Looking for a little parental input re what advise to give our 17 year old son.

Long story short, he’s more than bright enough to do whatever work / career he wants to do but clearly he’s not ready / mature enough / interested in studying academically…yet! He’s a very young 17 academically speaking, but he’s maturing on the social side much better than his peers. When something interests him he goes all out and has a great work ethic. When things don’t interest him, pulling hens teeth is easier.

Incidentally I was like this…I left school with 2 O’Grades, I hated school with every fibre of my being and the academic light didn’t turn on in my head till I was 20ish. I now have 2 degrees and a Masters and was asked to go do a PHD but the bills were stacking up!

I’m fairly relaxed that he’ll eventually turn out to be a decent chap. As I say, he’s bright, can look you in the eye, he’s got cracking interpersonal skills, can talk to anyone with confidence, without being precocious, and has talked / blagged himself into two work experience jobs against his far better qualified (on paper) peers. He’s also got a part time job in McDs which gives him a little extra pocket money.

In saying all that he’s not sure what line of work or career he wants to go down. He thinks Engineering interest him and some sport science related things also peak his interest. Decent qualification are however needed to so anything reasonable.

He’s effectively only got 6th year to do and ended up only getting 1 x ‘B’ in his highers. If he stays on he ‘might’ get another 1 or 2 highers but it’s a big ‘maybe’ and risk in our minds. As we see it there are many ways to climb the ladder of life, we’re not adamant he has to go to Uni / college…however we’d obviously like him to do his best academically as we believe it’ll open more doors of opportunity (might be wrong here!)

At this point we see the following options:

Do we encourage him to stay on and go through another year of school with the usual arguments re how much or how effectively he is studying? What if the light still isn’t on this time next year?

Do we encourage him to find a proper job and finish off his highers at evening college?

Do we encourage him to take a full year out and go work in a outdoor centre or whatever and then return to studies when he’s got a little more life experience?

Do we encourage him to try and find some kind of (graduate) apprenticeship scheme (doubt he’s got enough qualifications)

Do we…

Do we…

Any parental advise welcome!

We have a young for his year one as well, already planning a year at college at end of school – as much to gain life experience while still being able to stay at home…

Do look at college – a total change from school in approach, often can get a part time job and feel the need for some responsibility. You can just do Highers/Nat5/Access Course/Diploma there that may be more productive that *more* teachers and school.

I am also a huge fan of a year out WORKING, learning some lessons in life. As you say, places like some of the outdoor centres offer a supportive place for them to be. We had a 17 year old apprentice who couldn’t even get out of bed on time or brush his teeth before a days work at the start, let alone pack a bag the night before or leave his phone alone – 8 years later has just won a job as a senior instructor at a pretty prestigious outdoor centre in the States….Many places would have chewed him out within a fortnight IMO.

If you/he does decide to take another year studying I’d suggest he leaves school and goes to a college instead. I found it a different and more mature environment which suited me better than staying on at school.

Our son failed the first year of his A Levels.

He switched to a BTEC in a subject that actually interested him rather than those that were just gateways to further  study/qualifications. After 2 years he got a Distinction and is now 2/3rds of the way through a computer science degree course he on track to get a 1st in.

My 2p – is don’t stick to the traditional academic subjects/study approach if they don’t suit him – my son loved computers and that’s what he was prepared to focus on and work at, the episodic/project nature of the BTEC (and to an extent the degree too) meant he could work to relatively short term goals.

I realise the Scottish education system is different but I think the principle applies – establish why he thinks he’s failing – if it’s lack of interest and motivation than go down a different path.

apprenticeship if you can find one.

where are you based?

Thanks for the replys.

I don’t think the current Scottish schooling system is best set up to accommodate or cater for those who are less academically inclined…or maybe for boys in general for that matter!

We’re based in Glasgow and the School he’s at is one of the top state schools in the country. Whilst he’s circulating with some of the highest achievers around (several destined for Oxbridge entry) the school clearly focus and indeed heavily invest in these high academic achievers as opposed to those who maybe learn a different way.

At the end of the day the lad has to work himself and make his own decisions so it’s not the schools fault.

apprenticeship if you can find one.

+1.

