Hi,
I am having some serious issues at work which I do not want to disclose in too much detail.

As I have moved through informal then formal measures to try to resolve this the company at first ignored me, then during the grievance procedure ignored the issues I raised or completely minimised them.
I am waiting for the response to my grievance appeal but, off the record, have heard that the senior management are annoyed that I am persisting with this and that, if I take it any further such as ACAS mediation and a possible employment tribunal then they will contrive to terminate my employment.

I am shocked by the lack of integrity shown by the HR team, managers and directors involved but maybe I am being naive?

Do people on here have any faith in their company to act ethically in similar circumstances?

To makes things clearer I am not in a union and the issue does not relate to discrimination or similar.

HR’s job is to protect the company, not you.

Document everything you’ve seen and heard – constructive dismissal is really hard to prove, so start collecting any evidence, even hearsay, now.

I’m a civil servant. I have no faith in management, who are ultimately career pawns of the government. They can make all the right noises, but without resources and funding, can’t back it up.

I am shocked by the lack of integrity shown by the HR team, managers and directors involved but maybe I am being naive?

Yep, you’re being every naive.

Sad, but true.

HR’s job is to protect the company, not you.

+1

Who pays HR’s salary – you or the company?

A fair few folk at work take a union rep or a “witness” into meetings with management no matter what the meeting is about.. Tells you all you need to know.

HR not for the employee. mine are basically there to make sure the company don’t get taken to court they also close rank when they mess up. US owned company trying to duck under uk employment law.
Good luck but unless it’s life or death life’s to short

Another +1. I’d also add, HR’s role is to make sure that policies are followed and documented so you don’t have a case. But doesn’t mean they don’t screw up as well, so make sure they are following them and doing things properly.

Unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal is very hard, if it’s that nasty at work starting looking towards a compromise agreement might be the best option for both.

You can talk to ACAS about whether they’re following process properly without actually raising a formal process, but they won’t give advice on the case itself.

I worked in HR for a FTSE 50 corporate and they had a big HR legal team. Most of the cases where the employee won a claim, tribunal or legal case was a failure of the employee’s manager to follow HR process/ the law.
Familiarise yourself with the law (eg ACAS) to see if you have a valid claim. Sadly, being a dick/arse is not illegal. Keep a record of events / document things. Even if you aren’t in a union you are entitled to be accompanied on an formal meetings.

Thanks all.

What is really frustrating me is that the company must know that the issue I have raised would be resolved in my favour if it were to go to a tribunal so they are refusing to discuss it either informally or as part of the grievance.

I am not naive enough to believe that I could somehow stay at the company if the management want me gone which may already be the case.

It is a sickener to think of all the times I have gone the extra mile for the company and then realise how little I am actually valued by them.

I think I will have to start looking for somewhere new

Employer integrity – depends on the employer and how much they stand to lose.

in the past when I’ve worked for small businesses I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them.

Now that I work for a blue-chip, they know what their reputation is worth, and in any such situation I would expect them to behave ethically and do the right thing.

Would anyone care if you blew the whistle on your current employer?

Now that I work for a blue-chip, they know what their reputation is worth, and in any such situation I would expect them to behave ethically and do the right thing.

I hope you’re right

It is a sickener to think of all the times I have gone the extra mile for the company and then realise how little I am actually valued by them.

Unless you are in a very small family type firm, this is pretty universal. Even the name “Human Resources” basically describes it – you are a resource to them, nothing more. Just an annoying human one with “rights”, rather than a plastic resource like a printer which can be thrown in a bin when it doesn’t work as desired.

HR’s role is to make sure that policies are followed and documented so you don’t have a case. But doesn’t mean they don’t screw up as well, so make sure they are following them and doing things properly.

^^ +1 for that from @theotherjonv
About the only option you’ve got is to document everything that is happening and ensure they’re following protocol. Might be worth a discussion with Citizen’s Advice Bureau or similar – they’ve seen this stuff countless times before and know what they’re on about.

