MegaSack DRAW - 6pm Christmas Eve - LIVE on our YouTube Channel
Well that was dull!
Agreed!
Amacing circuit which makes the cars look fast, multiple lead changes. Winner in third at one point. Last minute gasps at fastest lap, alpine scoring decent points, alonso overtaking lots, Lando proving he is real talent. But yet i agree, somehow dull!
Hamilton operates at a higher level than everyone else. He really had the bit between his teeth today.
Norris as well showing after Hamilton he is the best British talent on the grid. Great drive by him, that second stint on the Medium tyres was fantastic.
Amacing circuit which makes the cars look fast, multiple lead changes. Winner in third at one point. Last minute gasps at fastest lap, alpine scoring decent points, alonso overtaking lots, Lando proving he is real talent. But yet i agree, somehow dull!
Felt the same here. Watched the whole race and the good bits were good but at the end it felt like a waste of time. Really strange feeling for a life-long fan!
I'm worried I'll lose interest at some point through the season as 20+ races just feels like too many. Each race used to be an event but now there seems to be one every weekend it doesn't seem to matter if I miss one. Maybe I'll try the theory out for the next one, Barcelona is always a borefest anyway. It just feels like the sport has gone down the Quantity over Quality path too much now: DRS overtakes, tyre saving, fuel saving and too many races makes things seem formulaic and contrived somehow.
I'm going to have a shot at F1 punditry and pick winners and losers from each race.
Portugal
Winner: Lewis Hamilton (also Lando Norris)
Loser: Nikita Mazepin
Italy
Winner: Max Verstappen (also Lando Norris)
Loser: Nikita Mazepin
Bahrain
Winner: Lewis Hamilton (also Lando Norris)
Loser: Nikita Mazepin
I think the boredom today came from the realisation that the Red Bull challenge is effectively over for this season. Mercedes have rapidly got around the low rake handicap from the new regs and Red Bull have never out-developed them.
Lewis really is on another level though. You could tell when he was sat in third he was keeping his tyres in good shape for a later challenge - then bam, first Max, then Bottas, then the race was his to lose.
Mercedes have rapidly got around the low rake handicap from the new regs and Red Bull have never out-developed them.
You sure? RB tend to come on strong late in the season, usually when it's too late to catch up, might not be this time. Still think it will be Lewis, but closer than before.
The Perez/Bottas battle will decide the constructors.
I think the boredom today came from the realisation that the Red Bull challenge is effectively over for this season.
Too early to say that, it may be circuit specific. I think the Red Bull works better on circuits with a mix of low and high-speed corners and has a wider temperature operating window. I do think Merc will be relieved to be competitive, but a lot of it has come down to Hamilton driving superbly so it will only take one bad race to lose a big bunch of points. Plus reliability, of course. Honda pushed really hard on the performance front and seem to have a slight engine advantage. They may have reliability issues, but so may Merc if they are forced to run their engines harder to stay competitive. It would only take one blown engine to throw the championship wide open.
Merc really need to sort their pit stop times out
Iirc Bottas stop was 3.3 seconds, Max's was 1.9 seconds
When Bottas came out the pits and had his wobble Max took advantage and passed, if Bottas had a 1.9 second pit stop he would of had a bit of wiggle room to correct and defend from Max
Has Merc ever done a sub 2 second pit stop? in the past their dominance meant they didn't need to worry too much about doing the quickest pit stops but it seems to be much more important this year to get everything spot on given how close the cars are this year
Hamilton's was 2.35 I think, so not too far off, but it's true that Mercedes are consistently slower than RB. Over the last 6 seasons this really hasn't mattered...maybe now they'll look to change that.
Really a case of only recording the races and skimming through in the hope something exciting might happen. Got more entertainment from watching the Monaco Historic feed last weekend - proper cars and a pleasure to watch/hear them.
I see RB are morning again because they went off the track and so has fastest lap taken off them. Why do they and dc find it so hard to understand the concept of staying on the track?
Yep, fan of DC but his Redbull bias is quite noticeable.
On Max's attempt at fastest lap, my OH looked up from her mobile phone game and commented that he went off track.
He made no comment when Hamilton lost a lap to track limits.
Good to see the Red Bulls in the same league as the Mercs, should be an exciting season.
I think the problem is lack of consistency. Track limits apply here, but not there, as determined buy the stewards. I think Max commented at the time that the stewards had not said they were applying track limits at that point. Barbed wire and tank traps on the kerbs might help.
Christian Horner did comment that it was a tricky business when tracks have to accommodate cars and bikes.
