Charging for public toilets...

Fairly common thing in many areas charging people to spend a penny.

…is the sign of a failed system

Public toilets should be a right

Has always been my feeling too.

Ladies and gentlemen.... the McWee....

Count your blessings you can actually find a public toilet in the first place - very few left for use, charged for or otherwise.

Public toilets should be a right, not locked behind a council lock because some little Hitler decided that only the affluent can leave effluent

I agree, and I suspect most local authorities would also agree with you. However, their budgets have been absolutely shafted and costs increased massively, so something has to give. Nearly every local authority has to stop doing stuff to try and deliver a balanced budget, for a lot of them toilets are on that list.

Bristol Harbour side last week with the grandkids no public toilets anywhere never mind pay ones . M Shed and other tourist attractions closed as it was a Monday even though it was school holidays 🙄

Ladies and gentlemen…. the McWee….

AKA the "McShite with lies"

DrP

Vaulting the barrier at the bogs at Hawkshead is a required skill for any Lake District visitor.

I wonder if after paying for install and collection what the payback period is.

To be fair pretty common in Germany IME (mainly limited to Hanover over a few years period).

Requiring 20p in shrapnel to take a piss is, well, taking the piss.

You should be able to do it contactless, with a handy email address if there are any problems.

Ladies and gentlemen…. the McWee….

"I'll buy something when I come out."

The McShit with lies.

“McShite with lies”

its only with lies if you tell them you're going to get a burger when you're done (then don't)

I might be wrong but I think some places get reduced rates if they offer their loos to the public.

As with everything else, government funding is eroding some pretty basic "rights"

Yes it's an absolute necessity and yet even in busy places its hard to find a loo.

In Grasmere last year I went into a paying loo. It's a barrier system, but a stupid woman was trying to get out of the barrier as it was releasing for me to get in. This then caused me to miss the opening, I was a bit rude and pushed her out of the way, explaining that for her to come out it was just a push and she should have waited. Stupid, stupid system.
Oh and don't get me started on the design and layout out of any ladies public cubicle.

Vaulting the barrier at the bogs at Hawkshead is a required skill for any Lake District visitor.

After you've paid your £8 parking of course.

Our local council closed all public toilets last year, a thing of the past sadly.

I think it's a combination of councils being skint, there being no statutory requirement to provide public toilets and decisions being made by people who don't care or understand the impact it has on folk who for various reasons (young, old, medical conditions etc) can't really go out without there being reasonable provision.

I thought charging for "spending a penny" was mostly to keep vagrants & drug users out. But yes councils have been shafted & being a gentleman of a certain age I do find it tricky at times, but I also carry cash most of the time too 🤔

their budgets have been absolutely shafted and costs increased massively, so something has to give.

Yup, 41% real terms cut since 2010, the services they are compelled to provide by law now make up the vast majority of their budgets and what's left over for discretionary facilities (i.e. the stuff most people actually want in a local area, including public toilets) has been squeezed harder and harder.

The conversation probably went along the lines of 'do we start charging or close them?'

The logic being that if they start charging for them they can always reverse the decision down the line when/if pressures ease, if they close them and sell the space off then that's that.

Achieved a new high in toilet infiltration on the Champs Elysee last week.

Scoped the situation whilst browsing perfumes, straight face, past the customers only sign, down the stairs, zut alors! coded door! Hear a flush so lurk, make out stabbing at code pad, exiting punter holds door open, in!

Marble, hand towels, cologne, the lot.

Pubs, cafes, McDonalds.
Just stick your head in and say "excuse me, would you mind if I just use the gents?". Never had anyone turn a request down.

Mrs SSS and I were in Waverley Market - Edinburgh - at the weekend (at Costa). On the ground floor they have a food court with various eateries on the circumference (the places with the tabe area in the centre).
The toilets for the food court are in the corner of the building, and its pay to use!! Like WTF??!! Captive audience or what. |
I was dismayed at the blatant profiteering.

Count your blessings you can actually find a public toilet in the first place – very few left for use, charged for or otherwise.

Thinking back to the news story of someone getting a bottle of piss in their supermarket food delivery and the 'conditions' generally for delivery drivers in the UK - employers can (or might not) schedule breaks, manage work hours and so on but DPD and Amazon aren't in charge of providing sanitation. The town I've just moved to has 3 lots of public loos all within a short walk of each other, so you're never far from one - two charge (contactless or coins) one is free.

The neighbouring authority I just moved from - lists two public toilets across the whole authority. That impacts on the poor soul who delivers my parcel, but also on anyone who has cause to leave the house for more than an hour or so. It's life limiting for young children, the parents of young children, pregnant women (especially now bobbies don't wear helmets any more) the elderly, the disabled, the drunk even. We all generally get to be at least one of those people in our lifetime. Its in everyones interest to have a life outside their front door that accommodates them.

This is something where we really should be comparing our governance to our neighbours. It's starting to become apparent that we're falling behind our neighbours in income - especially people who consider themselves better off. Cheap credit and worsening poverty have tricked the comfortable into thinking they themselves are doing ok but slowly their quality of life has been eroded over the past decade or so - but just go outside. We're falling behind our neighbours in terms of the fabric of everything around us. Its become clear recently that you're in a certain job at a certain level - your equivalent  in similar countries is getting paid a bit more, living in a better house, driving a better car. Lucky them. But that better house is in a better town with better things in it, that better car is driving on better roads with better infrastructure around it and theres better options for not using that car.