What is really frustrating me is that the company must know that the issue I have raised would be resolved in my favour if it were to go to a tribunal so they are refusing to discuss it either informally or as part of the grievance.

If you’re that certain then stand your ground on it. Document everything, also ask for their notes on the meetings and  what they hold on file about you (in respect of this matter) which is your right. I’d still try to avoid it becoming a tribunal matter, but make it clear you aren’t backing down but are prepared to discuss a compromise agreement instead.

As TJ’s obviously busy, are you member of a union?

I used to work for a US company and knew the UK HR manager quite well. Whilst it’s true that HR works for the company not the employee, a large part of HRs job is to stop mistakes by management becoming expensive e.g. US managers making people redundant without due process (because they come from a world where all you have to do is give 2 weeks notice).

A good HR person will protect the company by following the law which may well mean advising the company that they will lose when this goes to court. They can’t tell you this but if you have a good case as above document everything, follow process to the letter and they may offer to settle.

In any case, you need a new job. They should give the usual bland references, if they don’t they leave themselves open to a later case.

I am not naive enough to believe that I could somehow stay at the company if the management want me gone which may already be the case.

I suspect it won’t be fun…..

in the past when I’ve worked for small businesses I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them.

Now that I work for a blue-chip, they know what their reputation is worth, and in any such situation I would expect them to behave ethically and do the right thing.

Same here.

Murray is right, new job time. No outcome from this will count as a true win. As you haven’t disclosed what the issue is (which is fair enough) it’s difficult to tell whether they are being truly bad or whether you’re being unreasonable / unrealistic. I’ve unfortunately seen both behaviours. Either way save your sanity and focus on getting out rather than fighting a battle you can’t truly win.

I work for the NHS and in the last 2 years have seen a serious lack of integrity from organisations to both employees and patients

People just appear to not want to challenge the status quo or do the best / right things if it’s less effort to cover up issues

I think I will have to start looking for somewhere new

Honestly. Just do this now.

You’ll put yourself through hell trying to prove your point and it’s just not worth it. Life’s too short.

I talk from experience. I look back at that time now and chuckle that I took it so personally.

Whilst where I work like to portray a caring image and mostly manage this, they are also pretty hollow and adept at covering up and closing rank over inadequate management.

This is mostly why I haven’t lodged a grievance as the manager in question has had them against him before where they come to nothing and he just ramps up being an arse afterwards until people leave.
I’m in for the long game, it’s either going to be them or a full site mutiny.

For the OP, if you’ve gone beyond really giving one, I’d focus on stuffing them whilst making exit plans.

Either way OP, I don’t see your long term future being at this job.

From experience of a very close mate. Whether or not you win, lose or simply give up you’ll possibly become a marked man/woman. They could in the future make your position very difficult to the point where your easiest option is to part company with them or face disciplinary for anything they can trump up. Some employers can be sufficiently malevolent to do this.

Depending how deeply you’re mired in this it might be time change employers.

I’d suggest at this point the best outcome is a compromise agreement, aka sign this, here’s some cash, sod off. Clearly the employer don’t want to keep you and after what they have done would you still want to work for them? Tribunerals are expensive in legal costs, time and bad publicity so most places will just pay people off.

Jobs for life dont exist anymore. No allegiance or integrity exists now. Time to move on.

As Capt Jack Sparrow would say ‘Take what you can, give nothing back….’

Seen too many companies treat staff/redundancies like the Hunger Games. No company cares about you. Want to be taken care of? Become a shareholder, not an employee

Do not attend a “without prejudice” conversation unless you understand what that means (I didn’t). Do not turn up un accompanied to a meeting with your manager when there is a surprise visit from a HR person (clue you are about to be stitched up)

Unions are ok to have some one to talk things through with, and provide support on the law/process. Ultimately in my experience they are toothless though.

