EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Do you really think it will? Or when it all turns to bollocks will they just find something else to blame?

Not sure about they even care about ideology this or that

It doesn’t matter what they call it or whether they understand the meaning of the word – if they’re making decisions based on something other than facts or real benefits then it’s ideology. Racism is fundamentally an ideology.

not divided eh ?

I said this on the Corbyn thread, but I think the tories are about to give labour a lesson in how to do party in-fighting properly. For all it’s venom, the labour troubles are mostly about the fact that the blairites completely f***** up and couldn’t accept it. They appear to be doing so now though. The divide in the tories on the other hand goes much deeper. The labour party agree on pretty much most things, but disagree on strategy. The tories however are split ideologically down the middle. Only power holds them together, and given May’s less than competent record at the home office I doubt she has the ability to hold it all together.

aracer – Member

chewkw » If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?

Do you really think it will? Or when it all turns to bollocks will they just find something else to blame? [/quote]

That depends on your British culture.
What is the norm of blaming?
In the Far East – corrupted politicians.

dazh – Member

not divided eh ?

The divide in the tories on the other hand goes much deeper. The labour party agree on pretty much most things, but disagree on strategy. The tories however are split ideologically down the middle. Only power holds them together, and given May’s less than competent record at the home office I doubt she has the ability to hold it all together. [/quote]

Any politician or party that does not embrace Brexit will slowly disappear from politics in the next 20 years.

Engaging further in a discussion where some posters are simply intent on making personal attacks ? Well I’ve got better things to do than respond.

Thanks

If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?

Because, they, obviously, are not the only one effected.

they have Fox, BJ and whoever the other bloke is on one side of the divide

Does anyone really think Fox (and DD) really want the same thing as BJ?

Well BJ simply wants power, and has accidentally found himself over there, but with about the most power he’s likely ever to get now – what do the other two want?

Agree with DazH the brexit negotiations ais going to be like one slow car crash – tbh it would be whoever was in power as its just going to be ames

So far the three main players acannot agree with each other never mind the non brexiters in their party – ie th emajority.

“Liam Fox’s speech this week was very worrying. In fact, it was delusional,” she told the Guardian. “How can we have ‘freer’ free trade? Let’s get real, for God’s sake. It’s really worrying that these are the senior people who have the future of our country in their hands. May is the voice of sanity, and without her I don’t know where the three Brexiteers would take us.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/anna-soubry-brands-liam-foxs-free-trade-speech-delusional

kelvin – Member

If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?

Because, they, obviously, are not the only one effected.[/quote]
We are all affected regardless so I don’t see why we cannot work together to make everyone happy again.

I said this on the Corbyn thread, but I think the tories are about to give labour a lesson in how to do party in-fighting properly.

No-score draw more likely

For all it’s venom, the labour troubles are mostly about the fact that the blairites completely f***** up and couldn’t accept it.

Come on dazh, be serious

The divide in the tories on the other hand goes much deeper. The labour party agree on pretty much most things, but disagree on strategy.

As abpve – have you been on holiday recently or were you fooled by Smith’s attempt to be Militant-lite

May’s less than competent record at the home office I doubt she has the ability to hold it all together.

Ok, you finished strongly, phew.

I used to agree as I am not a May fan. But she has surprised me on the upside so far. Still v early days. Dare I say it but good FT article on her situation today.

what do the other two want?

You really need to ask?

R W O E P – re-arrange

I like May.

She has a good no nonsense approach of not giving needy running commentaries.

May will win 2 general elections easily if she is strong enough to command.

Basil Brush could win two general elections against Corbyn.

BOOM BOOM

5thElefant – Member
Basil Brush could win two general elections against Corbyn.

