'if you can't keep up, you're dropped'.

if you came on a ride with me with that attitude i'd tell you to **** off and ride by yourself, you miserable tw4t.
🙂
suggest you either round up those who don't share that attitude and just let the head-banger(s) get on with it. it's supposed to be fun FFS, not some grim death march at a pace someone has decided is 'appropriate'.
understand your despondency, but the rest will fall away too, until the guys with the bad attitude are riding alone. stay in touch with the rest of them and ride how you want as a ( new ) group if necessary. the others will come around, or not. up to them.

Bike clubs urgh the thought gives me the shudders

They are populated by 4 kinds of people

the insanely fit and competitive who cant understand that you just dont fancy a 24 hour enduro you just want to go out and have a ride and a laugh

the frustrated politician as soon as they join they will start causing schisms and encourage infighting just so they can be club captain

The organiser as soon as they join you find yourself paying club dues buying lottery tickets and desperately trying to avoid buying a tacky nylon club jersey

The All the gear and no idea they turn up with 5 grands worth of kit are hysterically enthusiastic and bang on about the soul of mountain biking and how they made a deep journey within themselves and how they cleared the triple black diamond with skulls run at Whistler. Luckily they disappear the first time you go on a wet ride and take up another hobby.

Yup, totally agree. Clubs generally get formed because one or two guys are on some form of ego trip. Therefore the club becomes their baby, and everyone else is either too scared, or too apathetic to suggest changes. This just leads to a self perpetuating oligarchy, where the powers that be decide everything.

What you really need is the bottle to go out on your own. If you don't have it then you'll never find it. In that case look on various internet forums etc., to find just a couple of like minded souls to ride with just when you feel like it.

Beware though of internet based "not a club" type groups. Some of these are worse than full blown clubs. There's even one around that insists on an online interview before you are even allowed to look at their list of rides; so how do you know if you want to go with them? You don't, and they are making it a closed shop, ie:- a club by any other name.

This just leads to a self perpetuating oligarchy, where the powers that be decide everything

this need not happen, and although I conduct club business, lead half the rides and create most of the website, no one takes a blind bit of notice of my opinions beyond amused tolerance (which is fine with me) :o)

What you really need is the bottle to go out on your own.

I have the bottle but not the inclination. It's far more fun (for me) with others – like sex really 🙂

The advantage of a club is that drawing from 80 odd members, you can nearly always be sure of getting enough company for any ride you suggest, whatever the personal commitments of the individuals – and also the knowledge of routes and techniques becomes pooled for the benefit of everyone.

riding solo, is only going to lead to my skill levels going down the pan as I'm more and more likely to get off and walk the scary bits.

Might be a factor but really, what's the difference between doing it with someone watching and without? Are you really riding the type of stuff where an injury that you won't be able to walk away from is a serious ever-present risk?

what's the difference between doing it with someone watching and without?

but that's not what it's about – watching better riders encourages you to try harder! (and shows you how)

Have to agree with sfb there. I certainly ride harder and more technical stuff when with others. Not that I'm scared of injury when on my own; more the fear of looking a wimp if I don't ride what others can. But the benefits of being able to go where I want, when I want are greater than the "advantages" of being in a club, and having to do what has been decided by some clique in a meeting, or more likely by the clique after the meeting has ended when no-one can remember exactly what was said.

AGMs, Annual Dinners, ride planning meetings, rule books, committees, subscriptions, club weekends away. UGH, no thank you.

and having to do what has been decided by some clique in a meeting

in our case a clique defined by "whoever feels like going" – not that I much care where we ride – all the rides are good (barring a few rare nutter outings), but it's good to plan so we don't miss anything out, and everyone who wants to gets a chance to lead their favourites

as for "rule books", we do have some rules but I'd be hard pressed to say what they were beyond "members must have lots of fun on every ride"

We're not really arguing here – some people like to join in with others, some like to be independent, so it's no big deal. Loners are not forced to join and sociable riders are not excluded.

We're not really arguing here

Never thought we were. "One size fits all" doesn't apply!

Wot Simon says! Riding with the club, usually in a group of six or less, has really developed my riding to a point where I only need visit casualty once or twice a year. That's the biggest thing I'll miss, alongside the laughs. (just re-read that and it sounds like I'll miss my trips to casualty, that's not what I meant. 😆 )

I think I'm just a bit of a social animal at heart, and don't really see the fun in solo riding. Who do I share my Whisky with?

