Convince me to go Tubeless.

Been thinking it about it for a while, can people list the pros and cons and convince me to try it.

cons – it’s no lighter and in order to not roll tyres (or burp air) too high pressures are required (for me).
Pros – dunno?

Go for Stan’s rims and go tubeless using any old tyres.

It will then end up a lot lighter than UST.

Going Tubeless on Stan’s was the best thing I can remember doing to a bike.

Having had two punctures on my rear tyre of my singlespeed on Sunday, I can see the advantage of puncture-proofing in some cases.

IMO its the sealant which is the good bit, I did it cuz of thorn punctures. Havent had one since I switched.
I dont really care about weight and TBH havent noticed a difference in that or grip. Only gone down once but it blew back up and resealed.

I use 819 rims and Bonty tubeless tyres. Blow straight up no probs.
Lack of UST tyres is a bit rubbish, Ive also used Stans strips and normal tyres on UST rims, they area faff to blow up first few times but you do learn how to do it.

Its not one for serial tyre switchers.

I’ve had tubeless for at least 5 years now, Mavic UST rims with michelin or maxxis UST tyres, run at low pressures sometimes and i’ve never had them burp…
Ride DH courses and other silly stuff regularly, i’ve had three punctures, pumped it up to about 60psi and carried on riding twice, the sealant has sealed puncture and i’ve been able to pump up a bit and carry on, most recent was because the o-ring had perished on the valve..

Does need to be done properly though, those tubeless kits seem a bit pointless, they usually weight more than a tyre and tube anyway….

dont bother…i cant be arsed

No punctures for over 18 months on 4 wheels, ‘2 full UST 819 rims & proper tubeless tyres’ 1 uses a Stans kit with tubeless ready Michelin & 1 with a full ghetto setup with a non UST Tioga tyre.
I have run as low as 18psi in the rear for superb grip up rooty climbs that I could never clear before.
Weight is about the same but dosen’t bother me & cost, well I needed 2 new tyres & was building a new set of wheels anyway so not a lot more really.
No problem seating or fitting Mich, Maxxis, Halo, Tioga, or Panaracer tyres (but I do have a small compressor) I wouldn’t change back to tubes.

Pros – 2 punctures in 2 years. Outweighs all the cons for me.
– Can run lower pressures for better grip in the wet

Cons – changing tyres can be a faff cos you have gunk to clean up. Same goes for fixing punctures.
– Tyres are more expensive.

Last night I moved my Bonty tubeless tyre from one wheel to another, with gunk still in. It took about 5 mins, no tubes to put in, put on with fingers etc.

Couldnt you just use a light 100g tube and 100ml of white stuff in it to stop getting punctures? total weight of about 200g, thats the same as a normal tube, and without the ghetto faffing…

Gone ghetto on three different wheels. As long as you’ve got a compressor it really is fantastically easy. I use a cut down 20″ tube for a rim strip but have heard of people using nothing more than duct tape and a ust valve. Takes about 30 mins first time. I run my ss on them, 30 psi fully rigid. Was sick of getting pinches in the peaks. It rolls along fantastically now.

I’d definitely recommend going ghetto, even just for the fun of it! Will cost you less than a tenner to give it a go, if you think it’s stupid then go back to tubes and you haven’t spent loads on a specific wheelset, tubes etc.

Do it!

p.s. Check this out
http://www.farkin.net/forums/showthread.php?t=128521&highlight=ghetto

tinsy, wouldn’t protect against pinches like tubeless does which imo is the biggest advantage of the system.

I have UST rims with Bonty rim strips, valves and Bontrager tyres and use Wheel Milk.

Pros – One puncture in 2 years. Grip seems better even with same pressure (is it just me, am I deluding myself) the tyres seems to deform and grip around objects much better than with a tube? Weight I guess.

Cons – A (bit of a?) faff changing tyres, although it’s a pretty good workout getting the tyres up to pressure with a track pump.

Bimbler, I reckon they could be grippier at the same pressure certainly. Dynamically, there’s less material to deform and so less retardation force present due to material damping. The response speed of the tyre is therefore quicker and can change shape at a higher frequency than a tubed system.

