EU Referendum – are you in or out?

@ben – you know I’m taking the p right? Of course we all know the problem you have is sectarianism not racism!

“Aye, but are you a Catholic Muslim or a Proddy Muslim?” ;-)

@igm deportations – my understanding is it depends if they can claim a human rights reason to stay, like family member (eg wife or child). I believe our courts said that doesn’t cou t by ECJ overuled us. In many respects these are petty issues but it shows the naivety and arrogance of the EU that they oush these things through and provoke such a strong responce.

@tmh btw was told this week that Lloyds are looking at booking EU business through Malta. Brass plate office.

my understanding is it depends if they can claim a human rights reason to stay, like family member (eg wife or child). I believe our courts said that doesn’t cou t by ECJ overuled us.

Isn’t that a matter for the European Court of Human Rights?

That’s not the same as the European Court of Justice is it?

Presumably we remain signed up the convention on Human Rights and will still be bound by the European Court of Human Rights in that respect?

If not then consider me alarmed.

But the mouth foamers like Jambalya/Ninfan etc want to repeal the Human Rights Act as well.

Do we?

Pretty sure jamba wants to (from previous threads) but I don’t think the bill discussed in this article does that.

Not this bill but the proposed UK/English Bill of Rights will do.

@rosscore interesting read, Big Short I thought was pretty good and IMO the European Soverien Debt crises will be far worse

Not this bill but the proposed UK/English Bill of Rights will do.

I remain hopeful that Bill will be defeated when it is debated, though I can see them trying to just sweep it along with the all rest as “This is what the British people voted for”

ECJ ruling applies to automatic expulsion of non-EU criminals if they are the sole carer of a child who has EU citizenship. It’s a bit more nuanced than the “dey tuk ar laws” headlines.

In terms of deporting EU nationals it doesn’t apply, the whole thing is to do with the right of the child, as an EU citizen, to stay in the EU.

Well I tried to read more of the ids short story but all I could see in mental images was a stupid old British racist shouting slowly so the foreign shop keeper could understand and pointing out but I’m British like it actually meant something.
On European courts they tended to fund as expected with the law, sometimes the UK wasn’t very clever at reading before signing.

Edit: GrahamS, secondary legislation – good spot. That feels somewhat undemocratic, ministers appointed not elected (elected as MPs yes but not ministers) making changes to the law, probably in cahoots with some unelected civil servants. If Europeans tried that Brexiteers would be foaming (even more ) at the mouth.

This.

Also, for clarity, everything mentioned yesterday would kick in 2 years after article 50 is triggered (at the earliest), not on the day it is triggered.

Mrs and I just back from an evening out with Liam Fox and friends.

Evening out with a Brexiteer by jamesanderson2010[/url], on Flickr

To paraphrase Dr Fox-wit, this lot are going to sacrifice a generation at the altar of Brexit.

I see Sajid Javid said this week that European tradesmen would be able to ply their trade after Brexit. How are they going to police that when the government has already admitted they have no idea how many EU citizens work and live in the UK? Another 12 years and £830 million on e-Borders 2.0?

So the behind-the-scenes stuff in full swing now

May to invoke A50 in 1Q17

All to end up pretty much were we started by 2020?

You have to love these guys and girls

It really seems to stink. They are forgetting that 48% of people want to stay.
It’s hardly a green light ,full steam ahead result is it?
Now that people realise their holidays will cost more ,the nasty foreigners aren’t being sent home and hospitals will still be shut would they’d still vote the same way?
They should have held the referendum in November as the **** wits would be more bothered about voting for someone we’ve never heard of having a dance off.

Graham, thanks for that Oxford Uni Conference piece. Half way throigh the 63 pages. Fair to say I am enjoying it greatly as it says most of the things I have been saying and presents a thoughful and considered assestment (opinion) of the issues and way forward.

Two particularly interesting points so far ((obvious when you think of it)

WTO tariffs will not be a significant issue for exporters as fall in currency is equal to / greater than tariff to be applied, true for cars in particular. A biritish produced car is cheaper post EU exit with wto tariff applied than it was tariff free nefore June.

The EU won’t be able to negotiate due to dogs breakfast mix of 27 member states, commission and dominant players all having different views – as such he simple choice of full access (or very newr to) and none is likely to be the only choice they are capable of handling.

Good job that non-tariff barriers are unimportant!

Never realised it was all so simple!

WTO tariffs will not be a significant issue for exporters as fall in currency is equal to / greater than tariff to be applied, true for cars in particular. A biritish produced car is cheaper post EU exit with wto tariff applied than it was tariff free nefore June.

Sometime i just laugh out loud at your posts

Any opinion on where this leaves as us you kept telling us it was more important for the EU as we run a trade deficit
Given we import more than we export , and we just added a tariff to that and it was now more expensive anyway , due to falling pound, that overall it might actually be bad

Still you focus on the one positive in a mire of shit if you must.

If Dr Fox ever needs a speech writer then he could do worse than call on you as no one dies delusional on here as well as you

The EU won’t be able to negotiate due to dogs breakfast mix of 27 member states, commission and dominant players all having different views – as such he simple choice of full access (or very newr to) and none is likely to be the only choice they are capable of handling.

