[Closed] Enve AM rims on a HT .. "too stiff"? (alternatives)

I'm not a hucker but still managed to wear out a Flow on a 26" hardtail. What's on there now?

me? currently I have Arch Ex. I want wider without a big weight penalty. On a 29er, rotational mass matters. As it does to middle-aged giffers too.

"Anyone running these on an HT? Is there any mileage in the rumour they're "too stiff" for a HT?"

Been reading too many magazines recently ?

light bicycles 35mm hookless?

No such thing as too stiff with a rim. When you've got a tyre with 60mm of travel on there, you won't notice the difference between 1mm and 2mm of flex in your rim (made up figures - I suspect it's not even that much).

Just use a thinner spoke in every other hole...

I have had then on my Jones, all my fillings are still in place and they're pretty marvellous.

No such thing as too stiff with a rim. When you've got a tyre with 60mm of travel on there, you won't notice the difference between 1mm and 2mm of flex in your rim (made up figures - I suspect it's not even that much).

Logically this makes sense to me.

Just use a thinner spoke in every other hole...

😆

If you don't fit any tyres, then yes, they might be too stiff. Otherwise, get on it! 😉

and they're pretty marvellous

wish you hadn't said that

i recommended chinese carbon and i have Enve,

If you think you can discern "too stiff" as a quality in a rim, as opposed to a wheel, with spokes, attached to a bike, with stays, and suspension, all encased by a big rubber tyre, I think you're talking cobblers.

At 800 pounds each (or however much they are now) if do you buy them I'm sure you'll convince yourself they're amazing

Thumbs up for chinese carbon from me !!!

How about those rock guards [s]rimz[/s] rims? They were about 300 quid a pop I think. Widths looked sensible.

^^ just rebadged light-bicycles no? or some form of chinese carbon.

WTB KOM 23mm internal and 448g
or the frequency i23 + i25 with a bit more weight

Another here for LB hookless - and I too run Enve's.

Pretty sure Rock Guardz ones are from Carbonal rather than LB.

It could easily be emperor's new clothes but I stuck an LB rim on the back of my hardtail, I think there's a difference- even with a 2.3 rear tyre. No idea if I'll still believe that in 6 months.

If you watch slomo video sequences you sometimes see wheels doing a hell of a lot more than you'd expect, this isn't the best example but skip to 50 seconds on this:

HI,
I have had good results with some earlier Reynolds carbon 29ERS (the all black ones)
About as wide as a Flow but lighter(my wheelset came in at 1600 grams)
They seem to have a good amount of ping over the rocks and smaller obstacles,but never to stiff or flexible.
A few sets going cheaper at the moment as a newer model was released a year or so back.
Original price was about 1500 but have seen some new ones selling on Ebay for about 800.
Thanx,
Max

The LB AM internal width is 23mm they say, only 2mm more than my Arch Ex. Not sure it's worth switching to gain just 2mm.

Enve AM are 24mm, so it's a moot point perhaps. 1/2 mm each side is nearly a measuring error.

For comparison, Stans say Flows are 25.5mm internal.

[i]Yeah I know about Flows, thinking lighter. I actually don't need super strength, I'm not a hucker.[/i]

Crests?

They're doing a 35mm (30mm internal) hookless rim now too I believe.

That's what I'd have. I've got the 'normal' hookless 29er rims and very impressed.

[quote=Northwind ]If you watch slomo video sequences you sometimes see wheels doing a hell of a lot more than you'd expect, this isn't the best example but skip to 50 seconds on this:

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The bit where the tyre's squirming all over the place? I'll grant that you do get lateral flex at the rim in a built wheel (which there might be in that video, can't really tell to be honest), but that's not the same as vertical flex, which is what the OP seemed interested in. I agree there probably is an advantage to stiffer.

[quote=njee20 ]They're doing a 35mm (30mm internal) hookless rim now too I believe.
That's what I'd have. I've got the 'normal' hookless 29er rims and very impressed.

I'll try again here as no answer on the other thread - I don't suppose anybody has some of the 35mm hookless and could give an idea how wide tyres come up on them (preferably compared to a Flow if anybody has experience of both)?

Will do this week when mine arrive hopefully aracer. Currently running mkii 2.2, purg 2.2 and saguaro 2.2 but still toying with a 2.1 tho maybe I'm expecting a bit to much extra girth.

aracer - Member

The bit where the tyre's squirming all over the place?

No, the bit where he clouts it off a rock and you can see the wheel deflecting inches.

With hardtails, it's definitely not just about vertical- anything that takes force out of a hit takes strain off the bike/rider. My old Traversee used to walk about all over the place- a lightweight wheel in the first place even before I ruined it 😳 But it all helps.

I saw some slow-mo enduro footage recently where the front wheel deflected sideways so much I expected it to taco but it just sprung back. It's possible it's the same as the link above, but I don't view video away from my wifi.

On a tangent, it was during a profile of Jared Graves who has been racing XCO at the Australian National Series and Champs as training to try and win the Enduro World Series. I think they said he won the series and he only came 2nd to Dan Macconnell (sp?) in the champs. Phenomenal!

Have a look at the new American classic wide lightning's.

They're doing a 35mm (30mm internal) hookless rim now too I believe.

That's what I'd have. I've got the 'normal' hookless 29er rims and very impressed.

LB say "There is a new kind of 29er hookless rim (35mm outer width & 25mm depth) with new process. It's also tubeless-compatible. The weight is 420 /-15g(AM version) and the price is USD180/pcs."

http://www.light-bicycle.com/all-mountain-29er-carbon-mtb-wheels-clincher-tubeless-wheel-ready.html (reviews)

what does 'hookless' mean in this context? (their attachment not included on web).

