister trying to hold a defensive line on BBC breakfast is really going to cut through the noise.

ads on the telly

Unfortunately that’s not where the action is.

Just ask Musk, Farage, Trump etc.

If supermarkets (etc) aren’t paying enough, focus blame on supermarkets – they also get to pay staff low wages that can be topped up by in-work benefits – i.e. a big business subsidy. Supermarkets seem to be disproportionately profitable in this relationship.

They have been conspicuous in keeping out of this argument. Probably because they’ve been busy trying to convince everyone that the NI rise will lead to job losses rather than smaller profits/dividends.

As with most things at the minute this has clearly become very polarised (as the thread title I guess predicted). It’s quite hard to argue that the tax loophole shouldn’t be closed, but I think the issue is that it’s been brought in quite fast. A proper consultation and developed policy should be able to address the tax issues whilst maintaining or improving viability and quality of farming. Most of this thread has descended to calling all farmers sponging tax avoiders which is hardly constructive, and is drawing drawing attention away from the likes of clarkson, Dyson and all the dukes.

It’s quite hard to argue that the tax loophole shouldn’t be closed, but I think the issue is that it’s been brought in quite fast.

April 2026 isn’t it? Is that quite fast? I suppose it is in farm timescales.

April 2026 isn’t it? Is that quite fast? I suppose it is in farm timescales.

But the policy is already being set in absolutes. It would perhaps have been wise to state that they would be reviewing how to introduce this with mitigation, then there might be fewer people out on the streets

I don’t think it needs derailing by going over old ground.

Dont bring it up then.

If anyone on here wants to see your views

You are bizarrely obsessed with my posting history, I would be flattered if it didn’t come off stalkerish. A glance at yours reveals your nonsensical rants, often addressed to the third person and always about the same thing. Odd, predictable and boring.

Most of this thread has descended to calling all farmers sponging tax avoiders which is hardly constructive, and is drawing drawing attention away from the likes of clarkson, Dyson and all the dukes.

Not really. A few people have chucked generalisations about farmers in, but the majority (who think the policy is a good thing) are specifically saying that it won’t affect ‘real’ farmers too much at all. As such, comments about the farmers who chose to go to London yesterday might be expected to veer towards disparaging in some cases because they are being manipulated to varying extents. Manipulated by the same people who have made fortunes out of manipulating people based on their unfounded fears.

When these measures come into effect, they will not have any impact on 90% of farms. These small-medium sized farms where the farmer farms (as opposed to subcontracts) will actually continue to have very generous exemptions from taxes that the rest of us have to pay.

Their instinctive anger should be focused on:

Supermarkets who screw them over but still pay huge dividends and Exec bonuses.

Wealthy tax avoiders like Dyson whose tax avoiding activity inflates land prices so possibly pushes a few more genuine farms above threshold.

The liars who promoted Brexit with its loss of subsidy and export markets.

Funnily enough, though, the last two of those are exactly the people who are Pied Pipering the real farmers – and some can’t see it.

 but I think the issue is that it’s been brought in quite fast.

But won’t effect the vast majority of them, so it doesn’t really matter how quickly its enacted. I mean if you got told that tomorrow the subsidy for Bently’s costing over £200,000 was being withdrawn and as motorists Bentley drivers were insisting that fellow car drivers come out onto the streets to protest, you’d laugh at them, right?

Most of this thread has descended to calling all farmers sponging tax avoiders

The problem is – through design – that people keep using the term ‘farmers’ instead of the actual term that should be being used… landowners

As has been pointed out numerous times, actual farmers, who get up at 5 in the morning to milk cows and stuff, won’t be affected. Sponging multimillionaire tax dodgers like Andrew Lloyd Webber and James Dyson who just bought vast swathes of land to avoid tax will be

So ****’em! We’ve been subsidising them for long enough

It would perhaps have been wise to state that they would be reviewing how to introduce this with mitigation, then there might be fewer people out on the streets

Messaging Fail Innit.

“Labour’s progressive policies will continue to economically empower the families of hardworking farmers to benefit from an effective inheritance tax break, whilst simultaneously clamping down on the rich landowners making a mockery of Britain’s working countryside folk by dodging tax when they claim that growing three potatoes and a turnip on five hundred acres makes them a farmer.”

They have been conspicuous in keeping out of this argument. Probably because they’ve been busy trying to convince everyone that the NI rise will lead to job losses rather than smaller profits/dividends.

TBF the independent convenience trade is absolutely up in arms about the changes to NI (and vaping regs). luckily my shop is too small to be affected, but I know many small independent shops who are talking about laying off staff or reducing hours.

The ACS (association of convenience stores) are talking about a seven billion cost to the  independent sector alone.

It’s a far far bigger economic issue than the farming iht changes which will affect every consumer directly.

You know,

I cannot comprehend how the [superlative]-rich can bring themselves to care. Like, you’re worth twelvety billion dollars, a law is changed when means you owe a billion in tax, you’re still worth eleventy billion. Would you even notice? What are you going to do in order to make ends meet, sell one of your yachts? There are poorer countries for ****’s sake, you could buy Madagascar and still have enough in loose change for the flight home.