Yep, fan of DC but his Redbull bias is quite noticeable.
I never really noticed it until it was pointed out last week and after watching this weekends highlights he is pretty bad for it.
My understanding is track limits are monitored where there is an advantage in going off the track. I presume it’s because run off areas before hitting the gravel means there are no real consequences of going off track is it’s faster
slowoldman
Full MemberI think the problem is lack of consistency. Track limits apply here, but not there, as determined buy the stewards. I think Max commented at the time that the stewards had not said they were applying track limits at that point. Barbed wire and tank traps on the kerbs might help.bikes.
Max was wrong on that, they mentioned it on Missed Apex's race review.
It's amusing me slightly that it appears that RB are in a "be careful what you wish for" situation with the track limits, stemming from Bahrain.
In Bahrain the limits weren't being enforced on a particular corner so the Mercs were overruning massively there. RB complained during the race and it was decided that the limits would now be enforced. Verstappen then overtook Hamilton for the lead by going off track at that very corner and had to give the place back, handing Hamilton the win.
That farce and the slagging off the race management took for it has led to them being more strict currently, which has cost Redbull, as Verstappen has been incapable of keeping it on the island enough to not get pinged - my heart bleeds for them, oh, hang on, no it doesn't, if there was a wall there then you wouldn't have gone off, would you?
Why do they ever NOT enforce track limits? - surely that would be the most consistent and transparent thing to do on all corners on all tracks. Here's the grey stuff, cars must remain on it at all times, now off you go.
If an accident or near-miss or mistake means exceeding them then no advantage can be gained otherwise its a penalty.
Track limits apply here, but not there, as determined buy the stewards.
Its always been a case that the track is defined by the white line painted at the edge of the circuit. One wheel needs to be within that limit at all times.
They need to universally apply this all the time.
Picking and choosing causes ambiguity and inconsistency.
In an ideal world you'd change the circuits so that exceeding them lead to time loss.
A difficult thing to do though, and still keep safety standards for both F1 & MotoGP
They should have exposable gravel traps for the F1 which are for other types of racing covered by sections made of the same stuff as the track over a series of metal plates. Only the F1 cars are going to have the downforce to remove/displace them and they will all be removed for those races anyway.
Alternatively, have a duct which trickles/sprays water onto those sections during certain races. NO ONE will exceed track limits by choice.
NO ONE will exceed track limits by choice.
“Nelson, it’s Flav here…”
😉
So pleased for Grosjean! Not doing Mercedes PR any harm either 🙂
That's great - really pleased for him - smart marketing too!
Surely there is sufficient technology now to remove any need for human adjudication of track limit misuse? Just adopt a zero tolerance policy at all corners on all tracks and penalise accordingly. An automatic 5 sec penalty(served in the pits) should be enough. At least that's a milder penalty than hitting a wall/barrier.
so you lock up into a corner and run wide and have a 5 sec stop and go too boot, harsh!
Not as harsh as hitting a wall or barrier.
and yet they still do.
Yeah blanket penalty just doesn't quite work, you'd also have to adapt it for overtakes and somehow draw a line telling the different being forced off and just keeping your foot in it as it's still tarmac out there. It's gone a little odd in here in that people as suggesting that cars have never done interesting lines involving grass/gravel in the past and been able to keep it going (at pace)
chance of showers for sunday....
Immediately makes me go back to....
Full day test at Paul Ricard - has the poor fella not suffered enough! 🙂
6 key members of Mercedes engine team heading to Red Bull. Hamilton to jump ship next year? He made the right decision when he left Mclaren!
Hamilton to jump ship next year?
There is zero chance of Hamilton going to any other team. He will retire from driving someday, but he will still be driving for Merc until that happens.
The Red Bull hirings are to work on an engine for 2025. They will be on gardening leave for the rest of this year and the existing engines will be frozen next year, so the reason everyone is excited about this is that it means they have a long-term plan to build engines and stay in the sport. This will also keep Verstappen happy, so Red Bull don't have to worry about Merc stealing him when Hamilton retires.
There's also rumours about Porsche possibly do engines for RB.
There's always been rumours though.
There’s also rumours about Porsche possibly do engines for RB.
Aren't Williams and McLaren now run by ex-VW people? Would make a lot more sense to buy into them, surely.
Lol, sounds like Mazespin has done it again 😂
Mazepin has spun already. <5 mins into FP1......cripes!
I know he's not well regarded, but a bit of me feels sorry for him, He's way out of his depth, and the world is getting to watch. poor bloke, can't be good for the soul.