I respect JC for standing firm without giving in to the champagne socialists. Who is that bloke that was seen at the field partying? I mean WTF …

Historically we have always been a free trading nation, that is unlikely to change, recognising as we do that lots of previous world altercations have their roots in trade protectionism. So yes Fox saying it’ll be free-er trading has roots in truth, anyone who has tried to vye with the European ‘Chambers of Commerce’ system will know that protectionism is alive and well in the single market to this very day and that the single market as a free trade area is largely an illusion.

So what can we expect I hear you cry, well you can expect to remain as you always have been, a market, to be sold to, abused by global capitalism, mis informed by corporate controlled media and fed the illusion of democracy, exiting the EU isn’t going to change that. It will however be a minor speed bump in Corporate Americas domination of the region they call Europe, TTIP might not be quite as effective as first planned, but by and large our subservience to the capitalists system may at least contain some checks and balances retained by our own Government going forward, for whatever that’s worth.

It’s not going to save the planet that’s for sure, but it’s not going to be the disaster that the remainers have attempted to scare us into thinking. there’s an old saying in business, ‘one door closes, another door opens’ and that’s the way to view this.

As a trading nation, the sensible play is to make it easier and cheaper to trade with your partners, not the other way round. We largely had that in place and yet decide to throw it all away. Cretinous.

which of the dear departed is rosccore?

Great to see chewkw back. Just the straight-talking common-sense fact-based outlook this thread has been missing :lol:

Large corporation good or bad?
…
Now is the time to see some of them vanish forever.

Are you suggesting that people voted for Brexit because they wanted to drive all the large corporations away from the UK??

Well that’s a new one!

It is kind of amusing to see people moaning about Nissan’s move being political.

Nissan publicly came out for Remain before the referendum. They warned about the potential impact on the Sunderland plant. They even sued Vote Leave for using their logo and misquoting them.

3 months ago on this same thread:

igm
Renault-Nissan plant at Sunderland is competing for a new model, will they be on a level playing field with a French plant?

mdavids
The next new model is the new Juke, but only if they can hit the cost targets that were promised. They only just won it and that extra potential £??? that has just been added by voting to leave might well tip the scales in favour of the Renault plant they were competing with.

As for Jaguar, my brother-in-law and his mates have worked for them for 20 odd years and done extremely well out of it (judging by his massive house in Warwick).

Jaguar employee 26,000 people in the UK – no idea why you think it is a good idea to drive them away.

TTIP might not be quite as effective as first planned, but by and large our subservience to the capitalists system may at least contain some checks and balances retained by our own Government going forward

What…?

Our government were the biggest supporters of TTIP. They were gagging to sign us up to it straight away and it was other countries in the EU that refused to sign and insisted on “checks and balances”.

“We should set ourselves the urgent task of completing the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership [TTIP] – the EU-US Free Trade agreement.
This would be the world’s biggest ever trade deal – together our economies would account for half of global output.”
— George Osborne, 15th Jan 2014

What…?

Our government were the biggest supporters of TTIP. They were gagging to sign us up to it straight away and it was other countries in the EU that refused to sign and insisted on “checks and balances”.

“We should set ourselves the urgent task of completing the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership [TTIP] – the EU-US Free Trade agreement.
This would be the world’s biggest ever trade deal – together our economies would account for half of global output.”
— George Osborne, 15th Jan 2014

You might have missed the fact Osbourne and the Eton elite are no more, I don’t think you’ll find the current adminstration quite as oblivious to what TTIP contained for us all. The greatest trick May pulled was convincing them she wasn’t the Brexiteer she quite clearly is.

Jaguar employee 26,000 people in the UK – no idea why you think it is a good idea to drive them away.

Politics of envy isn’t it?

I guess its easier to hope others will be brought down to your level then to try and raise yourself up.

Perhaps he should put his money where his mouth is and get rid of all the goods in his home developed by those evil corporations, maybe do us all a favour and start with whichever device he’s accessing the internet from.

Mr Ghosns’ statement the other day is nothing new, he’s just re-iterating the company line which was made clear before the referendum.