Wiredchops- you just made some words up.

super ghetto
less of a faff than it sounds, done 3 sets of wheels so far and loving it. I used stans rims and standard conti MK and Slash.There is a definate feel of more grip and better rolling resistance for a given psi.
do get a compressor tho 2.5 hp with adecent tank 25l then you have plent of spare capacity without the compressor working constantly

I find that assertion to be conflibularatorious to my perfunctions if I’m honest.

If you have Stans rims and their rim strip, it’s super easy. Tyre on, sealant in, pump up. If you have other rims, you’ll need CO2 or a compressor. You can run lower pressures (I do, never had a burp) and they do roll noticably faster. I have 2.0 Racing Ralphs tubeless on my race bike and it is noticably faster and zingier.

I can change tyres easily on that bike with Schwalbe treads, Stan’s rims and a track pump. On other bikes I need CO2 but it’s still very easy, jut more costly.

As for weight, well I didn’t save any on my race bike because I was using super light rim tape and super thin tubes. On my big bouncer though, I was running Kenda Nevegals (slow tyres) and thick tubes. Tubeless has saved me 3/4 lb and the bike really climbs much much better now. It was a right slow bugger before, now it’s fine. A lot nippier and more enjoyable out on the trails both up and down 🙂

In my experiance using it for DH (including a season in the alps on tubeless) and a trail bike with fairly well sized sturdy tyres:

Pros:

Very low chance of a flat if you run sealant.
Better comfort and apparent tyre grip.
Can run high tyre pressures for the same feel.
Lack of inner tube and higher tyre pressures makes it roll faster.*

Cons:

Requires more effort to setup.
Not ideal for compulsive tyre swappers.
Ideally requires a compressor for stress free fitting.
Tyre can burp air on very big hits or railing berms hard. #

* I’ve tested back to back identical dh tyres running tubeless or running standard xc tubes. It’s a big difference.

# This can be reduced dramatically with careful setup. Ghetto tubeless being the most reliable if done correctly.

The main reason I run tubeless is for the faster rolling tyres and better feel/comfort.

Sorry – idiotic question perhaps, but what exactly is “ghetto”?

If you have Stans rims and their rim strip, it’s super easy. Tyre on, sealant in, pump up. If you have other rims, you’ll need CO2 or a compressor

I’ve got Mavic USTs, they’re different. Never needed a compressor, could probably pump up Bontys/Maxxis with a minipump.

I have been using Ghetto tubeless for a year now and the only puncture I had was when I removed a thorn in front of an audience to show off the sealing properties of the system. Down she went – sealant had dried out(V porous Conti tyres).Alex dp17s/ACX & Pan TR.

I got some Bonty strips,valves and sealant recently and these went on and pumped up ridiculously easy with some reasuring “pings” as the beads located into the rims. WTB Laser trails/ACX & Pan TR.

Try these cheapskate methods first before buying the expensive kit.

Gone ghetto on three different wheels. As long as you’ve got a compressor it really is fantastically easy. I use a cut down 20″ tube for a rim strip but have heard of people using nothing more than duct tape and a ust valve. Takes about 30 mins first time. I run my ss on them, 30 psi fully rigid. Was sick of getting pinches in the peaks. It rolls along fantastically now.

I’d definitely recommend going ghetto, even just for the fun of it! Will cost you less than a tenner to give it a go, if you think it’s stupid then go back to tubes and you haven’t spent loads on a specific wheelset, tubes etc.

Do it!

I’m just about to try it on my new bike – It came with Spesh “2Bliss” tyres and the bits have only cost me £14 for both wheels. If it works and I like it I’ll get some proper rim strips late. Gotta be worth a try.

There’s a vid on You Tube of a young American guy showing how to do the conversion, which is worth watching.

you really dont need rim strips or even ust valves, just cut the valves out of old tubes and use insulating tape as per my link

20″ BMX tube system here on non UST rims & tyres.
Working perfectly, hasnt lost any air in the last 3wks.
Impressed.

Gone ghetto on 2 wheels now, easy to do, feels better on the trail except….

Any puncture bigger than a thawn prick wont seal before all the goo is blown out anyway and you’re left with a manky wet latexy tyre. You get better grip and maintain rolling ease if you run a low pressure but at these pressures I find im constantly dinging rims and burping the tyre off the rim when cornering, so I have to pump it up more, sacrificing grip again.

