Viewing 30 posts - 121 through 150 (of 150 total)
  • Energy Prices – To fix or not to fix, that is the question
  • irc
    Full Member

    When oil and gas amount to around 73% of the UK energy mix but you we were until recently actively discouraging investment in UK production it isn’t a suprise when prices increase if there is a world shortage.

    As for electricity, relying on supply from other countries seems like folly. When the chips are down they will look after number 1.

    I remember reading about Scottish wind being balanced by Norwegian hydro.

    Not looking so clever now.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-08/norway-must-follow-eu-rules-if-cutting-power-exports-lobby-says

    kingmod
    Free Member

    One solution would be to introduce inverted tier rates for energy bills. You pay a lower unit rate for your initial usage, say your first 5,000kWH per year, and then a higher rate after that. You could also have a third or fourth rate that would impact those people with large houses, indoor swimming pools and gaudy Christmas light displays.

    This is the opposite of what happens now where large businesses have lower rates than households. The high standing charges also mean that lower energy users effectively pay a higher per unit rate.

    Dickyboy
    Full Member

    You pay a lower unit rate for your initial usage, say your first 5,000kWH per year, and then a higher rate after that.

    Absolutely, I’ve been thinking this for years as the fairest way to attribute costs of going green etc etc, Ditto with those on prepayment shouldn’t be paying more, same old same old it’s expensive to be poor 🙁

    Edit:- one issue now would be those with EVs might end up being penalised due to higher electricity use..

    irc
    Full Member

    Edit:- one issue now would be those with EVs might end up being penalised due to higher electricity use..

    Balanced by the fact they don’t pay excise duty or fuel duty.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Yes to progressive pricing! That would certainly focus minds, especially at the corporate end where you still see office buildings lit up like Christmas trees 24/7.

    I remember reading about Scottish wind being balanced by Norwegian hydro.

    Not looking so clever now.

    IIRC that was proposed prior to Longannet shutting down in early 2016. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

    ButtonMoon
    Full Member

    Progressive pricing would get my vote!

    No chance of it happening though as it will impact business profit.

    irc
    Full Member

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

    Hindsight doesn’t come into it. Bad choices. Some experts were warning about the risks of over reliance on wind and solar a decade ago.

    However, in my opinion it is a grave mistake to place intermittent renewable energy at the heart of power generation strategy. Without vast and energy efficient storage of renewable power, the UK runs the risk of stumbling into winter blackouts. These could occur during extreme cold conditions similar to those experienced by Europe in recent years,

    UK electricity demand, GDP and energy policy

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Balanced by the fact they don’t pay excise duty or fuel duty.

    Yeah, but those things were to get us to use EVs. If you now start penalising them we’ll stick with our old fossil cars.

    Chew
    Free Member

    Progressive pricing would get my vote!

    Same here
    Also abolish standing charge and roll it up into the unit charge

    This would be progressive and help those low users reduce their bills

    If it was done correctly, it would be neutral at a national level

    franksinatra
    Full Member

    I was smug about fixing last Oct, just before everything started going nuts. Gave my meter readings to EON and moved over happily.

    Got a bill today from Octopus, my old supplier. 10 months after leaving them they now want me to pay £192.

    The really frustrating thing is the statement says -£192 for electricity use and then £192 credit for reversed account charges. So in my mind an debt followed by identical credit should be zero balance.

    Really not looking forward to trying to work this on out. Either way, I could do without it.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Full Member

    Yeah, but those things were to get us to use EVs. If you now start penalising them we’ll stick with our old fossil cars.

    Or get public transport, use active travel options etc etc.

    The whole point of those taxes is to push people towards better options.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Hindsight doesn’t come into it. Bad choices. Some experts were warning about the risks of over reliance on wind and solar a decade ago.

    No, the thought at the time was that we had an incoming supply from a country on equal trading terms. We **** that good and proper.

    I agree that the renewables issue was an still is being kicked into the long grass. I’ve heard of balancing schemes but thus far have yet to hear of any being deployed in Scotland. This far the only base load we have is, presumably Peterhead, christ knows what happens if that trips as we are then left with Torness as our sole synchronisation point and I’m not even sure if they’re allowed to do that. I guess they must but in a few years we’re going to have no backup whatsoever. That worries me. I should probably read some grid stuff and see what the score is…

    somafunk
    Full Member

    This fits here just as well as in the Raymond Briggs thread,

    singletrackmind
    Full Member

    Tesco might even put doors back on all their freezer units yhat are open to the atmosphere.
    Crazy costs andd loads up the atmosphere with co2, which makes the world hotter, so the freezers have to work harder, producing more co2, making the world hotter and its self propelling circle of stupid

    crossed
    Free Member

    Tesco might even put doors back on all their freezer units yhat are open to the atmosphere.
    Crazy costs andd loads up the atmosphere with co2, which makes the world hotter, so the freezers have to work harder, producing more co2, making the world hotter and its self propelling circle of stupid

    It’s up there with the shops which have the air-con on full lick in the middle of summer with the doors wide open.
    The same places seem to also have the heating on flat out in the middle of winter as well with the same doors open.

    inkster
    Free Member

    Just watched C4 News…

    French prices have gone up 4%
    German prices 40%
    Other European countries fall between those two figures.
    Our prices have gone up 250% and are set to double that by next spring.