I manage three apprentices.  It’s a good scheme these days.  They work here four days a week with a day release to college, it’s a good mix of studying and work, and they actually get paid for it.  First year’s minimum salary is a pittance (we pay more than the minimum), but then what are his outgoings at that age, a phone contract?  After that they hit the regular national minimum wage, which comes out at something like £15K I think.

Of course, it lives or dies on the calibre of the placement.  I’ve heard some horror stories from places using apprentices as glorified tea boys for two years before kicking them out of the door.  But we’re awesome. (-:

Have a look at your local DNO (distribution network operator). They recruit for trainee craftsmen every year and it’s a good stepping stone to being an engineer.

If I had my time again, with the knowledge I have now, that’s what I’d have done. I really dint feel my degree was that useful. Poor example results would have been a blessing in disguise for me.

two points I want to pass on.

In 5th year I got 1 higher in graphic communication and 4 fails.

Reason being I’d walked my standard grades and most of school with zero effort. It was a shock and a kick up the arse I needed to work

The following year I got 4 highers (maths physics English and craft and design technology) with decent grades with good old hard work.

Did a 4 year Beng in mech Eng and am an engineer in oil and gas these days. I get paid well but I travel to shitty places alot. It’s only now at 10 years in I’m getting to be choosier where I go.

Now that’s where it all stops. If I had my time again and I knew what I knew now I wouldn’t have gone to uni and would have pushed hard to find an apprenticeship with a proper technical trade background in agreement with those above and done the uni in my mid 20s.

I didn’t have anyone in my family who had been to  uni before to explain this to me and as far as school were concerned it was the only. Path available to me ,my folks were proud as punch that I was the first in the family to go to uni and I didn’t know what I wanted to do at the time so uni for a stem subject seemed a sensible direction for a start.

I will never regret uni but now I am more worldly wise and know there are other ways –which I didn’t know then

Travel and work anywhere – abroad if possible.  There are better places to be and the best time to find them is when young.

Go to Uni at 30 40, 50 even for a second career.  Only do jobs that are Fun.

certainly a sideways move to college or foundation or apprentice sounds a grand idea.

Elder son is some way through MEng course, for him studying hard clicked and that’s grand. Younger daughter – academic, but very artistically minded – couldn’t get the portfolio together to convince art schools, and so did foundation year away. Still pressure but much more interactive, a year away from home with decent support and she’s thrived.

I did the academic study route – at school did well, had to work harder at uni but it took til later for that to kick in. I’m not sure I’d do it differently, I found some great work experience in middle years at university and that helped as much as anything but academic side had a part to play as well..

My son did rubbish on the basics and went to collage to get the necessary. He was the youngest in the class so was on a hiding from the start.

got the results needed for Uni, now a high flyer. Mind you I would change my steady away life for all that stress.

Apprenticeship in either roads or railways in a technical role. Both industries have an aging workforce and very little under 25s coming through. Might not be the most exciting option but there will be plently of opportunities to gain further qualifications and to move up in position afterwards once a bit of experience behind him and knows what direction he wants to go in.

From manual labouring/general operative to technical roles, bridge/structures inspection and maintenance, testing and inspection, design, site supervision, project management etc etc. Plenty of different roles.

Road operating companies in Scotland are BEAR, Amey and Transerve who between them look after all the trunk roads. All run apprenticeship schemes.

Another to consider is Scottish Water, they have a good apprenticeship scheme.

Didn’t we do this like a year ago for the same kid?

I can’t be arsed to search for the thread, but , whatever I said the last time, just do that.

Unless you already did it and it didn’t work.

Well I figure if I’m going to browse STW at work, I might as well do my job while at home 🙂

First things first, there’s not really any “risk” to staying on and doing 6th year unless it totally grinds him down, even if he was just to add a mediocre higher or two it’s still a year older and wiser and he doesn’t really lose out. Who at 30 bitterly regrets doing 6th year? And he might do really well. Except when a kid’s totally against it or basically not going to make much of it, we’d usually recommend it,.it closes no doors and it might open some and you can’t go back and do it later so strategically, it’s hard to beat.

“In saying all that he’s not sure what line of work or career he wants to go down. He thinks Engineering interest him and some sport science related things also peak his interest.”