Actually, someone way back up there suggested forming a splinter group. Maybe I should cast around and see if there's interest in a secret Tuesday night meet. We could ride in a group at a friendly pace, chat and laugh, drink singlemalt…..and plot to overthrow the world order!!!!

B. 😈

I was going to join this club, then they stopped going out on Tuesday evening's, which unhappily is the only night I can make 🙁

It strikes me that a lot of the recent negative posts are like saying "I hate all mtbers because some of them are ****"

VanMan – fear not – I can only do Tuesday nights as well…I'm part of the club Beagleboy is talking about (but due to time commitments, I can't do the club rides…so I don't)…email in my profile if you want some more details…the club itself isn't bad, it's not draconian and is pretty much what you make it…like any large group of people there are various personalilities…some don't get on…and some do.

This isn't a go at Beagleboy, just an observation in general about large groups of people.

Just to redress the balance, riding hard and "dropping" other people is not a nasty thing to do per se.

As a runner we have a group that goes out Monday nights for a 10 miler. Members of that (fluid) group are aware that it will get faster and faster until only a small number will be "together" at the end. The others will have been shelled out at various points along the route to make their way back to the finish at their own speed.
It is not an unfriendly group just a regular session with clear aims. Easier training is done at other times. All are welcome for each run however it is well known that if you cant keep up and you join the Monday night session then dont complain!

posted in error

Amazed you didn't bail a long time ago Beagy, you sounded like you were having a hard time a few years back.

The 'few' that you talk of might be advocating faster, better scheduled rides to allow them to get back to their new families and commitments. Just a thought.

The club certainly has changed since I rode in it, not many youngsters these days, the kind that are keen to go out every night of the week with anyone. Most have moved on or gained responsibilities (see above).

Depends what you do, doesn't it?

If you just go for rides in the woods, then agreed, club is pointless. But certainly on the road, literally all the amateur road racing and time trialling is promoted and organised by clubs. A race happens, because the club is used to promoting it, there is some continuity of people organising and it just gets done, on volunteer time, organised, marshalled and supplied with tea and home-made cake by people who can be nagged into coming along to help out because they know that next Sunday they'll be racing and the members of another club will be standing by the road marshalling.

You could eradicate clubs from UK cycling, but it would look rather different.

Agreed with surfer about dropping people on training rides as well. It needn't always be a support group for the least able.

watching better riders encourages you to try harder

Can do, but it doesn't always work that way. If there's no pressure on you then you can ride stuff repeatedly, or pick out something easier or harder that might not be a regular feature on the club ride. Try it, you might like it.

To the OP.

Just think yourself lucky that you didn't join the orange shirted misserable nobbers that call themselfs my local club. 😉

I've done the club thing and am now generally pretty happily divorced.

Essentially "riding" is a solo activity. You ride up the climbs on your own (you might talk on an easy fire road or tarmac but who cares about them?; singletrack and descending certainly is. You only really chat when you're stopped, which is all too often in biggish groups.

My issue was that you'd do a 10 minute climb, then spend 10+ minutes waiting for the stragglers. Do a 5min descent – spend 10+ minutes waiting for the stragglers. All too often we'd end up doing way less than 20 miles in a 5hr+ ride. What *really* bugged me, is that it was always the same people you ended up waiting for – even after 10 years with the same bunch. Some riders improved enormously (good on them) others just couldn't be arsed*, and their attitude then affected everyone elses ride. For me it should be give and take. If the faster guys are going to have to slow down to wait for the slower ones, then the slower ones should be making every effort to get faster so we all meet in the middle.

Occasional group rides are fine, providing all the participants are of a similar average pace, but overall I ride harder and push myself further on my own – even on the scary stuff – there's more of an incentive to do it right first time if there's no one to pick you up when you crash. You just have to mtfu and BE as good as you think you are. There's also no one to affect your nerves by going "ooh that looks scary/I wouldn't do that if I were you" etc etc. There's just you, the bike and the trail. Bliss.

As far as motivation goes – isn't just being out on your bike in the hills enough to get you out?

*usually the same ones who turned up late, with non-working bikes that they expected someone else to fix and who needed to faff loads during the ride.

Essentially "riding" is a solo activity

yes, if you're a loner – otherwise you might ride in close company, chatting, egging each other on or following a more expert rider's line

but overall I ride harder and push myself further on my own

I find the opposite, on my own I bimble!

It's all gone wrong 😉
I thought cycling clubs were for roadies and MTB was the rebellious invidualistic side of cycling.
Eeee I remember the days when you could ride at Leith Hill with nary a sign of an MTB
and the South Downs were deserted apart from farmers, the odd red socker and rogue off-roaders.