[b]EDIT[/b]: answers own question here: http://www.light-bicycle.com/hook-less-control-carbon-29er-rims-is-ready.html

am a bit dubious about how that retains the tyre safely!

I saw some slow-mo enduro footage recently where the front wheel deflected sideways so much I expected it to taco but it just sprung back. It's possible it's the same as the link above, but I don't view video away from my wifi.

Pretty sure you're thinking of this one - EWS roundup.

mattjg - Member

am a bit dubious about how that retains the tyre safely!

Specialized are doing hookless too now fwiw, apparently the process more or less went:
"Why do rims have bead hooks?"
"Durr, rims have bead hooks!"
"Yeah but why?"
"..."

LB seem pretty confident, I got an assurance that there's no drawbacks before I ordered mine (haven't got them yet to try)

I presumed rims had bead hooks to give the tyre beading something to hook to. Shows what I know.

Yes, bo-ing, about 4.05 in andyrm, although I just saw it in a short sequence during the National Champs coverage.

First couple of rides on my hookless rims I wasn't totally trusting of them, but they've been absolutely fine. Running 25psi in 2.25" Rons.

@njee ta, tempted, close to my set up.

good fun watching that wheel ping, it almost looks like the rider booted it back in shape.

For some reason they aren't making a 26" version of the 35mm rims 🙁

Currently, there is no 35mm wide 26er hookless rim. But we have 33mm wide 26er hookless rim

The 33mm is still pretty generous- wider internally than a Flow Ex and the hookless design should mean the tyre's more "round" so a little higher volume. Making molds is expensive so tbh I'd be a bit surprised if they produce any more sizes for 26 inch.

Ah so the flow is 29.1 outer and 25.5 inner

[img] [/img]

and the LB 33mm

[img] [/img]

yowser that LB 33w is 30mm deep. does that mean the wheel builder uses shorter spokes?

If we're talking rim deflection this is a great example:

[img] [/img]

Followed by:

[img] [/img]

Now I doubt it was perfect afterwards, but it seems you can deflect a carbon rim quite a bit and it'll come back!

njee, you're not fooling anyone, we all know he rode into a big pothole

At 800 pounds each (or however much they are now) if do you buy them I'm sure you'll convince yourself they're amazing

Every post you make on this, you always sound SO bitter. Would you like to borrow mine so you can see what you're missing?

I have Enve's in my fully rigid 29er, they're spot on. That said, with the price and all the positive feedback they've got, the LB ones seem a better choice.

I've also got a set of 29er reynolds and whilst very light, I'm forever breaking spokes..this is on the AM wheelset.

LB coming through strongly from where I sit. I want the wheel not the branding.

@gee76 would really appreciate an update once you have your 35mms up and running.

flange - Member

I have Enve's in my fully rigid 29er, they're spot on. That said, with the price and all the positive feedback they've got, the LB ones seem a better choice.

The LBs at $170 a rim really do look like a bargain in the context of Enve's £748 per rim (that's the cheapest UK [price I could see on google for the trim).

$170 versus $1246 is an incredible gap, and it's difficult to imagine the Enve's can be that much better. Their warranty is certainly top notch - but LB have looked after people too, and you're still getting more than 6 LB rims for the price of one Enve.

fyi folks I emailed LB, the current 29er options are:

27mm wide external/22mm internal hookless
30mm / 23mm (inside edges of the beading) beaded
35 mm / 30mm hookless

tempted by the 30/35, weight is comparable to the Arch Ex I currently run. perhaps I'll sit on my hands for a little, perhaps I'll take a punt. see how the day goes ...

building on to Hope hubs adds about 220usd to the price, but buys back frame and fork flexibility (my current frame has 9mm QR at the back, the next is unlikely to)

anyone know what %ge I need to add to LB's costs, for import duty & VAT ?

a fully built wheel set on Hope is looking to come out about 900 USD (£540 ish) including courier.

They mark the value as $50, I paid £28, of which half was Parcelforce fees.

Edit: that was rims only, don't know if they do the same on wheels.

Been looking at this for a new wheel.....the Hope hub option would suggest it is the old pro 2s given the drive options ie no 11 speed and therefore would be the older bearings and lower number of pick up points......if that makes any difference.

I'm getting mine as rim-only and building them onto hubs here, rather than importing any more parts than I need to.

I've got the customs note from my last rim somewhere, I'll try to drag it out. I think it came to £20-ish.

yeah rims may be a good move, actually I have a set of hubs on a 26" wheel set that I'm never going to ride again ...

I've never done a wheel build ... should I? why not, have done most else.

@gotama let's chat before order, maybe we can split the courier fee etc. I'm in no great rush.

Ok, sounds good. Just checking where I can get a wheel built as I don't fancy doing it myself.

3rd party build fine by me too

How do you pay the customs charge etc? Getting mine sent to the office in a potentially rash move...

Parcelforce send you an invoice, pay online.

or track it, know when its at the depot and ring and pay the change, as the invoice takes a day or so to arrive

Probably a stupid question but I'm not up to speed with these hookless rims - anyone know if they can be run with tubes or do they have to be tubless? Suspect it's the former

good question, I've more than once had to put a tube in my Stans to get home. (bump).

davosaurusrex - Member

Probably a stupid question but I'm not up to speed with these hookless rims - anyone know if they can be run with tubes or do they have to be tubless? Suspect it's the former

They can be run tubed or tubeless. (not sure there are any tubeless rims that can't work with a tube, you never know...)