Well that does pose a problem doesn’t it as a majority need to agree to the article 50 deal don’t they…
If they don’t no matter how well we negotiate we get nothing.

dont worry it wont come to that as we wont negotiate well :wink:

You can’t divorce tariffs from quotas. Tariffs are the ‘easy’ bit, which is why I suppose everyone just ignores everything else involved when crapping on about how we have already won the trade battle.

Tariffs are the ‘easy’ bit

Indeed

Junky we are all here for entertainment, so laughing out loud is a good thing. I certainky get a good laugh from time to time from stuff posted on here. Why not take time and read the piece at least some of it ?

Mike yes that’s their argument a binary choice is all EU can handle. I am personally good with either option, full access with no budget / freedom of movement or quick hard exit. Phaffing around in the middle for years is a waste of time and effort, time and effort that would be better spent globally not least as the EU is Daffy Ducked economically

TMH they make the other point that there are no tariffs on services, look at the amount we outsource to India / Phillipines as an EU member.

as the EU is Daffy Ducked economically

The EU and UK cycles are v similar in trend and absolute numbers – just look at real GDP charts.

I have no wish for the EU to have problems – they are our largest partners in trade. We should be looking for a harmonious relationship with them.

Anyone actually WON any contracts against EU competitors since brexit? Seems like lots of stories of companies losing out. Wonder if there are any other stories?

Molgrips stop with the negative talk, Jamby just told us it would all be awesome. Just like IDS (or is it IBS) fairy story.

£ to loose more value tomorrow ?

Excellent….. Jamby will be pleased

And in breaking news the UK have picked their lead negotiater.

Was watching the Tory speeches in the pub while having Sunday lunch.

The comically bad subtitles provided some well needed comic relief.

My favourite being David Davis saying he was dilated by some Remain voters :lol:

I nearly choked on my roast beef :D

positives, if we can get the pound down a bit more, 20-30% then we can overcome all the tariff issues and with a bit of effort make UK labour costs competitive with India. It will of course solve immigration because no one would come here as the wages would be crap. But would mean we could get the UK textile industry back on its feet, maybe even get Pegatron or someone to set up a factory?

Obvious downsides, why would anyone from abroad work in the NHS etc. but i am sure we can train up the 5% unemployed to be brain surgeons with that £350M we get back from the EU. So that means no unemployed. Everyones a winner.

Blimey looks like May is giving in to Fox and Davies. Hard Brexit all the way

Even Hitchins in the Torygraph, reckons were screwed (also called out Fox for his delusional speech the other day)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/01/this-is-the-only-way-brexit-wont-plunge-us-over-the-cliff/

Even worse was gonna book a foreign holiday yesterday but lost my card and had to cancel I wont get a new one to Tuesday earliest, pounds gonna tank again tomorrow :-(

Kimbers, not sure it will tank tomorrow, come March though! If there is a coherent plan it will be ok, if not then god help us!

I don’t think it will tank – it might dip….& that dip will be passed on to the man in the street.

Big biz is relatively resilient & won’t feel the pain so.

It’s just you, me & your neighbours who are going to feel the squeeze.

So, thanks to Brexit we are all going to be hurt whereas the elite & big biz will just carry on.

So much for sticking two fingers to the man…..you’ve made us weaker & them stronger.

You dumb ass hats….

(Rant over…for now!)

what about , scotland , wales nd NI ?
she clearly said they ll have no voice in the decisions .

what about , scotland , wales nd NI ?
she clearly said they ll have no voice in the decisions .

well they have also said parliament has no say either, so much for a parliamentary democracy.

I don’t think it will tank – it might dip….& that dip will be passed on to the man in the street.

It already is. I held off changing most of my pricing after the vote, but I’ve now had to put up prices on bikes I import. And I’ve just sent a big Euro payment this evening instead of doing it during working hours as usual, in case the pound drops even further after this.

what about , scotland , wales nd NI ?
she clearly said they ll have no voice in the decisions .

This is, as usual, about the whole UK being twisted to the ideals of the right-wing lunatic fringe. UKIP is in power, effectively. May said that she didn’t want this country torn apart by nationalists, which would be ironically funny if it wasn’t so stupidly depressing.

Where is the bloody opposition when its needed? Bloody Corbyn has been a disgrace in all this. If he actually stood up for Remain we wouldn’t be in this mess.
**** useless.

Where is the bloody opposition when its needed? Bloody Corbyn has been a disgrace in all this. If he actually stood up for Remain we wouldn’t be in this mess.
**** useless.

Yes, Labour’s self-destruction means not only do we have Brexit, we’ll have a Tory government for at least another 9 years. Even now, Labour is playing the “we must make the best of it” line instead of standing up and arguing that the whole thing was a really, really bad idea and it’d be perfectly reasonable for the government to ignore the referendum result.

That’s what’s so bizarre. There’s nothing legally binding about the referendum. It was a glorified opinion poll. Carrying on with it when they don’t have to is just setting fire to the country because they like to watch things burn.