I've always liked the freedom of MTBing from organisation but have been lucky enough to have enough mates who ride.
Currently these fall into two types of rider

1) those who like a casual ride, nothing to push them too far out of their comfort zone
2) those who like to push the limits and seek terrain / rides that take them out of their comfort zone

So I like the social rides that usually default into the 1) category with a little bit to keep those in the 2) category happy
but as a solid member of the 2) category I like riding on my own or with likeminded others

So find those people who are likeminded and have a loose collective and mix it up with some solo rides.

I find going out for long, long rides on my own really helps build confidence in my own abilities and also get a great feel for the bike – which brings it's own confidence.

I've done the club thing and am now generally pretty happily divorced.

Essentially "riding" is a solo activity. You ride up the climbs on your own (you might talk on an easy fire road or tarmac but who cares about them?; singletrack and descending certainly is. You only really chat when you're stopped, which is all too often in biggish groups.

My issue was that you'd do a 10 minute climb, then spend 10+ minutes waiting for the stragglers. Do a 5min descent – spend 10+ minutes waiting for the stragglers. All too often we'd end up doing way less than 20 miles in a 5hr+ ride. What *really* bugged me, is that it was always the same people you ended up waiting for – even after 10 years with the same bunch. Some riders improved enormously (good on them) others just couldn't be arsed*, and their attitude then affected everyone elses ride. For me it should be give and take. If the faster guys are going to have to slow down to wait for the slower ones, then the slower ones should be making every effort to get faster so we all meet in the middle.

Occasional group rides are fine, providing all the participants are of a similar average pace, but overall I ride harder and push myself further on my own – even on the scary stuff – there's more of an incentive to do it right first time if there's no one to pick you up when you crash. You just have to mtfu and BE as good as you think you are. There's also no one to affect your nerves by going "ooh that looks scary/I wouldn't do that if I were you" etc etc. There's just you, the bike and the trail. Bliss.

As far as motivation goes – isn't just being out on your bike in the hills enough to get you out?

*usually the same ones who turned up late, with non-working bikes that they expected someone else to fix and who needed to faff loads during the ride.

My thoughts exactly.

1) those who like a casual ride, nothing to push them too far out of their comfort zone
2) those who like to push the limits and seek terrain / rides that take them out of their comfort zone

I am both of these. In fact I think the identification of categories is pointless, as it has no predictive value. People are different, and what they want varies all the time too

So find those people who are likeminded

fat chance :o) And in the unlikely even of finding someone who thought anything like similarly to me – what would be the point ? Celebrate diversity and enjoy the interplay of personalities (or don't if you don't want to)

simonofbarnes, in general usage 'likeminded' does not mean identical. Most people have to deal with very different people in every other aspects of their lives, not least work, so I don't see why people shouldn't choose to associate with people with similar backgrounds and interests to themselves in their leisure time. I've been a member of a mtb university club, where everyone got on well and had a blast, and a random collection of people mtb club, where a number of people were so different one evening we had to stop a punchup that had developed in the pub after a ride. I quickly left that club, and now do my own thing. DaRC_L's comment strikes a cord.

Urm in 140 rides this year I've ridden with others on 12 of them – and half of those were races. Guess I'm more of a solo rider than a club one !!!! But would be nice to ride with people a little bit faster/better than me as that would help me to improve my riding.

I believe the day that sealed it for me was a club run where we took a shortcut through church grounds and the grounds keeper came out to chase us. He was a pretty old guy and pretty red in the face, and clearly pissed off that the club route went through his churchyard. There was no reason for the route to go that way as there was other ways to go. This could have been solved by going a different way and leaving him in peace, or by stopping and chatting to him, ask where he would prefer us to go and generally making a new friend. Not by the two most "offical" and "senior" members shouting "Land Reform Act" in his face and cycling off. No need at all for that and it sums up thier attitude really

I was on this ride, didn't some old bloke come out of his car ranting and raving and we all just ignored him and got on with the ride? It was really funny if I remember right. Personally I wasn't interested in making friends with him, I just wanted to get riding, I also don't remember saying or hearing the words "Land Reform Act".

Chill out rides on your own or in a group -it's all good!

