Energy Prices – To fix or not to fix, that is the question

My energy company seems really keen for a fixed rate.

Shell Energy (who I am with) – won’t even offer any fixed tariff. All SVR unless you are on an old deal.

To cap it all (I’ll get my coat) the regulator has annouced they will review the cap every 3 months, so expect another rise in January.

Kryton57
Free Member
£15.72 for a day/week/month?

Month.

Blimey, that’s good going. We are with Bulb, just two of us in the house and our gas was £25 for June – showers and hot water for washing pans.

Ignore me earlier – I was wrong.

A unit of gas on a meter is not a unit of gas you’ll e charged for. It is a cubic meter of gas.

So yes – something looks very wrong with your account! It could be that you are paying for the building – eek!

Thanks for your help on this guys, really appreciate it!

I’ve left the meter for about half an hour without using any gas, and it remained the same – not even the 2 decimals moved at all), so I’m guessing no leaks?

Will try the same this evening when all our neighbours are home, not use our gas for a while and see if the meter moves.

There’s only one pipe that leaves the meter that goes up to our loft (gas pipe runs across that then down into our kitchen) – I’ll check the loft part later, but all of the flats have their own separate meter / gas pipes leaving into their flat. Genuinely can’t see how any other system could tap into ours?

So this means that:

A) the reading is correct, we’re somehow using that much gas? (2 adults, 1 toddler)
B) The gas meter is faulty and exaggerates how much we’re using?

Probably a stupid question, but we have old school meters.

Would upgrading to smart meters fix any issues with the existing meters (i.e. all the old hardware is removed, so new meters would be far more accurate?)

I presume they’d also make it far easier to establish which devices are using excessive power etc for electric?

Any real downsides to getting them upgraded?

Any real downsides to getting them upgraded?

Where do you live? A smart meter was the bane of my life for a whilst. The house we moved into had a defunct old fashioned meter (the screen was blank). After a few months they fitted a smart meter….which never connected to their systems. This is Scotland so the tech used here is radio of some type. SSE’s wonderful system eventually registered the new meter but never got any signals from it. As we had a smart meter the glorious SSE system assured us we didn’t need to give them any reading and in fact made it impossible. We had to try and chat to a human who (sometimes, sometimes clearly could not be arsed) input it in manually for us. Talking to an engineer this is incredibly common in rural and even some urban areas. Even if your meter is outside (ours is) depending on the orientation of the house and location of the meter they just don’t connect. Fortunately SSE customers because OVO customers recently and their website is better an allows us to submit manual meter readings.

So in summary, they might be awesums but they can also be a total cluster ****.

We’re in West Cornwall, pretty good mobile signal where we are. The gas meter is outdoors (not sure if that’s standard) – as long as it manually shows a reading I’m happy submitting it myself if it did fail to autosend?

Blimey, that’s good going. We are with Bulb, just two of us in the house and our gas was £25 for June – showers and hot water for washing pans.

I think it’s offset by the fact we have a posh hot tap, and pre-oil our pans before they then go onto an induction hob. FWIW then our Electric for the same period was £109.60.

Upgrading the whole house to LED bulbs feels like a good move now anyway!

and pre-oil our pans before they then go onto an induction hob.

What does that achieve ?

FWIW then our Electric for the same period was £109.60.

Hour long electric showers or electric immersion ? That’s an incredible amount for a leccy bill pre the mega price rises…..fwiw offsetting gas usage with electrical is fools folly. A kw of energy is still vastly more expensive when derived from grid tie electricity.

Fixing energy prices isn’t the answer.

Reducing consumption is.

What does that achieve ?

A spelling mistake, meant to say “fill” – from the hot tap so water isn’t heated from cold on the hob.

fwiw offsetting gas usage with electrical is fools folly

We aren’t, it’s the way our house is in that the gas is only there for heating and hot water, it’s hardly unusual.

But a family of four, lots of washing, two parents working from home on laptops, 2 freezers 1 dishwasher, telly…. All adds up I guess, and £130 a month for both pales into comparison compared to some people.

offsetting gas usage with electrical is fools folly. A kw of energy is still vastly more expensive when derived from grid tie electricity.

I generally boil the kettle with the approximate ammount of water I need for the pan if I’m doing pasta.. (gas hob) I figured it would be more efficient, is that not the case?

It’s quicker, but since the gas used is about a sixth the cost of the electricity, even using a little extra gas on the hob the hob is cheaper.

My last gas bill was £4.15 plus £7.50 standing charge.
Electricity was £36 inc standing charge.
That £400 rebate is goimg to pay for most of my annual consumption.

A spelling mistake, meant to say “fill” – from the hot tap so water isn’t heated from cold on the hob.

