Thinking of giving up trying to get stock sized carbon to fit and going down the route of custom built steel 953 or Ti. IF has always been my big dream bike builder, but they are now seeming to becoming a bit “corporate” and so Firefly have sprung up. Both of these costing around £3000 for frame and forks give or take a couple of hundred.

UK builders however, much more affordable, Rourke, Jackson and Mercian all do 953 (Mercian lugged only, so look a bit old skool for my liking) about £1000 – £1500 less but with loooooooooooong lead times (up to 9 months rather than 10 weeks for US stuff)

So, whats the thinking ? Trade off only timing and get a bargain, or are English frames all built “in the past” ????

Oh and I know its STW but I’m after a road frame, not a MTB this time !

Any thinking on this ??

Oh and I know its STW but I’m after a road frame, not a MTB this time !

Don’t think this is an MTB site anymore so not to worry…

I’d go with a UK builder if I was you, longer lead time maybe, but sensible pricing and you can pick up the phone and talk to them, I know a couple of people who’ve had custom Mercians and loved them, and they do, do a “Lugless” frame now too…

I bought an IF because I really wanted something timeless (how nieve was I!) and because I wanted something as close as I could get to the bike I lusted after when I had no money. Things like Fat Chance, Ibis, Merlin, etc.
To be honest, none of those things really apply to road bikes for me, so it’s difficult to advise.
With bikes of this category, I think it’s too personal for anyone to advise you, other than to say that they will all build great bikes which fit you – the rest is about appreciation of their work, history, etc.

When it comes to road bikes, those Vanilla’s get me going. Seven never did it for me. I prefer craft over technology for these types of purchases.

Have you considered http://www.enigmabikes.com/ ?

English frames are built “how you want them” – you’ll get full custom on 953.
I’d only go US for a custom Ti (this is a big generalisation as there are lots of nice Steel US frames out there, and just because I’d like an Eriksen or a Potts) but if you don’t have to have a particular brand why waste the extra cash? If you really want an IF or a firefly, buy one, but under the paint (or shiny metal) finish there’s not going to be much to separate them from a British built frame. A local guy has a 953 Rourke and it’s lovely.

If it all goes wrong, it’s a lot less hassle to deal with a British builder as well.

I’d go have a word with Brian Rourke, if you’ve not been there it’s well worth a visit – there’s always been 953 bikes/frames in the shop to look at – sometimes Sean Kelly’s or Brian’s bikes – they’re well nice, pictures really don’t do the justice – go see them in the ‘flesh’ they really are very very nice – lightweight modern classics.
I have a Rourke 853 hardtail – couldn’t be any more pleased with it – Brian & all the staff are really friendly & know their stuff – even if you don’t buy from them you’ll get great advice.

Also – don’t forget that if you stay this side of the pond – you’ll get measured/fitted rather than sending measurments (although IF dealers will measure you) – Brian will probably sit you on a bike rather than a jig – see how you look & ask you how it feels etc – advise on cleat positions, bars, stems…..

Cyclefit are [AFAIK] agents for a couple of Italian custom builders

That would at least give you some middleman to deal with in the UK + the ability to try the geometry

Thats really kind of you guys, I am feeling that maybe I am “states”centric when it comes to bike tartery, but (as an Aussie) I am massively proud of England and all we do here, so maybe I need to take the blinkers off. I have also been talking to Kevin Sayles at Woodrup, a good Yorkshire company if ever there was one ! And they sound great, a bit more pricey, but definitely one for the heirloom bike.

Rourke is someone I had never even considered till today, I really liked the guy I spoke to, they seem to be realistic and honest. I love that approach – something I have also found with Kevin at Firefly and before when he was at IF.

So, stainless vs Ti ?? Anyone got thoughts on that one ????

uplink, I know all about Cyclefit and helpful as Phil and Julian are (and they really are) they really sell to very wealthy City types. Those bikes are sooooooo expensive, Passoni over £5000 a frame and Serotta similar. Too exxy for me !!!

there’s always XACD for one-off Ti bargains. Lead time about 6 weeks apparently.