Gone back to tubes, but constantly getting punctures at the mo. Cant decide which is the better weavil.

it is lighter cos all you are using is about 70g of sealant, an old valve and a bit of tape and you are removing the old thick rimstrip

I’ve got a set of ghetto swampies on one bike and proper UST High rollers on another. 18 months one puncture (Conti vert ripped sidewall). Previously I had at least one a week.
If you go proper UST then unless you are really unlucky punctures will become history. ISTM that the main downfall is when people try to lighten things up and use thin or light tyres at low pressures.
I don’t think if you do it properly it’s a real weight saving but for puncture resistance, grip and feel it rocks.
When a new bike arrived recently I rushed out on it and had 2 punctures where ordinarily I do 70 odd miles a week trouble free. It just reinforced to me that I will never go back to tubes.

This has to be the ultimates convincer!

Ghetto 2years on 2 bikes. had one rear burp once chasing my mate down a DH trail, him on a enduro me on a pace hardtail. So no complaints.
When i changed to winter tyres last year i had 6 big thorns in the front alone.

This has to be the ultimates convincer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_BsT8D9JYY

hmmmm Julia Fitness Chick 2 – ponders joining gym

WOW! Yeah snaps that is pretty convincing.
I can get some Bontrager wheels that are pretty cheap and will run normal or UST but will i have to change my tyres to UST or is there a way round it?
I currently run Panaracer Rampage’s 2.3

Go on…. I’ll be your friend!!

Job done?

I may have been unlucky, but Stans for me has been pretty useless. 2 thorn punctures, and a flint slashing the sidewall in the first 3 rides after I fitted it, meant 3 inner tubes fitted trailside, and quite a lot of laundry time to get the latex off my shorts. I’ve had two valves come off the strips (never had a regular inner tube do that) which has meant two more inner tubes…Fitting tyres can be an exercise in futility, as if one tyre goes up without stress, you’re pretty much guaranteed that the next one won’t seal. Using a compressor? OK, but it seems to me, that as soon as you accept that you need one to inflate a bicycle tyre, you’re pretty much admitting that the system has some pretty major drawbacks.

Having said that, the one huge advantage of tubeless is the low pressure you can run tyres at, it really is a revelation, and nearly worth all the hassle, which is way I’ll be investigated proper UST systems before the Summer.

Yes I think it’s the future, rim strips are an Evolutionary dead end though

This has to be the ultimates convincer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_BsT8D9JYY

Aye, that erm….seals it! Sorry.

Julia too muscley for me. Toned = good. Ripped = bloke like.

Mavic UST rims for Christmas with Nobbynics I love them only 30g lighter (with latex in them) per wheel than tubed XC pros but no punctures and a great feel

I’ve had ghetto tubeless nevegals / blue groove, for the past year. It did take a bit of getting the hang of, but they both went up with a track pump in the end.

I’ve had no punctures, no pinch flats, no tyre burps, no re inflation of soft tyres, nothing. The tyre feels better, seems to give more grip, not much lighter though if I’m honest.

The only reservation I have, is that if I do ever get a puncture, it’ll be a nightmare to remove all the thorns in my tyres that didn’t previously result in a puncture before I put the new tube in….

UST tyres are not so great tho, since you would probably run sealant in them anyway and they are very heavy.

2 thorn punctures, and a flint slashing the sidewall in the first 3 rides after I fitted it

Surely a flint slashing your sidewall would’ve meant problems with tubes also?

I’ve had two valves come off the strips (never had a regular inner tube do that)

I’ve had that happen quite a few times – to tubes. Both in the garage and out on the trail.

The compressor/CO2 thing is a drawback, but like I say it’s only some rims that need it. I can do my Stans/Schwalbe every time with just a few pumps of the track pump. It’s so easy that I’ve changed tyres mid-24hr race, quite a few times.

The extra speed is a major plus if you race, or if your bike’s otherwise slow and ploddy. I’ve got tubeless on my race bike and my big bouncer (cos it was slow on the climbs), but not on my everyday bike mainly because I want to use Trailrakers and they have a loose bead – they went up fine, but I worried about them coming off so I put tubes back in.