OK so this is the real quesiton, if he knows what he wants he’ll most probably get there. If he doesn’t, then he quite likely won’t, or if he does he’ll regret it. So it’s not about the options open to him- which are many- it’s about finding the right choice. 33% of university grads regret their course, that’s even without the dropouts, he’s basically in a very good place to invest a load of time and effort in order to join that 33%.

But the other thing is, uni is a door that just never closes, he doesn’t have to go headlong into it. Scotland’s college-to-university route is arguably the best in the world, and it’s totally realistic to basically restart with nothing and make it work. It’s hard, but that’s where knowing what you want really comes in. Also all universities are targeted for “widening access” which includes mature students, college entrants etc so while right now it probably seems like the whole system is set up for the high achievers, it’s not quite so. Schools, aye, but not the whole game.

(If he could say honestly “I definitely want to do engineering” I could give him a roadmap but it’d be wrong for me to guide him down that road here)

If his head’s in it, tomorrow is a good day to call universities- the results day madness is passing but everyone’s still in clearing mode. Get him to call us, 0131 322 3222, don’t say I sent you 😉 We’re good at engineering and college. (we don’t do sports). Glasgow Caley will be good too. They can talk through his options in that direction.

I’d also suggest calling Skills Development Scotland’s exam line on 0808 100 8000. They can talk more about the bigger picture- basically the chat that the school should have given him, but quite likely haven’t (or which he may not have been paying attention to!)

Feel free to drop me a PM if you like, mostly my advice would be to speak to the people who really specialise at this- I’m decent at it but other people are better and he doesn’t need decent.

Hi there. I strongly advise you pop into your local college (City of Glasgow college?) and have a chat with one of their advisors regarding what options would be open to him.

He could do an National certificate, HNC, HND, Routes to Higher Ed course or suchlike and potentially progress directly into third year of an honours degree if he really wants to when the time comes.

Most colleges have fantastic articulation routes into uni these days and great opportunities for work placement.

With a college course he’s not going to commit himself to 4 years of one thing. He could do a one or two year course thus giving him a bit of time to find out what he really likes

Alterntively there are Foundation Apprenticeships as well as Modern Apprenticeships to consider.

It’s late in the day for applying to college but I am sure there will be some availability in certain courses. Go and speak to CoGC or any other local college as there’s a few down there

I find most people (including school teachers and advisors) aren’t that well informed about what college can offer young people so it doesn’t get explained very well to kids. Particularly in high performing schools where Uni is often the only route presented (as it was to me)

I went to a college (after dropping out of Uni) and ended up with an MSc. I have also now worked in one now for 14 years so I’m quite a fan.

Also City of Glasgow’s new campuses are amazing. I’m well jealous of their facilities. Worth going just for a nosey.

Beware of pushing him down the apprenticeship route if he is not turned on to learning at the moment.

A technical apprenticeship is (in my opinion) harder than A-Levels.

A technical apprenticeship usually involves 4 days full time work plus one day at college (heading towards HNC/HND). There is a lot of work to be done outside of college and some companies will not allow you much (any) time to study during work time. In addition to the college work there will be NVQ type projects throughout the apprenticeship.

My eldest is in a very similar situation, breezed GCSEs and is struggling big time with A-Levels. He has improved slightly and hopefully will continue to next year.

He doesn’t have a clue what he wants to do for a career, so I have told him to get his A-levels and then get any job for a year or two whilst he decides what he may want to do. Absolutely no point going on to university to attempt a degree he is not interested in (sure failure).

Be wary of any advice (saying do something other than uni seems as fashionable as a beard these days). There are lots of other options available, which obviously suit some kids. But uni still has advantages and I suspect there’s a hefty amount of inverse snobbery involved.

I went to uni, struggled a bit having breezed through a-levels but then went into a good career office job with stupidly good money (oil and gas design), got made redundant after 8 years and now do something totally different (making TV documentaries!).

Was uni a waste of time then? No. Lived in a different city, friends for life, got me a job I liked, and ultimately was a good investment of time and money.

The thing I’ve realised trying to swap jobs in my 30’s is it’s incredibly difficult. There is no one offering free qualifications once your out of the school system, and with house prices astronomical the luxury of going back to uni in your 30s/40s when you have a house and kids isn’t going to be an option for most people.