We're now at the fourth race of the season and Mazepin's F1 career, Mazepin still seems unable to grasp the notion that he needs to get his tyres up to working temperature.
He's also currently 2.3 seconds slower than his teammate, who has approximately half Mazepin's cumulative mileage in an F1 car.
the alpha tauri looks a handful.
Someone needs to tell Mazepin that opposite lock doesn't work if you have the brakes locked. He'd have got away with that if he hadn't panicked and hit the brakes.
Mazepin still seems unable to grasp the notion that he needs to get his tyres up to working temperature.
It's not that, In F2 last year he finished 5th and had 2 wins, he knows how these cars work. I think some drivers can make the leap, some can't. The point I was making was that he's probably dreamt of this (being an F1 driver) and when he gets there, he's (for whatever reason) bad at it, and the world gets to see that. On just a human level, that's tough for a young kid
nickc
It’s not that, In F2 last year he finished 5th and had 2 wins, he knows how these cars work. I think some drivers can make the leap, some can’t. The point I was making was that he’s probably dreamt of this (being an F1 driver) and when he gets there, he’s (for whatever reason) bad at it, and the world gets to see that. On just a human level, that’s tough for a young kid
Yeah but he's a helmet so it's funny
Kubica off, red flag
I kind of do feel a teeny bit sorry for Mazepin on a human level, I admit that I'm none too impressed at his behaviour over the years but I acknowledge that he's at least trying.
I know he’s not well regarded, but a bit of me feels sorry for him, He’s way out of his depth, and the world is getting to watch. poor bloke, can’t be good for the soul.
I have zero sympathy for him. He's fairly obviously been brought up to expect that he will always get everything he wants and now that he's up against some real competition, he just doesn't seem to know what to do. His general nastiness and sense of entitlement make it impossible to have any sympathy for him. Schumacher was also brought up by a hugely wealthy dad and had all the doors opened for him, but he knows that he has to earn his place on the grid and he seems to treat people with respect.
If it was anyone else we probably would feel sorry for him, but his off-track antics mean no-one is going to have any sympathy for him.
Someone on another forum was (unfairly in my opinion) comparing him to Maldonado. Maldonado was a) much quicker when he did remain on the track and more importantly b) widely regarded as a nice chap by his contemporaries off track, even if they did give him a wide berth on it
Schumacher was also brought up by a hugely wealthy dad and had all the doors opened for him, but he knows that he has to earn his place on the grid and he seems to treat people with respect.
You make a very good point.
I’m none too impressed at his behaviour over the years but I acknowledge that he’s at least trying.
Or is he just trying to improve the image portrayed? The cynical side of me (approx 99% of me it seems) reckons it’s just that
I'm absolutely with @thols2. The only people I feel sorry for are the woman he sexually assaulted and more deserving up and coming drivers that could be in that seat.
EDIT- And if there's a video of that happening to one woman, do people truly believe it was a one-off incident?
Out of his depth in F2, let alone F1, should never have been given a super license really. There's moving up struggles and having an iffy car, but spins in every race so far, repeatedly getting in the way of other drivers... just all smacks of being lost at sea with no hope of turning it around, and that's before we get in to sexual harassment issues... Sooner he's dropped the better
EDIT- And if there’s a video of that happening to one woman, do people truly believe it was a one-off incident?
He had form for sending sleazy texts to a motor racing journalist too, I believe.
The problem is that Haas is bankrolled by Mazepin snr, so the likelihood of jnr being benched is low, unless he's deemed to be a sufficient hazard that his super-license is revoked.
Sooner he’s dropped the better
His dad is keeping Haas on the grid, so that money is giving Schumacher a chance to get established. That's the bit that makes it worth tolerating him. Seeing him humiliated is a bonus.
Schumacher was also brought up by a hugely wealthy dad and had all the doors opened for him, but he knows that he has to earn his place on the grid
I think the difference with Schu jr is that his name carries some expectation with it, so despite all the money and contacts he has probably had a lot of pressure to perform, Massivespin was effectively bankrolled to have a play in a racing car (still is?) and so he hasn't had the same pressure to perform. TBF all the same accusations could be levelled at Stroll Jr but he's actually come a long way since his early races.
LeClerc not hiding his feelings
It does irk me that someone like Mazepin can have a seat bought for him to inevitably face the wrong way in every other weekend, while drivers like Emma Kimileinen, Jamie Chadwick and Alice Powell will probably never get the chance to drive an F1 car competitively.
