F1 2023 (will 100% contain spoilers)

IMO Williams are being lined up for a Porsche takeover. They are still interested in F1 and there are no other teams for sale.

The problem with Porsche is that they don’t have a suitable engine manufacturing / testing facility. Their plan was to use Red Bull’s facilities. I’d have thought that it is a bit late in the day to have to put some in place and be competitive so if they did take over Williams they’d probably have to use a rebranded Audi engine.

I wonder if there’s a quid pro quo from Audi for releasing Seidl three years early, like a future engine deal for McLaren?

The problem with Porsche is that they don’t have a suitable engine manufacturing / testing facility. Their plan was to use Red Bull’s facilities.

I know that was the case, but the rumours of an entry are still doing the rounds.

Then there’s Honda registering as an engine supplier for 2026 under the HRC brand. Where does that leave Red Bull Power Trains?

Also rumours about Hyundai entering as an engine supplier (not team). Rumours of Ford showing interest too.

Could Renault’s old boss lead Hyundai to Formula 1?

As with everything in F1 a surprise deal is never far away! :-)

Seems there could be and abundance of engine suppliers for 2026!

I wonder what happened to the original Lotus team ?

Well Colin Chapman died.

I wonder what happened to the original Lotus team ?

They went out of business in 1994.

James Hunt’s brother David bought it when it went bankrupt at the end of ’94, but he couldn’t save it.

Well Colin Chapman died

To be fair, he keeled over 12 years before it went bump.

Bloody hell – had no idea David also died pretty young in his sleep from a heart attack. Only 55, ten years older than James was when he passed.

Red Bull: Originally Stewart, then Jaguar
Ferrari: Originally the Alfa Romeo race team
Mercedes: Previously Brawn, Honda, Bar, originally Tyrrell
Alpine: Previously Renault, Lotus, Renault, Benneton, originally Toleman
McLaren: Founded as McLaren
Alfa Romeo: Previously Sauber, BMW, originally Sauber with Mercedes support. From 2026 will become Audi.
Aston Martin: Previously Racing Point, Force India, Spyker, Midland. Originally Jordan.
Haas: Founded as Haas
Alpha Tauri: Previously Torro Rosso, originally Minardi.
Williams: Founded as Williams.

Ferrari: Originally the Alfa Romeo race team

Well – the old boy used to run their team way back in the day. Ferrari has been the entrant since the F1 World Championship began. :)

Haas: Founded as Haas

Haas: Founded as Haas Ferrari! :-)

Mercedes originally Tyrell? Well in modern times maybe.

Mercedes originally Tyrell? Well in modern times maybe.

Other than the name there isn’t really anything at all linking the original Mercedes F1 team to the current one.

Boom – Ford rumours surface again!… :-)

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ford-linked-return-red-bull-2026/10411381/

Mercedes originally Tyrell? Well in modern times maybe.

AIUI the link back to Tyrrell is a pretty tenuous. When BAR bought the team they only really kept the Tyrrell name for a short time so they could collect some cash from Bernie, other than that BAR was pretty much a new team with new facilities.

Similarly if Andretti were to buy the Williams team name (and entry to the championship) but relocate the factory to the US would we consider that there was any Williams heritage left in the team? That’s almost the opposite of Jordan morphing into AM as they’ve more or less stayed in the same place and just changed the signs outside the factory.

AIUI the link back to Tyrrell is a pretty tenuous. When BAR bought the team they only really kept the Tyrrell name for a short time so they could collect some cash from Bernie, other than that BAR was pretty much a new team with new facilities.

I think it’s definitely that the entry had tremendous value, but also it was much cheaper and easier to buy an existing team and use their entry than apply for an entry from scratch. That’s why almost all teams have these convoluted “used to be A, which used to be B, which used to be C” histories.

simondbarnes
Full Member
IMO Williams are being lined up for a Porsche takeover. They are still interested in F1 and there are no other teams for sale.

The problem with Porsche is that they don’t have a suitable engine manufacturing / testing facility.

yes they do, they also had a “good to go” engine onyl a few years ago but pulled th plug at the last minute (millions had been spent). The whole RB tie up was becuase they wanted a team already good to go that they could control, but RB had different ideas on it.