Agree with the “marked comment” however if you truely think you are in the right and your manager is basically useless it can work out ok. I was pretty sure most people thought my manager at the time was terrible, and as it turned out less than a year after I was shafted they were shafted too and left. I had slow reduction of responsibilities, moving of my teams and reports to other depts, more and more menial work allocated, until you get the job downgrade discussion and demotion to lower grade, took approx a year for new manager to do it to me.

I stuck it out as I knew plenty of people did rate me at the org and it was at the start of lockdown #1 when who knew what was going to happen. I moved depts and managed to get promoted back up a level (still below where I original was) and a small incremental rise, which would not have been payable if I’d level transferred or demoted myself, so it can work out. Still bitter about the experience, but it taught me some important lessons about thinking I had ‘friends’ at works and loyalty. I really really liked the job I had before the whole mess too, it’s really killed any form of trust / security with my employer I once felt. I don’t think it would be any better anywhere else, just I was naive.

Good luck by the way, decide what you want the outcome to be and focus on doing what you need to to get that outcome, try to set aside your feelings of right & wrong

My wife went through something ten or so years ago where the HR team were utterly useless. It was extremely stressful. Eventually we went to an employment law specialist, provided all the records and she got a year’s salary and we both took a year off to travel before having kids without having to worry about money.

Was it worth it for the stress? Hell yeah.

YMMV.

It can be just as bad from the other side. I’ve had experience of an employee going through the grievance policy just basically making shit up all the way to avoid the fact that they were about to be performance managed. Then long sickness periods, and hearings, and dealing with their union reps, and time and horse-shit all to get back eventually to the point of them doing the job they was supposed to be doing, then walking out leaving us high and dry. It was distracting, disruptive and endlessly time consuming and total waste of everyone’s time.

Just to point out. Know the procedures keep notes of everything ask for their notes. Do it by email. If no notes come from them write a “this is my understanding of the meeting is it correct?” email (answer by return please).

If the start to get things wrong, don’t follow protocol or refuse your asking for notes, don’t raise it or push it but note it and use it as a stick later.
No matter how dedicated or professional you are your employer would replace you with someone cheaper tomorrow if they could.

“Do it by email.”

I’d be extremely wary of this. .cc or .bcc your own personal account in on every transaction. Or even print them all out. I’ve known email threads to disappear when we’ve tried to go back for evidence gathering purposes. This may be innocent (we have a 30 day sent item mailbox retention period) or it may be malfarious (you can do all kinds of obfuscated delegation in exchange). I wouldn’t trust or depend on records in a corporate mail system as far as I could throw the exchange admin guy.

Now that I work for a blue-chip, they know what their reputation is worth, and in any such situation I would expect them to behave ethically and do the right thing.

Utter bobbins*

* based on a working for many blue-chips in many countries, up to and including at C-Level.

Can I add to this from an employer perspective? (Ie, Employee Integrity). Currently we have one member of staff who has had just shy of 50 days off since they joined us just over a year ago with either illnesses or emergency childcare.

Now that I work for a blue-chip, they know what their reputation is worth, and in any such situation I would expect them to behave ethically and do the right thing.

Just don’t dig too deeply then, i doubt there is a single blue chip globally that doesn’t have at least a couple of dozen skeletons in a (very large) closet somewhere.

Re email yes keep copies. If it goes to tribunal and they are missing some then….

Currently we have one member of staff who has had just shy of 50 days off since they joined us just over a year ago with either illnesses or emergency childcare.

You need to look into the mirror for the issue mate.

The company I work at now is really crap at ‘performance management’ too, too many folk taking the p*ss and poor quality management & processes to deal with them.

#slackers, all of ’em.

You need to look into the mirror for the issue mate.

Yeah thanks for that (not at all unexpected) response. For balance in the same time across the entire of our team of 12 we have had a grand total of two days off sick (ironically one of them being today).

So you are barking up the wrong flagpole ‘mate’.