They’re a business, they aren’t trying to play politics. If it becomes cheaper to build elsewhere because of trade tariffs they’ll go. Unless May puts her hand in her pocket and makes up the shortfall.

You might have missed the fact Osbourne and the Eton elite are no more, I don’t think you’ll find the current adminstration quite as oblivious to what TTIP contained for us all.

Riiiight.. it was that bad old government, the Tories, that wanted us to sign up. This new Tory government are completely different. :roll:

Assuming that were true, do you think we are now in a stronger negotiating position to dictate terms when the USA decide to approach us with a new TTIP deal?

We are absolutely desperate for trade deals, we are less than a tenth the size of the EU, and the pound is at an historic low against the dollar.

Plus all our good negotiators will be busy sorting out all the Brexit stuff, so we’ll have to send the work experiences kids.

Plus all our good negotiators will be busy sorting out all the Brexit stuff, so we’ll have to send the work experiences kids.

We’ll just get some immigrants in to do it for us.

GrahamS – Member
You might have missed the fact Osbourne and the Eton elite are no more, I don’t think you’ll find the current adminstration quite as oblivious to what TTIP contained for us all.
Riiiight.. it was that bad old government, the Tories, that wanted us to sign up. This new Tory government are completely different.

Assuming that were true, do you think we are now in a stronger negotiating position to dictate terms when the USA decide to approach us with a new TTIP deal?

We are absolutely desperate for trade deals, we are less than a tenth the size of the EU, and the pound is at an historic low against the dollar.

Plus all our good negotiators will be busy sorting out all the Brexit stuff, so we’ll have to send the work experiences kids.

Before we start, answer me this, are you arguing in favour of TTIP?

No, based on the very little we actually know about TTIP, I’m against it.

But whether you are for or against it, we are undeniably in a much poorer negotiating position for “TTIP Mk2” or whatever post-Brexit Trade Deal the US decides to offer us (if they do at all – Trade Deals are a hot potato there at the moment).

“TTIP might not be quite as effective as first planned, but by and large our subservience to the capitalists system may at least contain some checks and balances retained by our own Government going forward, for whatever that’s worth.”

We’d have been signed up to that, had it not been for the rest of Europe.

Also: you’re ‘Just5minutes’.

I’ve just realised.

GrahamS – Member
Are you suggesting that people voted for Brexit because they wanted to drive all the large corporations away from the UK??

EU yes. Large corporations? That depends on which one of them are winding people up.

Nissan publicly came out for Remain before the referendum. They warned about the potential impact on the Sunderland plant. They even sued Vote Leave for using their logo and misquoting them.

I bet they want subsidies of some sort but just saying it differently or they wanted to be treated specially with some sort of lower tax etc whatever …

Jaguar employee 26,000 people in the UK – no idea why you think it is a good idea to drive them away.

They ain’t going anyway because I bet they are trying it on ….

The only reason Range Rover is doing well because the British people drive them and the Queen has them. Imagine if Range Rover is driven by some blokes from say Asia or some other countries … nobody will buy them.

They want to sell Range Rover they need the British people to sell that image and same goes to Jaguar. Nobody in the world will buy Range Rover or Jaguar if their image is associated with say Asia.

I double dare them Nissan, Ranger Rover & Jaguar to go away from the UK.

p/s:

Great to see chewkw back. Just the straight-talking common-sense fact-based outlook this thread has been missing

I was away learning other cultures … :D

Sorry, cross-post with GrahamS.

chewkw

The only reason Range Rover is doing well because the British people drive them and the Queen has them.

…they sell 8 out of 10 RR’s abroad, chewkw…..so: bollocks.

codybrennan – Member

chewkw
The only reason Range Rover is doing well because the British people drive them and the Queen has them.

…they sell 8 out of 10 RR’s abroad, chewkw…..so: bollocks. [/quote]

Yes, because the well off people bought them for status symbol to be associated with certain class. Especially the very well off British class. Same goes to Mercedes in Asia.

