I’m off to Himachal Pradesh in N India in June, planning on doing the Spiti Valley and possibly some other regions. I’m going with 1 friend and the idea is to have an adventure and stay flexible on plans. I will take my Sonder Broken Road and they will be on a titanium gravel bike. Currently I have 650b wheels but at 38mm internal width I wont be able to find any suitable touring tyres so planning on getting a 700 wheelset 25mm internal which should make us more matched using something like the Marathon Plus MTB tyre to cope with tarmac and unsealed road and more

I’m not sure on the sleeping side of things, we will take a tent etc but probably end up staying in accommodation of some sort in the villages along the way, so we may be able to charge phones/ lights/ batteries but I’d also like flexibility

As I’ll be getting a new 700 wheelset, wondering whether to go dynamo hub and charger , though I doubt we will be riding in darkness at all so wasn’t going to get a dynamo light this time. Would also be useful for future bikepacking trips, though a few days can easily be done with a power bank or AAA’s.

So with all the costs of a good setup (was thinking of going Son 28 on boost hub with a Cinq5) is this worth doing and any tips recommended? I would probably need a power bank to charge up too, or is it just easier to get a decent power bank and hope you can charge it at villages/ accommodation along the way? The whole dynamo/ chargers/ buffer batteries/ lights/ switches topic gets quite technical (yes I’ve read Alee Denhams articles)

TIA

Personally I wouldn’t because Dynamo hubs can and do fail ( mine seized its bearings) and they are not user serviceable.  for a trip like that you want everything to be user serviceable IMO

Agree with tj, if the worst came to the worst you could buy a torch and gaffer it to your bars, a knackered dynamo hu is game over (unless you canfind a wheel). Very jealous btw

Dynamos are great in my opinion. No more worrying about battery life, takes all the stress away.

They do take ages to charge anything though, so daily mileage and speed is a factor. Makes far less sense if you’re doing short days and staying in hotels.

Apparently more people have access to a phone than to a toilet. Every populated place you travel through will have some means of charging phones. Sometimes a just a little stall by the side of the road, but you won’t be the only one looking for power. So a battery bank, or even the internal phone battery may be enough for you. Only you know how often you will be encountering civilization, I’m not familiar with the Spiti area. I have travelled a lot in the mountains of Asia though, and I do use a dynohub (Shimano-Kemo-phone) to charge during the day. I probably don’t need it, but to finish the day with a fully charged battery would reduce anxiety significantly, especially if you rely on the phone for navigation (I don’t). I’ve not yet had a dynohub fail to spin (although one failed to generate power when new and got replaced).

Depends really how much camping you’re doing. Your dynamo choice is reliable by reputation but as stated nothing is foolproof. Best to have a few options.

or is it just easier to get a decent power bank and hope you can charge it at villages/ accommodation along the way?

Personal solar-panels (used for trickle charging power bank) are better than they were. Good-sized powerbanks can take many hours to get a full charge so if you are relying on charging via wall-socket then you’re potentially tied up waiting or having to make stops/stays just to charge. But for say three nights camping at a time a 20k+ mmah bank can cover a lot.

have a read here?

My personal suggestion is unless absolutely essential then take minimum electronics possible and then some, and so use as little power as possible. This way adventure increases as does freedom. Cycle-touring still happened way before all the e-gubbins.

I’d go with with a dynamo. Not having to rely on finding places to charge outweighs reliability imo. I don’t really think quality dynamos hubs are fundamentally less reliable than regular hubs – if your normal hub seized in the middle of nowhere, you’d likely be pretty stuffed too (unless you’re really paranoid and carry cone spanners/spare bearings/bearing extractors/etc).

Oh, there’s this too – https://pedalcell.com/

I’m still a bit sceptical of it, but all the reviews seem positive.

Pick the right dynamo. Dunno about SON but SP need the wheel striping to get to the bearings. Shimano are cup and cone, well my Alfine is, and you can do the disc side bearinsg easily. Not looked carefully at the right, charging side, yet

I’d look for a fast charging powrbank instead eg https://www.amazon.co.uk/ELECJET-PowerPie-20000mAh-Portable-Compatible/dp/B081S471NN

That will charge or be charged at 45w. You’ll only get 0.5w out of most dynamo setups unless you are going fast.

That will charge or be charged at 45w. You’ll only get 0.5w out of most dynamo setups unless you are going fast.

That’s just wrong. You’ll happily get at least 5W out of a dynamo at fairly modest speeds.

In hilly area a hub dynamo is not great because unless you exceptionally powerful and not carrying much luggage you will not be going fast enough to generate much power on the up hills, and the faster downhills do not make it up.