I’m reminded of Rhod Gilbert:

^^^

Exactly.

Wishing harm on another person is a slope I don’t want to start on. But if someone who is worth, say, £850m stresses themselves out and has a heart attack because that might become £825m – then death by greed is not something I have much sympathy for.

TBF the independent convenience trade is absolutely up in arms about the changes to NI

Sorry, yes, I wasn’t specific enough, but I’ve posted in defence of small retailers elsewhere. Is having Tescos lead the campaign for convenience stores like having Clarkson lead the campaign for small family farmers?

I think for many people, the accumulation of wealth is the whole point. That’s certainly what seems to be the case. I agree it doesn’t make much sense to me.

It still doesn’t explain why someone owning a farm worth 10 million would continue to work 70 hours a week for pocket money rather than sell up to some other fool and enjoy their retirement. If they were really devoted to their job, well fine, but quit whining.

Is having Tescos lead the campaign for convenience stores like having Clarkson lead the campaign for small family farmers?

Basically yes. For the win it is Clarkson + Farage.

And look who turned up yesterday!

I’m starting to realise the ‘Far Right’ influence here (or at anti Palestine marches etc), the real influence rather than the Tommy-supporting oiks, isn’t about race. We’re made to think FR politics is about race but it’s not the main aim. Not anymore? It’s about power and money. The ultra-libertarian freedoms that the wealthy and powerful like that are an easy sell to down-trodden ‘hard working people’ who don’t want to be controlled, yet we all are. The ultra-libertarianism that just beats most of us down for the benefit of people who can profit most then hide the wealth in various ways. They manage to make it about your rights vs their rights in a way that race etc comes into it but really it’s all about the idea of ‘rights’ as in libertarian attitudes, deregulation etc and that’s where they get their support. So yeah, they’ll support the farmers and feed them with misinfo about how Stamer-steals-from-farmers etc. Suits the aims of the richest 0.5%. People get played, same old story.

Wishing harm on another person is a slope I don’t want to start on.

I didn’t understand my own reference in that case!

jamesoFull Member
I’m starting to realise the ‘Far Right’ influence here (or at anti Palestine marches etc), the real influence rather than the Tommy-supporting oiks, isn’t about race. We’re made to think FR politics is about race but it’s not the main aim. Not anymore? It’s about power and money. The ultra-libertarian freedoms that the wealthy and powerful like that are an easy sell to down-trodden ‘hard working people’ who don’t want to be controlled, yet we all are. The ultra-libertarianism that just beats most of us down for the benefit of people who can profit most then hide the wealth in various ways. They manage to make it about your rights vs their rights in a way that race etc comes into it but really it’s all about the idea of ‘rights’ as in libertarian attitudes, deregulation etc and that’s where they get their support. So yeah, they’ll support the farmers and feed them with misinfo about how Stamer-steals-from-farmers etc. Suits the aims of the richest 0.5%. People get played, same old story.

This is exactly right.

Is having Tescos lead the campaign for convenience stores like having Clarkson lead the campaign for small family farmers?

A little – Tesco is absolutely only campaigning for it’s own interests.

It still doesn’t explain why someone owning a farm worth 10 million would continue to work 70 hours a week for pocket money rather than sell up to some other fool and enjoy their retirement. If they were really devoted to their job, well fine, but quit whining.

Because they’re not doing it for “pocket money” – IMO they’re either outright lying or they’re thinking about ‘net pay’ like a child would in regard to their pocket money.

^This.

i also wonder why so few seem to be Limited Companies?

Is it due to the much stricter rules on accountancy etc? How it’s all in the public domain and everyone can see what the true figures are?

There is still no clear explanation of how a business asset can be worth so much, yet generate so little profit?

i also wonder why so few seem to be Limited Companies?

Had this discussion in the shop earlier with a customer. 7 year rule, ltd company and other methods to get around the iht. He reckoned it’s because if they created a ltd company it would have to pay corporation tax on profits and tax on company dividends etc which would be higher than the current self employed set up.

There is still no clear explanation of how a business asset can be worth so much, yet generate so little profit?

Because since the introduction of no inheritance tax in 1984 for farm land, wealthy people, who have had no prior reason to invest in land,  started buying up land left right and centre. So farmers have ended up assets heavy as the demand for land increased.

There is still no clear explanation of how a business asset can be worth so much, yet generate so little profit?

In a snide little moment earlier, I did think HMRC had missed a trick with so many farmers needing to park up in and around London. A good opportunity to dip a few fuel tanks of personal vehicles too see how many were being run on red…

But obviously fine upstanding farmers would never do anything like that.

Well exactly.. No sane person would ‘hold hold onto stock’ or invest millions into something that might make you a 1% return*.

The current debit account with my bank is competitive with that! Lol!

*unless there’s a few advantages in doing so… Looking at you Jeremy Clarkson!