Managed to get a 2nd hand EX511 rim (no nipples or washers) and am aware that when bought new they come with both washers and their own alloy PHR nipples.

I’ve looked at DT Swiss recommendations and they recommend use of them (as they would £££), the washers being specific for the PHR nipples, but was wondering if anyone has built their rims up using brass nipples and no washers?
If so how long have you been running them like that?

I’d prefer brass nipples (having heard various times of alloy ones binding) and most shops nearby only use brass ones.

Thanks

I’ve never built a DT Swiss rim that requires washers without them, but have done them with conventional nipples more than once.

The nipples make next to no difference, the washers may well do.

Use the washers, for brass nipples you can either buy the brass Squorx ones from DT, or use brass Sapim nipples. The head shape is the same as the DT nips, whereas DT standard nipples are not the same shape.

If you are going to use normal brass Sapim nipples you will need slightly shorter than the DT calculator suggests, the thread is in a slightly different place.

The rim isn’t eyeleted – that’s why the phr washers are advised.

As above dt Swiss do sell brass nipples in squorx flavour if you’d prefer those to alloy.

I’m finding the alloy squorx no issues so far – built a wheel with them in 2018 – never had to touch it – and when I went to re-rim the wheel from 27.5” to 29” none of the nipples were corroded or seized.

Just buy the phr washers.
Without, I assume you’ll have to build at lower tension and have a less bombproof wheel.
Google says spokesfromryan for 8quid.

I think you definitely need the washers tbh, they’re a bit of the rim that just happens to not be attached. I had a bit of a look at mine and I reckon it’d build without them but the amounts of metal are pretty tiny in comparison to a normal uneyeletted unwashered rim.

I do build mine with normal nipples not the squorx, mostly because wheels are so much easier to build with an adjustable depth nipple driver. IMO the squorx nipples are 100% designed to be more convenient for wheel building factories, not with any thought for us. Sapim brass are pretty much the same shape as squorx where it goes through the washer so I use those, never had any isses with the wheels I’ve built that way, tbh I suspect any nipple would work just fine but it does feel nicer to use one that’s a similar shape

(as ever, I weigh nowt so do take that into account but they do get used reasonably hard so if there was a fundamental issue I’m pretty sure it’d have shown up by now. But they’ve been great- the rims are superb tbh and the nipples just seem to fit as well as anything does)

I once made my own spoke washers from standard stainless m4 washers and a nifty little bending jig to make them curved. Almost certainly not worth the time and effort but quite satisfying

Oh, BTW. I read somewhere that the DT Swiss squorx nipples use a more corrosion resistant alloy and a different anodising finish to “normal” aluminium nipples and should last the lifetime of the rim.
Having never built with them, and i’ve only got one (prebuilt) wheel that uses them, i have no idea on the reality of this claim!

Oh, BTW. I read somewhere that the DT Swiss squorx nipples use a more corrosion resistant alloy and a different anodising finish to “normal” aluminium nipples and should last the lifetime of the rim.

Same for Sapim alloy nipples, has been borne out by my experience with two different wheelsets built with them although I apply copper grease to the threads and of course will never know if brass would last longer as I tend to rebuild every couple of years anyway.

Back when I built wheels, I was never that bothered about using either aluminium or brass nipple, used to always use washers in non-eyeleted rims, night not need them, but can’t go wrong really

The difference between good alu and crap alu nipples is pretty big tbh, sapim and dt both have good options. But years down the line on a well used mountain bike you’re still going to wish they were brass ime. It just depends what lifecycles you expect, one advantage of neverending churn is that a lot of stuff doesn’t last long enough to wear out or seize 😉

I’ve built a few DT Rims with the Squorx nips\washers, after the initial faff of fitting them I did find the wheels built up a lot easier\nicer once tension was added. The spokes didn’t get as much wind up so didn’t have to stress\bed in the wheel anywhere near as much as normal. After a sensible amount of riding to try and bed them in fully I found the wheels either didn’t need any attention at all, or very minimal. That’s across the board with Road, Gravel and MTB rims in their range.

I’d happily use them every time with the DT rims

My 471s and 511s have all been built with phr washers and black squorx nipples. I also bought the squorx tool.

No issues apart from spending more on black nipples.