You try associate Range Rover with people from say my hometown of Borneo then see if the well off buy or even sit in one of them.

In the Far East we drive Toyota Landcrusier or other Japanese brands 4×4, only those that want to show off drive Range Rover. You go see.

Nobody in the world will buy Range Rover or Jaguar if their image is associated with say Asia.

Ummm… Jaguar Land Rover is owned by Tata Motors – an Indian company headquartered in Mumbai.

GrahamS – Member
No, based on the very little we actually know about TTIP, I’m against it.

But whether you are for or against it, we are undeniably in a much poorer negotiating position for “TTIP Mk2” or whatever post-Brexit Trade Deal the US decides to offer us (if they do at all – Trade Deals are a hot potato there at the moment).

Good, I’m glad that’s out of the way and we agree it would have been not a good thing.

So back to your other fears, I wouldn’t worry too much, the self proclaimed masters of the universe operate in New York & London via Cable there is no way they are going to let anything get in the way of North Atlantic trade between us, not much will change in that regard.

GrahamS – Member

Nobody in the world will buy Range Rover or Jaguar if their image is associated with say Asia.

Ummm… Jaguar Land Rover is owned by Tata Motors – an Indian company. [/quote]

Exactly. Everyone knows that Tata motors (make buses etc in Asia) own Jaguar Land Rover, which is why this brand needs to be associated with Britain and if it is manufactured in the UK the better.

Why not move Range Rover plant to India since they have cheap labour? Then advertised Range Rover in India …

Then see how many celebrities will buy them.

I triple dare them.

The greatest trick May pulled was convincing them she wasn’t the Brexiteer she quite clearly is.

nah, she picked johnson, davies and fox to sort out brexit, theres no way shed have picked those clowns if she wanted it to succeed !

or they could build the car somewhere else and use marketing to portray a british image .

codybrennan – Member

Also: you’re ‘Just5minutes’.

I’ve just realised.

Not quite sure what you mean by me being “just5minutes’ if your suggesting I’ve posted here before using that identity you are mistaken.
As for TTIP we couldn’t sign for anything positive or negative before, precisely why it’s good we will be able to make our own decisions for what’s in our best interest if and when we finally leave.

kimbers – Member
The greatest trick May pulled was convincing them she wasn’t the Brexiteer she quite clearly is.
nah, she picked johnson, davies and fox to sort out brexit, theres no way shed have picked those clowns if she wanted it to succeed !

Hmm on the face of it Johnson may appear a clown, but in reality is a very well educated and quite bright individual, Davies is also no fool, no idea about Fox, but I think May has been very shrewd lumping all three of them together in the mire, and at the end of the day she will sort out what needs to be done, I do have confidence in her as the best of a very bad bunch, I can’t think of any of the other idiots in Westminster I’d rather be at the helm right now and I’m not a Tory voter.

cchris2lou – Member
or they could build the car somewhere else and use marketing to portray a british image .

Will the British pay premium price to be fooled?

If the British don’t drive them then nobody will be fooled into buying them. Everyone will switch to luxury premium V8 Toyota Landcruisers.

Remember Lotus? The last time I heard Lotus was own by some blokes from my home country … see where they are now …

Johnson may appear a clown, but in reality is a very well educated and quite bright individual,

which is why he managed to miscalculatetvhe brexit vote quite spectacularly and his recent trip to turkey resulted him saying we’d be in a jumbo free trade are and wed help turkey accession to the EU

no idea about Fox,

check his speach about yesterday, the bit about EU = North Korea was comedy gold

Davies is also no fool,

his wafflefest when addressing parliament at the start of the month was epic and his assertions that we could stay in the free trade area and not face any trade offs over immigration were pure fantasy

Will the British pay premium price to be fooled?

yeah theres no way the british would be foolish enough to pay through the nose for anything made in asia just coz of brand image 8O