Better to stick to a powerpack that gets charged when you have a chance. Get a fast chargeing that uses the same spec of fast charger as your phone.

Tim

That’s just wrong. You’ll happily get at least 5W out of a dynamo at fairly modest speeds.

correct – its 0.5 amp IIRC at 12 v = 6w

Charge should be in amps not watts?

I’d go for the Pedalcell set up (better charge rates than a dynamo, not dependent on the wheel hub etc) and a large portable battery bank. Should give you a bit of redundancy.

I’m thinking of ordering a Pedalcell actually, as I’ve got two bikes I go camping on so it would be easier to swap over than changing wheels. I also don’t have a dynamo wheel to begin with and they are hard to find in 15mm axle guise.

Firstly, wow – an area I’ve idly mapped routes in over the years and would love to visit. Enjoy!

I’d fit a SON dynamo to any touring bike, perhaps unless you’re out there for years on end. I’d have a battery pack back up but I’d always have dynamo power on a touring bike as something I’ve found adds to my sense of freedom and independence. I’d be happy to offer a free phone charge to a local when stopped for food, etc. Spare battery capacity is a luxury.

I get 0.5A charge out of a dynamo, it drops when off-road on in the hills but it’s still a useful amount of charge over the day. Of course if you’re staying in guesthouses each night there’s enough time and charge points available to not need that.

If you’ve ridden areas like this before, ignore me here – if not, from some experience in Nepal I’d question slimmer-tyres gravel bikes on the dirt roads of the Himalaya. We found the roads outside of the main towns were often like the most rutted, bombed out byways you’ve ever seen. Much of it was like trad XC in Wales, not gravel riding. Queues of lorries with drivers playing cards and brewing tea while they wait for a balcony road to be cleared after a vehicle got stuck, etc. It’s an amazing world to travel in and I’d want my bike to be ready for it all. I’d take a rigid 29er with big tyres if I had the choice. Having said that I know Dervla Murphy, Ian Hibberd and many others could say I’m being soft.

Ah sorry I got my amps and watts mixed up!

It still takes aaggess IMO. Capacity of phones has got bigger, charging times have got quicker, but dynamos have stayed the same. I think they are useful only in rare cases.

Wouldn’t it make more sense to use a light / head torch you can use in other scenarios as well rather than one which is only useable on a bike?

Wouldn’t it make more sense to use a light / head torch you can use in other scenarios as well rather than one which is only useable on a bike?

If you read the OP, he’s not actually interested in lighting.

(But the answer is “no” – it makes sense to carry another source of light, but using a battery light alone only “makes more sense” if you have reliable and convenient external sources of power)

It still takes aaggess IMO. Capacity of phones has got bigger, charging times have got quicker, but dynamos have stayed the same. I think they are useful only in rare cases.

I’ve only really used them on the road, but I find they charge phones fine. It’s annoying if you want to be able to take pictures as you go, but I’ve run phone/gps/lights off dynamo alone for several days with plenty of charge to spare.

We found the roads outside of the main towns were often like the most rutted, bombed out byways you’ve ever seen. Much of it was like trad XC in Wales, not gravel riding.

This is a good point. Our last tour in Cuba was nothing like this bad, but we still only managed an average of 9mph due to unsurfaced roads and carrying panniers. The water alone was several kg as there were barely any shops for refills and it was the middle of summer.

from some experience in Nepal I’d question slimmer-tyres gravel bikes on the dirt roads of the Himalaya

I’d even question them on the dirt-roads of Wales 😳

Although OP did say they’d be using ‘Marathon Plus MTB’ which IIRC are 2.1?

I have similarly-sized tyres (29×2.2 Conti Race King Protection) on The Gravelbeast and have not yet met any sort of unsurfaced road they couldn’t handle. Would maybe prefer the extra puncture-resistance of Marathon+ for extended sharp/chippy routes but I like the lightness of the Contis.

(Sorry thread diversion)

I’d even question them on the dirt-roads of Wales

Fair / agreed!