Is your name Richard Richard or Eddie Hitler ” we get the cold water from the hot tap to save wear and tear on the cold tap”

I don’t miss working from home in that respect. Heating / kettle/coffee beans /leccy …..all adds up.

Even with solar panels the hike in standing charge means I’ll be back to paying pretty much what I paid before the solar panels. My last fix ends at the end of August. Our years bill to date for 8 months Inc standing charge is less than the standing charge will be for a year from September. It’s not like you can even opt out of the standing charge now is it. *Nah I don’t need leccy thanks*

A unit of gas on a meter is not a unit of gas you’ll e charged for. It is a cubic meter of gas.

On a newer meter, yes; older ones might be cubic feet, so a unit will be a lot less energy.

Might it be worth checking they aren’t assuming your readings are in m^3 when they’re actually ft^3? That would be inflate the price a lot…

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/04/winter-refusing-pay-energy-bills-pledge-campaign

Interesting campaign which I hope gets more media focused on this energy price issue. It’s going to be desperate for so many.

The Gov, or should I say the Country is going to pay the price for not listening to the Environmental Evidence instead of Big House Developers and Big Oil.

It’s quicker, but since the gas used is about a sixth the cost of the electricity, even using a little extra gas on the hob the hob is cheaper.

It’s not quite that simple… using a kettle or induction hob is very efficient, whereas using a gas boiler to generate a small amount of hot water is very inefficient. Gas DHW isn’t very efficient to start with, then you’re heating up a whole pipe worth of hot water even though you only want a little bit, and you’re wasting the water that is warm but not quite hot enough yet as it comes through…

Interesting campaign which I hope gets more media focused on this energy price issue. It’s going to be desperate for so many.

Other than landing the poor and financially literate with even worse credit ratings, CCJ’s, and expensive pre-pay meters, what is it going to achieve?

It’s not quite that simple… using a kettle or induction hob is very efficient, whereas using a gas boiler to generate a small amount of hot water is very inefficient. Gas DHW isn’t very efficient to start with, then you’re heating up a whole pipe worth of hot water even though you only want a little bit, and you’re wasting the water that is warm but not quite hot enough yet as it comes through…

He’s talking about boiling an electric kettle, Vs boiling on a gas hob. Not running the hot tap?

Gas hob wins hands down.

Unless you’re my OH and insist on trying to boil pans with the lids off, or 2000ml of water in the (stove top) kettle for a cup of tea. Which is a waste of energy into the water, and probably brings heat loss out the top of the metal kettle into the equation Vs the plastic electric kettle.

Interesting campaign which I hope gets more media focused on this energy price issue. It’s going to be desperate for so many.

Other than landing the poor and financially literate with even worse credit ratings, CCJ’s, and expensive pre-pay meters, what is it going to achieve?

I await the the headlines in the new year about all these folk having their utilities cut off and then whining. It’s a shit situation but refusing to pay isn’t the way forward.

I may stand corrected, but.

It is my understanding that the government place the responsibility for UK home efficiency improvements on the Energy companies (Eco 4 = Energy Company Obligation 4).

So, with the huge profits announced, the next ECO/Green Deal should see masses of free insulation and Renewable energy being installed to reduce household consumption?

No?

So, with the huge profits announced, the next ECO/Green Deal should see masses of free insulation and Renewable energy being installed to reduce household consumption?

No?

Potentially yes.

We had ours done recently (cavity walls), and I’ll admit we’re not what I (or anyone) would probably consider to be not-well-off. If you’re not already insulated to the max, get on the phone to your local council and see what’s on offer. The council won’t be the ones doing it but they can point you towards the companies that have access to the grants to install it.

Unless they bring back the so cheep it’s basically free subsidized offers on insulation in B&Q etc.

He’s talking about boiling an electric kettle, Vs boiling on a gas hob. Not running the hot tap?

Gas hob wins hands down.

Duh, fair point. Brain not engaged fully at all 🙂

We’ve got a fairly hefty leccy consumption – two gaming PC’s and a hot tub, which is left at minimum temperature now and the pump on (only switch heat on if we plan to use it) – we’ve halved the KWh energy consumption since February.

Gas isn’t bad, £60 per month in winter and about £20pm last few months.

new estimate

Warning energy prices to hit over £4,200 in January

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62475171

£350 a month!

Was just about to post that link.
Bear in mind that’s only a forecast so there’s potential for it to increase further.
Neither of the two tory candidates nor johnson nor zahawi are going anywhere near this.
Coming soon to a household near you…fuel poverty.
At a time when there’s an overwhelming need for strong and clear political leadership we get weakness, dithering and ineptitude from tories and labour.
Pathetic.