    If prices reach those heights then we will have a revolution.

    neilnevill
    Free Member

    France is largely self sufficient based on a lot of nuclear electricity isn’t it? Germany im expecting to consume it’s gas reserves and then have to turn off industry to keep homes warm…. How they are at 40% rise when we are here, using virtually no Russian gas, at 250% rise… Our market is broken.

    Thank heaven my wood stack is enough for 2 or 3 winters.

    inkster
    Free Member

    Apparently we are shipping electricity to France at the moment because they have two nuclear reactors shut down for repairs.

    We are selling it at £900 per kw. The situation is expected to reverse as we have an arrangement to buy electricity from France next year, at £2000 per kw

    Obviously those figures are relative to each other at today’s prices, you’ll find your mileage might vary considerably in the near future..

    irc
    Full Member

    British gas spot market prices are currently lower than Europe. Not higher.

    Major changes to Europe’s gas markets in response to the conflict with Russia

    As for French electricity prices EDF is sueing the govt for billions for loss of revenue. If you sell something for less than it costs you go bust eventually.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/10/edf-sues-french-government-for-7bn-after-forced-to-sell-energy-at-a-loss-macron-price-cap

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    The same places seem to also have the heating on flat out in the middle of winter as well with the same doors open.

    Our Morrisons has heaters blasting to keep you warm whilst you browse the chiller aisle.

    Yup.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    We are selling it at £900 per kw. The situation is expected to reverse as we have an arrangement to buy electricity from France next year, at £2000 per kw

    wait, am I reading that correctly? That our government signed a deal that a 5yo would know is utterly stupid?

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    That our government signed a deal that a 5yo would know is utterly stupid?

    You’ve met our government, yes?

    multi21
    Free Member

    inkster
    Free Member

    Apparently we are shipping electricity to France at the moment because they have two nuclear reactors shut down for repairs.

    We are selling it at £900 per kw. The situation is expected to reverse as we have an arrangement to buy electricity from France next year, at £2000 per kw

    Obviously those figures are relative to each other at today’s prices, you’ll find your mileage might vary considerably in the near future..


    @inkster
    what’s the source of these numbers, hopefully 900/kw is a typo…

    tthew
    Full Member

    How they are at 40% rise when we are here, using virtually no Russian gas

    German end consumers have been fairly well protected because the large utilities that purchase from Russia aren’t allowed to pass the costs of having to purchase, (horrificly expensive) gas on the spot markets to make up the shortfall. That ends in October after a change in the law a few weeks ago.

    @inkster what’s the source of these numbers, hopefully 900/kw is a typo…

    No, that’d be right. It’s a commodity traded on supply/demand so at times it’ll go much higher than that for a period of a couple of hours or so. I’ll see if I can find the website that shows this.

    Some French nuclear stations are having to massively reduce output due to river levels and temperatures mean insufficient cooling. A few reactors maintenance wouldn’t be unusual, particularly during the lower damand summer months.

    julians
    Free Member

    presumably its £900 per g (giga) w not kw – I only pay 24p per kw – I might sell my electric onto the french or back to the uk govt at that price.

    tthew
    Full Member

    presumably its £900 per g (giga) w not kw

    Sorry, yeah I’m missed that unit error, although not GW, but MW, (megawatt)

    Here’s the graph. Prices change every 30 mins.

    inkster
    Free Member

    “@inkster what’s the source of these numbers, hopefully 900/kw is a typo…”

    Mark Urban on last night’s Nesnight.

    pk13
    Full Member

    This topic really is hotting up. pun intended….
    So what’s going to be the snapping point because people just are not going to pay not through stubbornness but pure economic reasons how can someone running a house and earning less than 25k have that pushed on them.

    25k pulled out of my head but it’s about the average for shop work/ parcel depo round my way.

    singletrackmind
    Full Member

    3 months take home pay for me…… 🙁
    For many though its not ability bur willingness.
    For some people, not all, they don’t want to drop their standard of living to pay for electricity. No humble Facebook bragging available to show how well you are doing by posting a picture of your gas bill with paid stamped on it. Where we’ve all seen the photos of the airline tickets, or Tom is checking in at Heathrow.
    For a few people, not goimg skiing for Xmas, Cornwall for Easter then 2 weeks in The Algarve for summer is what they want. Its what they are used to doing. They will have the ability to pay, but would much rather be giving that cash to Tui, or BMW leasing.
    They work hard and the reward is nice things and ‘ making memories’ bullocks. Seeing their £150d to ssec going up to £350 makes it harder to keep up with previous years frivolity.
    However there are also millions who simply dont have any money at the end of the month amd dont ever go on holiday, run 2 cars, have expensive hobbies who are royaly screwed.

    Have feed in tariffs gone up 3 fold?
    Shell sell me 100% green energy, has then sun got more expensive or not been out for the last 4 months?

    Windfall tax is not the answer. Maybe subsidised solar is, but thr tories will find a way for cash to make it into their mates pockets securing them lucrative consultancy fees for the future whilst telling the minions they ar the low tax party.

Viewing 30 posts - 121 through 150 (of 150 total)

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