Info (from a buyers perspective) here: http://www.spanner.org.uk/

So, stainless vs Ti …..
Ti…. more choice in usa….
….953 is s’posed to be as good?? Even looks like Ti.
If you have a full 953 frame built in the uk you WILL have a TRULY Uk made bike & if you go to Rourkes you’ll have a Midlands made bike – Yes folk from Stoke will tell it like it is without bs – great people. Not from there myself but wifes family from that area.

Check these out! Well worth a look and UK to boot http://www.donhoubicycles.com/

You could always go to the Hand Built bike show in Bristol next month as well.

custom built in the peaks try these …

Have you looked at Enigma? They do a particularly nice Stainless Steel frame which has garnered very favourable reviews.

You also don’t have the trauma of import duty and VAT on top of your purchase price. What you pay is what you’re quted by the UK builder.

I have a Fat Chance Yo Eddy Team(nice bike, steel) but I probably wouldn’t go with IF as a UK builder can build just as well for less money and you have the bonus of being able to visit them if you feel so inclined.

I doubt many of the american builders will have the experience of UK legends such as Rourke or Cliff Shrubb

You really seem to be paying lots extra for the down-tube sticker cachet with Tig welded American IFs and the like.

Look at Demon Frameworks – a beautiful blend of old and contemporary IMO. And a fair price.

http://www.demonframeworks.com/

leggyblonde – Member
You really seem to be paying lots extra for the down-tube sticker cachet with Tig welded American IFs and the like any custom frame in regular geometry.

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UK builders however, much more affordable, Rourke, Jackson and Mercian all do 953 (Mercian lugged only, so look a bit old skool for my liking) about £1000 – £1500 less but with loooooooooooong lead times (up to 9 months rather than 10 weeks for US stuff)

I’d be very wary of the quoted lead times on stuff from the US. I’ve ordered two custom american made frames which have involved long waits.

One of them was ordered in October 2008 and arrived in May 2009 and I’m still waiting for a frame that was ordered in September 2010.

I haven’t got a problem with the wait myself, but just a warning to not take quoted lead times as gospel.

quite true Mr Al.

The OP does say this though if you care to look at the top of the page:

Thinking of giving up trying to get stock sized carbon to fit and going down the route of custom built steel 953 or Ti.

Why not go custom carbon and get a Parlee?

good point FuzzyWuzzy, WyndyMilla could also be worth considering

Have you considered http://www.enigmabikes.com/ ?

+1 Beautiful handmade bikes, they have an open day this Saturday 14th, I’m off to look at the Ego.

Have a look at Robin Mather. He doesn’t build 953 frames, only 853 IIRC, the lead time will be ridiculous and his website says he isn’t taking orders, BUT he build beautiful frames and likes making road bikes.

If I were going for a road bike I’d probably go with Rourke from your list, as I’m not up on road geometry, and I’d be confident in them. You would have to be fine with just TIG welding though as they don’t do brazing IIRC. If I knew exactly what I wanted then Kevin Sayles – either fillet brazed steel or lugged 953 would be my choice, again from your list of builders.

I have an Enigma mtb but it isn’t quite built up yet so can’t comment on it really. It isn’t strictly custom for me, although it is unique, as I bought the one-off fillet brazed ex-demo that STW reviewed.

My experience of custom (mtb) frames so far, is know what you want and make sure the builder agrees to make it to your specifications. Produce a drawing. The reason I bought the Enigma (a bit of a rebound purchase and it was half price – which helped of course) is that another builder/company made a right hash of my custom frame project and I didn’t accept it – wasn’t anything like my drawing and specs and had serious flaws. I won’t name any names but safe to say that the company hasn’t been mentioned up to now on this thread.

Mather was my original choice, but despite being on his ‘list’ and agreeing to make a start on the consultation stages by at least over a year ago, ignoring all my emails, I’ve decided he wouldn’t be the best choice – should anything go wrong or I needed a repair. Commuincation is key.

All the best

Why not go custom carbon and get a Parlee?
If you want a custom carbon – how about a Viner hand made in Italy!! – I’m prety sure that their top 3 frames ar available as custom – Actually the Mitus & Maxima are definately available as custom bit not 100% sure of Perfecta! – Lead times aren’t too scarey either -Very nice bikes.
I have this dilema too!! Custom steel – Rourke – or Viner!!

I can second Tom @ Demon Frameworks.

Very good mate of mine and his work is sublime – his attention to detail is second to none.

He’s also one of the nicest people you will ever meet.