😀

Most people have to deal with very different people in every other aspects of their lives, not least work, so I don't see why people shouldn't choose to associate with people with similar backgrounds and interests to themselves in their leisure time

especially if you end up trying to punch nonconformists…

Clubs can get very 'cliquey' and that can lead to perceived unfriendliness, I am fortunate that there are a few groups in my area that I can choose to ride with, depending whether I fancy a blast, or a more social ride. I tend to go more 'social' as I can always blast it anytime on my local, from the door trails.

I know what you are trying to say, search for other local groups but don't sevre your ties with anyone completely – unless things have really become personal.

Try and work out a short-ish local ride 90-120 mins that you can do solo, after work in the summer or when ever, and ride with a group maybe once a week?

So I went for my first solo night ride in a looooong time last night. I completely bottled a wee rocky chute that I normally never think twice about and I nearly keeched my pants when a dog walker stepped out from behind some trees on the fast rocky descent through Torwood.

Sorry, don't really see the fun in it at all. A wee bit too much time for introspective soul searching (boy, I'm not a very nice person 🙄 ), and not enough time spent pointing and laughing at other riders misfortune.

I did go a fair bit faster, with shorter breaks than I would on a club ride though. Mind you, a lot of that could have been down to sheer bloodyminded anger, after a run in with a gang of 14 year old chavs on my way to the trails. Eugenics is highly under rated you know. 👿

So, getting back to the original point, I need motivation to go solo night riding. If I can't find it under 'bike accessories' in Chain Reaction. Where can I find it? 😕

With a portable music player…my solo rides tend to be done with music in my ears…I get lost in the music and suddenly realise where I've cycle to…the music doesn't drown out any other noise…I can still hear traffic and just make out someone talking to me, but the earbud headphones are enough to put some tunes in my head and stop me thinking of negative thoughts of solo riding…I find I tend to ride a slightly more technical line and don't f@nny around in my head talking myself out of riding somewhere.

Not everyone will agree, but it works for me.

Solo night riding, now that is a different kettle of fish. Weirwolves start to become a reality!

Instead of all the introspective hand wringing why dont you just post up and ask if anyone else here rides in your area?

Oh and mtfu will you – it's depressing.

Night riding on your own is pretty depressing even with music.

You know where you can find people to go out with on tuesdays. If it wasn't for Pete we'd never get our arses out the door either (not that i'm out much at the moment either).

Chin up lad – worse things happen at sea 🙂

Night riding on your own is pretty depressing even with music.

I enjoy it, even without music.

worse things happen at sea

it's hard to tell the difference these days 🙁

Actually, I did end up in the sea last night, very briefly before the quicksand took hold…

Yep night riding is fun – the trails are (mostly) empty.

Hmmm motivation to go night riding – do they sell self-motivation at CRC?
I must admit having an 'event' – whether it's a race, a big day out or just not wanting my mates to kick my butt at the next meet up – is my motivation whilst solo riding.

SofB I too am both of those in my earlier post (and more given a full moon and the right cheesy-comestibles) but every person has a certain type they will tend to more than others in a Myers-Briggs kind of way…
although anyone who sees a conspiracy of triangles is probably dodgy.

although anyone who sees a conspiracy of triangles is probably dodgy

if you think triangles are bad watch out for the Machiavellian dodecahedrons 🙁

@Beagleboy
> Which has led to a culture of 'if you can't keep up, you're dropped'.

Beagleboy, are you secretly a member of some other bike club in the area? I don't recall that we ever dropped anyone who could not keep up on any club ride I have ever attended; people occasionally get lost in the dark, but we always strive to ensure everyone is OK. (Mind you I was really worried about getting dropped and bruising my a*s when the guys carried me of the top of the 'Yat with a broken ankle, uncaring and unfriendly lot they are …)

> I can fully understand why their attitude has changed, and I sympathise with it,
> but I don't like it.

You either do not understand the attitude, or have misrepresented it on this public forum. It's never been about dropping people behind, it was about not every official ride being a slow social pedal-along. The fact you could not see the need for this while being the official MTB Rep in the club is somewhat unfortunate for all concerned.

@Heather Bash
> Instead of all the introspective hand wringing

Get used to it, plus some of his stories are not half bad.

> why dont you just post up and ask if anyone else here rides in your area?

Well, he knows a great deal of people who ride in his area, but in a grandiose gesture worth of EastEnders (or should that be River City ?) he just announced to the world that he is divorcing us … he is old enough to have known that starting this thread on ST was going to reflect badly on the Club in question, and unlike the ST audience the folk in his area have some clue to how things got to be this way. Talk about placing oneself in an awkward situation (not beyond repair, I am sure, but you know how it is with exes) …

Pish like this is why I ride alone