Also, Ford -yeah not sure about that they have anything to offer anyone anymore. If anything it will be Cosworth, but it wont have any Ford involvemnt. Ford doesn’t even get involved in WRC – that’s done entirely at arms length through MSport.

yes they do

Everything I’ve read has said otherwise

onyl a few years ago

In F1 terms that may as well be last century

Everything I’ve read has said otherwise

Same here. There was a good article in Motorsport magazine a few months ago about the Porsche/Audi F1 approaches and the angst between them.

And I don’t think anyone has a good-to-go engine just sat around. They are far too complicated for that now.

it was around 2015/16, im sure some testing was a lot more recent but may be thinking of toher people – tech has moved on, but they still have capability -they just need people back as they all buggered off back in to the main Porsche family or to other Msport teams.

Audi are using the research from that engine (old article, but a bit of relevant info)…

Which would seem to leave both Porsche and Honda with something of a time-pressured dilemma. Porsche — which was planning on co-operating with Red Bull Powertrains — potentially has no power unit and no team. Ironically, Audi’s power unit will be based upon an initial Porsche R&D project for a non-ERS-h hybrid F1 unit of a few years ago, before dieselgate and before that technical group was broken up (ironically with many of the personnel transferring to Audi).

Porsche-Red Bull deal looks doomed… unless F1 changes the rules— MPH

I can’t link to the article I read as it was in the print version of the magazine.

Mick to Mercedes as reserve – he’s playing a very long game here!…

Mercedes announces Schumacher as 2023 F1 reserve driver

A sentiment appointment, surely?

https://twitter.com/wearetherace/status/1603358075615944705

pondo
Full Member

A sentiment appointment, surely?

maybe, but they’ll need work out of him. And if they need work out of him he’ll have to be useful. They’ve also lost their current reserve drivers I believe, so not many other options with F1 experience

How do Porsche build their LMDH engine if they don’t have a manufacturing or testing facility?

Haas, founded as Haas (American Ferrari), assembled in the Marussia F1 factory, formally Ascari.

How do Porsche build their LMDH engine if they don’t have a manufacturing or testing facility?

They don’t have F1 standard facilities. The lmdh engine is based on one of their road engines. It’s a BOP series so doesn’t need anything cutting edge (although clearly reliability, driveability and fuel consumption very important)

Engine noise

Sorry..I mean “power unit”

If F1 could mandate for a carbon neutral high efficiency hybrid to make a noise like a 1990s Ferrari or Honda V12, a BMW V10 or even a Renault RS01 then I’d be happy.

Here’s a little festive F1 treat for you to pass some time

If you have even a passing interest in Senna, Prost, or late 80’s f1 car engineering, I can’t tell you how much you need to watch this! It’s a constant stream of interesting titbits

Ooo, will look forward to watching that later – ta! :)

Will give that a watch later, cheers

Lose the red off the rear wing and that would be what id imagine Darth Vader’s F1 car would be!

@multi21

Thanks for sharing that – watched it a short while ago and some really great insights about how they went about F1 at the time. 👍

I really need to search YouTube for more like it.

I loved that vid too, very nerdy and interesting!

Yikes – so it looks like Cadillac want to enter F1 supported by Andretti. Do Cadillac even have any sporting heritage to draw on? My immediate thoughts when I hear the name are wallowy barges with blacked out windows and chromed wheels…

Andretti teams up with GM for Cadillac F1 entry bid

The words cadillac and performance really don’t work together

i think cadillac have recent history in american endurance or sports car racing. and probably something from oval racing in the 1930’s.

i’ve not closely followed the andretti f1 saga, but do recall toto objecting to andretti on the grounds that they brought nothing to f1 beyond another team. being connected with a car company could be their answer to this.

i like the idea of a pushrod engine in f1, even if it does have to have a hybrid system attached.

so it looks like Cadillac want to enter F1 supported by Andretti. Do Cadillac even have any sporting heritage to draw on? My immediate thoughts when I hear the name are wallowy barges with blacked out windows and chromed wheels…

Came here expecting just such a response! Iz not disappointed. This should provide plenty comedy value 😄😄😄

This should provide plenty comedy value

Andretti Autosport has won 17 drivers championships in 7 different series and 6 Indy 500 victories since the 90’s. I think you’ll find it hard looking for laughs if you think they’re going to be a comedy set-up.