and by subconscious, I mean all the instinctive, millisecond, by mililsecond decisions you make without being aware of it. Which cubicle do you go to in the toilets? Which end of the urinal, door or wall? front or back of the bus? left or right cheek when you go to kiss someone? Coke or Pepsi? Daz or Bold?

These aren’t things you spend a lot of time thinking about, if any at all, and part of the branding exercise is get behind your conscious to make you predisposed to buying something, just because you have a degree of familiarity and comfort about what you’re getting.

So when you go into the newsagents, see all the drinks, clock the cans of Coke and think “Yes, that’s what I fancy!” without really weighing up the pros and cons of each drink.

But now that you know what it is, you think it might have got you sometime?

Charlie – I believe in plain English and clear communication not gobbledegook / jargon that tries to sound like it means something

It’s good stuff. Is it the long words confusing you? 🙂

Charlie – I believe in plain English and clear communication not gobbledegook / jargon that tries to sound like it means something

Sure, but no one actually asked you about that.

You can give it some plain English term if you like, but we’re all talking about the same thing

Tom sayer effect – not that I can think of.

Ned – thats not any description of subcinciious I would recognise.

TJ, ,bear in mind that he’s trying to create a brand in the eyes of winky creative types (my words not his), you’re not his target audience here, although you might be indirectly sometime…

Tom sayer effect – not that I can think of.

Brand advocates? Fanboys? Fashion?

binners – Member

Five undred! We made it TJ. ets ceebrate. But what with? Hmmmmmmmmm….

I’d like to thank everyone without whom this would not have been possible.

Binners for his support in times of need, Ned for his biting satire, charlie for being the gift that keeps on giving……..

Really don’t think so Charlie – not since I was a kid anyway.

Oh I see it was all an elaborate hoax! How novel! I’ve never come across this before!

TJ, we’re crossing, but: What?

We make decisions for various reasons, some of those reasons are in our conscious mind, some aren’t.

What more is there to get?

CharlieMungus

You can give it some plain English term if you like, but we’re all talking about the same thing

~can you really – go on then.

here’s one of my favourite “now I see it” logos, the german eagle:

Ned =- that stuff is a whole ‘nother debate and “subconscious” is not the word I would use to describe it, Subconscious has a meaning in psychoanalysis and in a load of other related places – which is why I asked you to define what you mean ‘cos I thought you mean Freuds version of subconcious. What you describe would be unconcious decision making to me.

You can give it some plain English term if you like, but we’re all talking about the same thing

~can you really – go on then

you seem to have confused You with Me, here.

Really don’t think so Charlie – not since I was a kid anyway

I think I can believe that you really don’t think you are influenced by marketing at all. The irony is that this as well as you ignorance of some basic marketing techniques allows highlights a great irony in that your stance throughout this thread has been that you are so aware of marketing and its influence that it does not affect you, whilst in reality you seem to be less aware of it than the average citizen. Most of us know that we are being bombarded with sales material all the time. It helps us to be a bit discerning when making choices. You are seem to be unaware of this, unable to see it when it is happening and therefore falling hook, line and sinker for it, consuming whilst being utterly convinced that you do so with a great deal of autonomy and free will. The Man 1 – TJ 0

Edit – crossed posts.

So, went to bed, and woke up to 500+ posts. Wondered just how STW could be so into logos, then realised TediumJeremy had been moaning. So the 500+ posts of nothing wasn’t such a surprise….

fair enough, I bow to your superior knowledge of the definitions. substitute “subconscious” for “unconscious” in my previous posts.

Well said CM. Night night!

Charlie – you simply fail to understand my point. I am aware of the marketing techniques – I chose to ignore them. I see the sales techniques everywhere – so I can discount them.

a part of what you fail to understand is that I am not paying your game at all. I don’t play the consumerist game.

You have been really closed minded here and refuse to realise that there are many people who do this. I seek out objects for what they are not for what they are branded as and I understand the difference between the object and the referent

i don’t own branded goods. i don’t buy new consuer duarables or proiducts. all my bike bits come secondhand when possible.

Edit – what sort of things do you think I buy ‘cos i fall for the marketing?

i don’t own branded goods. i don’t buy new consuer duarables or proiducts.

I see the booze is kicking in.

I chose to ignore them.

No you don’t, unless you willingly chose to be brain dead or blind and deaf. You can kid yourself you’re untouched by it, but you’re not. It’s like people who say they don’t judge people. Of course they do, everyone does. It’s human nature.

realman – or perhaps thinking and discerning? You know – capable of free will and of making my own mind up?

It’s sub concious, beyond our control.

Well, I just brushed my teeth, using colgate toothpaste and an oral b brush. What an experience! 😀

And, after 7 years working for Allianz, I’ve just realised what’s special about the Allianz font. They were very picky about using the special font on all official external communication, but not everyone had it on their PCs, you had to send it to the marketing bods for them to format.

It’s the beaks. Beaks everywhere. An entirely new font so they could make their eagle less obviously an eagle.