*tinhat on*

is this the rich’s way to solve climate change without them needing to do anything? reduce consumption by massive prices rises, so only the rich can carry on living as “normal”.

Tinhattery.

is this the rich’s way to solve climate change without them needing to do anything? reduce consumption by massive prices rises, so only the rich can carry on living as “normal”.

They wouldn’t just be playing with peoples personal finances though. There’s now 1000’s of businesses who are questioning whether they can keep the doors open or not.

This is insane

Latest calculation for the electricity and gas UK retail price cap is scary. Very, very scary.

Consultant @CornwallInsight puts the cap in October at £3,582 a year (up from £1,971 per year current). From January, it jumps to £4,266 per year.

UK government sleeping at the wheel. pic.twitter.com/3NfXczLb7R

— Javier Blas (@JavierBlas) August 9, 2022

I know Germany have almost reached their goal of filling up their gas reserves for the winter

does anyone know if the UK has done similar?

UK has very limited storage capacity.
Centrica closed the Rough storage facility in 2017 because Gov wouldn’t help with maintenance and support costs – https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/24/how-uk-energy-policies-have-left-britain-exposed-to-winter-gas-price-hikes

There was also a completely wrong assumption that a combination fracking, North Sea developments and renewables would deliver substantial volumes into the energy mix

Now there’s been a mad scramble to re-open it, possibly this autumn but not confirmed, with suggestions that the associated costs are likely to be loaded onto consumers.
Incompetence of the highest order and, potentially, squeezing consumers even more.

I know Germany have almost reached their goal of filling up their gas reserves for the winter

does anyone know if the UK has done similar?

I understand that Germany are on track to fill their gas storage to 80% of capacity for October, but a lot could happen by then. We don’t have as much gas storage compared to other European countries, less than a weeks worth in the winter, but that storage is almost full.

The reduction of gas storage in this country is a major mistake. As we have increased reliance on wind and solar for electric generation you increase the need gas to pick up the short fall on windless days in the middle winter.

I’m a little puzzled by consumption figures. I’ve just moved into a new place and, based on ‘historical figures,’ Eon wanted me to start paying £161/month gas/elec for little old me in a very small house! Get to ****! Glad I took photos of the meters because the last resident is getting a £155 backdated bill in the near future….

In my last place (bigger, less efficient) I paid £45 for June, gas and electric including standing charges, so I’m now going to be phoning the readings in every month and watching the meters like a hawk…

Its misleading though to publish wild scary numbers.

These numbers sell newspapers and get big clicks on mse type websites but people buy into the data.

Which is a guess, for an average consumer, and wont be more because its capped.

But, it is a guess as the price per kwh hasn’t been released yet
Who is the average consumer anyways
And yes, your bill could be alot more than the £350pcm, if you want 21c during the day and 15c overnight as the cap is on price per unit, not on the amount of units

Its arm waving shouty scaremongering. Generally people are not retarded, but the media or journalism dont want to let facts stand im way of big banner headlines. So they publish confusing guff. Yes, its going to go up, yes by alot and you may have to wear socks, slippers and a thick jumper inside instead of ypur pants. Many people will face the tough choice of pub night or heating the house, or not smoking or heating the house, or not running 2 cars as thats the only way to save £300 a month to cover the increase in food amd fuel.
Too many years of cheap living and no memory of power cuts, strikes, 3mill unemployment, a general war cry of the government must help us is banded around
Unfortunately the help has kinda run out with the pandemic and associated costs so the few remaining tax payers cant help everyone anymore
People living hand to mouth, out of cash by week 3 of the month, living on credit beyond their means are stuffed.. Saying ‘i can’t afford it’ to friends and family when you have been previously living it up in Tenerife is a very tough thing to do.

I hope it’s a mild winter.

Library’s, buses and other warm public spaces are going to be full with ordinary people just keeping warm.

Library’s, buses and other warm public spaces are going to be full with ordinary people just keeping warm.

I reckon some people will be keeping warm by burning down government buildings when the riots start. I’m currently paying £480 a month (increased from £250/month). God knows what it’s going to be in October/January, and there’s not a lot I can do to reduce consumption in the short term other than turrning the heating off for the winter.

Yes, the Extinction Rebellion protests should get some extra supporters 🤔

Its misleading though to publish wild scary numbers

Only if the numbers are wild.

Here’s the research note from Cornwall Consulting https://www.cornwall-insight.com/price-cap-forecasts-for-january-rise-to-over-4200-as-wholesale-prices-surge-again-and-ofgem-revises-cap-methodology/
The numbers are scary but not wild – they result from a detached, factual analysis and take into account all of the relevant factors including a revision to the cap methodology.

In the absence of substantial support from Gov – which truss has refused to commit to today – this will result in ‘excess’ deaths and businesses going bust.