Basically I think anyone would have to be daft not to grab the opportunity to get as many qualifications as they can whilst they’re still in the system and have no responsibilities in the outside world.  After that when you have to start paying for them yourself and an 8 hour course costs a four figure sum you start to realise how valuable free school qualifications are!

apprenticeship if you can find one.

+2

Then he can decide if he wants to do evening class etc …

Let him work for a year, just doing whatever is available to him.

That’ll focus his mind a bit.

BTDT.

First things first, there’s not really any “risk” to staying on and doing 6th year unless it totally grinds him down, even if he was just to add a mediocre higher or two it’s still a year older and wiser and he doesn’t really lose out.

I don’t really agree even if my experience is out of date and England… it’s entirely possible that the compatibility of the school and kid are an issue.  I had zero interest in school… I floated through wasn’t challenged and was too immature to pull my finger out. That said I’d spent 4 years doing bugger-all before GCE O Levels and indeed was not meant to take any  (back then we had CSE and GCE) but took them and got all A’s and I’ll never live down the B… I still did bugger all work… if anything it just reinforced my view I could do bugger all and sail through.

If you/he does decide to take another year studying I’d suggest he leaves school and goes to a college instead. I found it a different and more mature environment which suited me better than staying on at school.

I couldn’t wait to leave school… that said I’d already been working nights in local engineering and working on a shop floor didn’t seem that good either… Somehow I got convinced to go to the local (Accrington) College…

I can honestly say the different environment pulled me out of my lax ..do bugger all attitude.  MY brother stayed on at the same school.. and he did well as well.. it wouldn’t have worked for me whereas the school worked for my brother.

Interestingly after my O level results the school who’d classified me as a loser wanted me to stop on… I think in part that was part of my motivation to leave… but the environment just didn’t work for me.  Anyway… got my A levels, degree and then worked for a year and then masters… had a doctorate lined up but as someone else said… the debts were mounting…

Quite honestly, I thin had I listened to the school I’d have got to the extra challenge of A levels and screwed up hugely.

<div class=”bbp-reply-author”>Robz
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I find most people (including school teachers and advisors) aren’t that well informed about what college can offer young people so it doesn’t get explained very well to kids

Yup. And to be fair parents tend to assume college is for kids that can’t get into uni, we have this conversation all the time… Just today I was speaking to someone that was trying to get her son to take a frankly shitty inappropriate clearing offer because it was uni, as opposed to going through college and getting to where he really wanted to. No accountancy is not just like maths.  All she could see was uni > college.

If you go via hnc/hnd articulation or associateship into uni, statistically (for us at least) you’re more likely to graduate, and more likely to achieve at least a 2:2 (though, less likely to achieve a first). There’s obviously loads of factors in this but basically, college works really well for a lot of people.

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Pisses me off tbh, all the changes in colleges got such a bad rap and to be fair they don’t work for all situations but by and large college in scotland is a fantastic option and a huge success story. But the bloomin chinese appreciate a HND more than scotland does!

Anyway, rant mode off.

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Not parental advice, but advice from someone who has been there done it and got the t-shirt. Here is the short story

Exeptional gcse results, shit A level results lost interest in school and learning. Got an apprenticeship in electical engineering with the local power station. This turned into a proper job with a spectacular salary/experience for a 21 year old. Stayed there for 5 years. Now work in a highly technical and specialised industry and enjoying what I do and still only 28.

The other options I had was to go to uni or find work. Uni would have been a massive piss up and not much else for me. Going into work at 17 would mean minimum wage shit hours doing a shit job. Who wants a 17 year old doing anything remotely important in your business.

If you are up in Glasgow then look at siemens and other big engineering/energy sector apprenticeships. They know what they want education wise and are pretty much guaranteed a job if he finishes it.

Sounds like me!

Stayed on at school for final year just about scraped 3 A levels and not enough to go to uni as I wasn’t really motivated/interested as didn’t know what I wanted to do.

Had a bunch of jobs since but still not settled into a career at 27…

My brother is 18 and left school after poor results at 17 went to college instead did a specific course to go to uni for a radiography has come out top off his class with several offers from uni’s.

In hindsight definitely the option I should have taken, college just suits some people better than school