TBF all the same accusations could be levelled at Stroll Jr but he’s actually come a long way since his early races
Stroll appears to have become a decent midfield runner. More to the point is the lack of off-track accusations...
Stroll also did have a reasonable history of results behind him (compared to Mazepin at least) didn’t he?
I find Stroll difficult to like, but he deserves respect for being a decent driver. Mazepin seems totally unlikeable and has not earned any respect on track of off track.
It does irk me that someone like Mazepin can have a seat bought for him to inevitably face the wrong way in every other weekend, while drivers like Emma Kimileinen, Jamie Chadwick and Alice Powell will probably never get the chance to drive an F1 car competitively.
Absolutely!
Stroll appears to have become a decent midfield runner
He is benefiting from dad's upgrades, something Vettal's quickly discovering!
Räikkönen also voicing is opinion, in a very different way, in FP2? Not sure he would’ve so readily done that to many other drivers
Hadn’t seen this before, just to further fuel the track limits arguement
https://youtube.com/shorts/zb_2CqV7G2A?feature=share
Not sure that clip fuels any argument. The Alpine was still behind exiting the corner and completed the overtake on track at next one. Max completely his overtake by running wide and maintaining speed.
Not sure that clip fuels any argument.
I don't think the Verstappen fans care. It's like arguing with a Trump supporter, their guy didn't win so the other guy must have cheated.
The main thing is that the first overtake happened on lap 20 - which I think was before Red Bull had a moan to race direction about cars going all four wheels off track there, despite the drivers being told that there were no track limits being policed at that corner in the pre-event briefing.
The race directors then decided that track limits were now being enforced there (because Red Bull had a moan, I suspect) this was evidenced by a message to Hamilton telling him to stop running wide there, he responded to the effect of "but they told us it was fine" to be told "yup, we know, but the rules have changed", so he stopped going wide there.
Verstappen then overtook him with all four wheels off of the track at the exact spot where they'd been specifically told not to - in fact the exact spot that Red Bull had complained about Hamilton doing exactly that.
Skip onto Imola where track limits didn't need to be enforced, as the design of the track itself does quite a good job of enforcing them(!) and Hamilton got very lucky with the red flag for Bottas/Russell negating his off, allowing him to finish second (mentioned by Horner after Portimao)
Followed by Portimao, where track limits were being enforced more strictly (I think it was "all four wheels onto the green painted bits" and you were considered offtrack anywhere) and Verstappen ran off track twice at critical points, causing him to miss out on pole and lose his fastest lap.
Horner's Imola comments are obfuscation, as Hamilton was massively lucky, the rest of the complaint is proper sour grapes, as Red Bull have been tripped up three times by their star driver not being able to keep his driving within the defined bounds of the track - bounds which they themselves pushed for tighter regulation of, as they believed it would give them an advantage!
While track limits is a ballache, and should be policed consistently all the time, Red Bull can get in the sea about this, as they've fallen victim to it actually being consistent!
Rant Over.
I think summed up earlier by someone saying careful what you wish for.
Love watching Horner have a moan 🤣
That was me too! 😀
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MrPottatoHead
Free MemberNot sure that clip fuels any argument. The Alpine was still behind exiting the corner and completed the overtake on track at next one. Max completely his overtake by running wide and maintaining speed.
But to go back to some earlier comments - if that was grass/gravel he probably couldn’t have got the job done. FWIW, not a Verstappen fan, just think the FIA are making a right arse of this
FWIW, not a Verstappen fan, just think the FIA are making a right arse of this
They were, but since they changed their minds after lap 20 of the first race they've been consistent. They need to ignore Red Bull's whinging and keep being consistent going forwards. They probably won't, because the FiA are just as bad a UEFA/FIFA when it comes down to it.
They need to ignore Red Bull’s whinging and keep being consistent going forwards. They probably won’t, because the FiA are just as bad a UEFA/FIFA when it comes down to it.
absolutely, an injection of backbone is required
Interesting interview from Tsunoda
Alpha Tauri's Yuki Tsunoda, who starts 16th on the grid, to Sky Sports: "The tyre temperature was spot-on but the car is really slow compared to the other car. I don't know why it's slow, I think most of the cars is slower than me.
"The performance in this car is a concern - but it's always different compare to my team-mate. The character of the car is different to my team-mate, I don't know why I am struggling."
Surely Mazepin deserves a grid penalty for this.
https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/status/1391037271810392065
Tsunoda basically inferring that his car was different and/or slower than Gasly's will not impress anyone either at Red Bull or Honda.
Mazepin should've aborted his lap and let Norris through, but of course didn't.