Subconscious in what sense? Its a pretty meaningless term. I am perfectly in control of my purchasing decisions.

TandemJeremy – Member
i don’t own branded goods. i don’t buy new consuer duarables or proiducts. all my bike bits come secondhand when possible.

Ahem…

yer a bugger druidh. I had forgotton that jacket. One of the very few branded expensive new things I own. Pressie from t’missus

still bought for what it is not what it is branded as

And don’t forget the “Crane” branded stuff from Aldi 😉

My understanding of the VHS vs Betamax scenario is that it was based on network effects & content, not particularly branding.

Anyhow, there was a bloke on TV the other week. Professional Northerner starting off with a very TJ esque position.

He took two tins of Heinz Beans, warmed them up and did some taste tests with the public. One tin was stickered up as Tesco’s Own Label, whilst the other was honestly labelled as Heinz. The majority of people believed they could taste a difference between the two.

The bloke had done a fair old U-turn by the end of the programme.

Found the iplayer link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011fjbp

yer a bugger druidh. I had forgotton that jacket. One of the very few branded expensive new things I own. Pressie from t’missus

still bought for what it is not what it is branded as

Teej, you would argue black is white, I do not believe your protestations that you are unaffected by marketing, this is just attention seeking bullsheeeete. Keep it up, I’m stuck in the office finishing off for tomorrow and it looks like I’ll be here for another two hours at least.

toys – I’m bored of it now.

it really is my position that I do my damnedest to avoid being influenced by marketing and that marketing is far less effective than marketeers would have you believe.

there is a clear difference between the object an the brand that the marketeers fail to understand that many of us can see, indeed often they often completely fail to understand this themselves. the referent is not the object. You can call a cat a dog but it will never bark.

There is a whole section of society that thinks as I do but its outside the experience of the marketeers so they deny it exists. there is a huge amount of “emperors new clothes” going on that they just cannot admit to but many of us know the emperor is naked.

TJ – the brand is not the logo. The brand is everything the consumer associates with the business or product.

You might see “Coca Cola” and think firstly of “evil capitalist pig-dogs”, but a much greater percentage of people think “tasty pop”.

TBH I have resisted because I personally try to resist marketing, but I knwo i fall for it all the time. I don’t see it as a bad thing, I’m glad I’ve fallen for the spin around cargo bikes, I love my cargo bike. I’m glad I bought a 5k dh bike, love that too, never stop having fun on it. Sometimes marketing can be OK. I was happy to spend 5k on a brand, logo and livery for the company website/brochures etc, that has totally paid for itself – people always say oohh nice brochure, or I went to your website and your people really know what they are doing. KERching sale. Happy days.

I’ll never forget when buying a motorbike from the dealer when I was 20, I was going to buy the cheaper two stroke 250 and he wanted to push me towards the 4 stroke 400. His words “Well when you are late for that flight and you really need to cruise at high speed the 400 will sit at 110mph all day..” I was savvy enoughh then to know exactly what he was doing, bought the 400 though anyway.

tron- I understand that – however the brand is not the object. Thats the bit the marketeers don’t understand. the object has an existence and value that is separate to any branding.

toys – I have hardly ever bought a new consumer item like that. All my bikes motor and pedal bar the insurance replacement were bought secondhand. I have never bought a new piece of furniture. Apart form the few bits of cycling clothing druidh kindly pointed out I don’t own branded clothing hardly at all. My main suit was secondhand 30 years ago. I own one pair of dress shoes. I have hardly ever bough new consumer durables. I don’t own a mobile phone, a dvd player, a satellite dish, a games console. My stereo consists of mainly second-hand components. I recently bought my first computer for 12 years.

I’m just not paying the consumerist game. I buy stuff for what it is not for what it is branded or marketed as.

I am just not interested in al the branding and marketing boolx. I don’t recognise bikes – people say to me “you know so and so – he has the such and such bike” – well I don’t because I don’t recognise the bike.

it really is my position that I do my damnedest to avoid being influenced by marketing

Don’t you see the irony in that? In avoiding thing because they are marketed, you are letting marketing have a far greater influence on what you buy than the rest of us do. If you go to such and effort to avoid coca-cola or Gore-tex, specifically because it is a marketed product then you are not buying freely. You have a ‘must not buy’ list.
Especially if you are trying your damndest. Me? I just buy stuff cos i like it. yes, maybe the advert on the telly made want to buy it maybe it looked cool on the next guy, but would have looked freaky 5 years ago and will again in another 5. you seem to have let marketers dictate what you do and don’t buy.

Tandem J, comic genius.

Tj – I admire the fact that you will argue your point til someone put a gun to your head, but you too are being very closed minded – you are unable to accept that you can possibly be affected or influenced to pick something over another.

As you correctly said, you choose something for what it is, not what someone tells you – what youre talking about is marketing, that isn’t branding. A brand is an ethos, a reason for being – that brand is then marketed to people who are the targeted Market.

If you’re life and decision making is so black and White I feel sorry for you, you can’t be a very emotive person,