Thanks for all the tips guys n gals

I’m actually slowly being converted to the pedalcell concept, not only because I can still use a self-serviceable hub (SON is manufacturer service but only after 50,000 km!) but also because you can move it to any bike or wheelset, and its supposedly even more efficient and better at slow speeds than the SON. It also means if the pedalcell dies you still have a normal set of wheels, and you can just take the system away from the rim and you have no extra drag, just a little extra weight.
As for tyres, I’ll be using my front suspension fork still so I’m thinking 2.1 inch should be fine, though I did see a video of some guys of fat or semi-fat tyres who were pleased with it but I just can’t bear the extra drag and need a good puncture resistant tyre.
It’s in June but I’m very aware of supply chain issues in the bike industry so trying to plan ahead

Best option i found for touring is to use your dynamo to keep a power bank charged. You can then have dynamo lights/gps power and battery back up lights, plus powerbank for charging phone etc / backup etc which you can do when you are sleeping.. from the powerbank, then when riding top the powerbank back up/

Managed 7 days offgrid / offroad in iceland if combination above – gives lots of flexibility- now ill admit was in summer so lighting need was very much reduced!

think whatever you do it i nice to have options. Pedalcell looks neat and could be used as above to keep power bank topped up

and its supposedly even more efficient and better at slow speeds than the SON.

It’s better because it’s not restricted by German regulations as it’s not a device built to power a light. What would be nice to see are dynamo hubs designed with the purpose of charging. I doubt it’ll ever happen but I can’t see why a hub dynamo couldn’t match the pedalcell’s output.

For what it’s worth I think my Son hub is around 13 years old now and still working well.

Well, I’ve gone against all my initial thinking and bought the pedalcell. Cheaper, higher output and can be used on all my bikes and wheelsets
Thanks for helping to persuade me, I’ve bought a normal powerbank 10000mAh and will see how it works before I go travelling

Result! Look forward to hearing of your experiences with the pedalcell if you choose to share ⚡️🚴‍♂️⚡️

@avdave2

I can’t see why a hub dynamo couldn’t match the pedalcell’s output.

yeahbutno..

It bends my (uneducated) brain which tells me that the pedalcell would be spinning faster and with greater (rotational) force/energy than the hub, but this is most likely nonsense because I’m maybe confusing one non-contributory effect (distance travelled around wheel-rim) with another non-contributory effect (centrifugal force)?

Where I also get confused is comparative leverage vs rotation-speed/rotating mass.

interesting article re rim vs hub

I’ve looked at the Velological offering before yet wasn’t aware of Pedalcell. Exciting times!

Well, I’ve gone against all my initial thinking and bought the pedalcell.

Please do come back and tell us what you think of it!

I doubt it’ll ever happen but I can’t see why a hub dynamo couldn’t match the pedalcell’s output.

I wonder if it’s a unloaded drag thing.

I was out bike packing in Himalaya a few years ago. The amount of places with electricity was huge even road side shacks. I had a power bank as most places will plug it in for youin my experience and it’s affordable to loose. I only had a camera to charge though.

I wonder if it’s a unloaded drag thing.

It could be that is an issue. I’m looking forward to hearing how the op gets on, the ability to move it between bikes and only fit it when needed are obvious advantages along with power output. Only downside is that it’s not as neat as a hub

Only downside is that it’s not as neat as a hub

I’d add slippage in wet/muddy conditions or at speed? Also rim-wear (even if only the anodising)

Wow amazing trip. Post a report / photos when you get back.

I’d add slippage in wet/muddy conditions or at speed? Also rim-wear (even if only the anodising)

Just what I was going to add. I remember having an old style dynamo like that which admittedly runs off the Tyre no the rim but still gets the same crap on it.

Charge should be in amps not watts?

Total pedant, but the unit of charge is the Coulomb…..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb

@captcaveman

How are you getting on with the pedalcell?

Well, the concept was great, and suited me to be able to use on any bike, or take it off and not have the weight or resistance of a dynamo hub.

We took it to India but didn’t need it for the first 3 weeks as we mostly had electricity. In the last week I decided to use it to charge my battery and devices which was fine. Then I plugged my friends battery in and the whole thing went dead forever.

I had an issue with testing it before the trip and eventually worked out that the battery pack I had, with an IN/OUT port was damaging the capacitors or other components. They were excellent and sent 2 replacements and I bought a new battery pack with separate IN and OUT ports.

But I didn’t notice my friend’s battery was an IN/OUT and the company had advised me that many of their clients used batteries like ANKER with IN/OUT ports with no problem.They told me it was my battery that was the problem, but the fact that a completely different battery had the same effect tells me that they have a serious flaw in their design, meaning that a battery will send out a voltage communicating with the device and kills the circuitry. This seems to me a major flaw, though if you could commit to only using ANKER or a battery with separate IN and OUT ports you’d be fine.

Their customer service was excellent and I got a full refund in the end. So I’m sad it didn’t work out for me but I can’t really recommend a product with such a serious and fundamental flaw. If they can put in proper protection for their circuit then I would be tempted. There is a German company, but their product doesn’t have such good output at the slower speeds. I’ll wait til my next big trip and just use battery packs til then