And this is all obviously happening because of the woke-erati and lefty lawyers because lefties don't have any genitals and never need to piss.

discretionary facilities (i.e. the stuff most people actually want in a local area, including public toilets) has been squeezed harder and harder.

Don't squeeze, that just makes it worse

I know the ones you mean OP and they are pretty grim. The last time I was there the door entry mechanism was "broken" so there was no charge but for 20p I would have expected, at the very least, clean facilities.

Limited choice in Leyburn but I'd be inclined to find a pub (after buying something, of course 🤣).

Here I sit, all broken hearted; spent 20p and only farted...

People seem to think there was a heyday for great public toilets!

I remember as a kid in the 70s trying my very best to hold a wee in as I didn't want to go to the filthy underground public toilets in Derby. Disgusting places.

There are many more options for relieving yourself now than 40 years ago.

Did a 40km loop from Leuchars last week, but the spicey chicken wrap I'd eaten at lunchtime was giving me grief. Found some pay toilets at Tayport which were 30p or contactless, which was fair enough but I wasn't carrying my card, just two £5 notes.

Cue mad 20 minute time trial clenching all the way to the next toilets at the Tentsmuir car park.

Turned out I got 9th on a Strava segment called 'Turtles Head Toilet Dash' on Strava, so at least 8 other people must have found themselves in a similar predicament! 😂

Limited choice in Leyburn but I’d be inclined to find a pub (after buying something, of course 🤣).

It’s pathetic but it actually irritated me enough to avoid spending any money in Leyburn and I stopped at a Costa Coffee on the way home.

Fortunately it doesn’t present a huge problem for me but having family members who suffer from Coeliac Disease means that I have a bit of empathy with people who are restricted to staying close to home thanks to decisions like this.

the Nelson in Southwold do a fantastic trade as free public lavatory. Never seen them decline anyone even if you don't buy a drink.

As others have said, council's will soon only provide statutory services as they can't afford to run 'nice to have' services.

Other than a chortle @13thfloormonk I have to agree at the ridiculous charge attached to some loos and that's if you can even find a public loo! And loving your rose tinted glasses @lunge that all establishments are as generous. I once made a mad dash in Keswick after advice from a random person about where to find some loos and the first place I made it to was cafe hope and stuck my head in, doors were open and staff were sat on the chairs chatting, and asked if I could please use the toilet, 'we're closed'. I dont feel I should have to divulge my condition to random people considering I felt my request was reasonable, however I poiltely went for 'but I have a disability and I actually really need the toilet now'. They insisted they were closed and I had to make it to the toilets at the other end of the carpark in the lakeside parking, now that's not very far away but trust me when I say when you have bowel disease and you're in a flare another metre is too far. It's attitudes like this that force people like myself to become almost house bound when they're even remotely not well, I shouldn't have to carry a card with me to hold up begging for common decency but alas that is the seemingly majority of the population now!

You should be able to do it contactless

I can, but I find that using a hand for guidance improves aim and reduces splashback

It’s pathetic but it actually irritated me enough to avoid spending any money in Leyburn and I stopped at a Costa Coffee on the way home.

Fortunately it doesn’t present a huge problem for me but having family members who suffer from Coeliac Disease means that I have a bit of empathy with people who are restricted to staying close to home thanks to decisions like this.

I can empathise - I also think these essential services should be free.

That's an area I often visit on my motorbike and it's the same story in Hawes.

You get to know where the free loos are 🤣 Bainbridge, Horton, for example, are free.

Fairly common overseas - in fact everywhere we've travelled in recent years in Europe has charged a either 50 cents or a Euro for use of public toilets.

It generally doesn't bother me as long as they are clean/pleasant - and not a total hell hole.

We had a week in Rome just before Christmas and soon wised up to the fact you can buy a bottle of water in McDonalds for a Euro which gives you a code printed on your receipt which lasts all day to get into the toilets - this can be used multiple times.

One in Sheffield charges £10 (for cocktails)

https://www.publicpublic.co.uk/

Back to the main point though, cost increases and budget cuts for local authorities are the main cause. One of my contracts for managing bus stations has just gone up £300k and we just have to absorb those rises. We did make toilets free during Covid but had to start charging again in 2021.

I shouldn’t have to carry a card with me to hold up begging for common decency but alas that is the seemingly majority of the population now!

Total sympathy for your situation, but I'm not sure this is a recent thing - as mentioned previously. I've had plenty of experiences throughout my life with being with people who've needed amenities and there being no chance of finidng anywhere. I'd say that commercial understanding of people's needs is far better now (disabled toilet radar keys, etc) but public attitudes are still just as ignorant. The biggest difference appears to be a refusal for people to see their hard earned money being spent on public services that they might not use themselves, until they need them in later life or after an operation, for example. But that's a pattern in every area of society at present, and I'm sure we know why. I guess toilets are the same as libraries or adult learning centres to a lot of people out there; why should they pay for them.

I don't think it's so much budget cuts (this would result in the total closure of the facilities, although of course this has happened extensively!) but it's to put people off from vandalism/drug taking - i.e. a. minority of arseholes spoiling it for everybody else. Of course, it's a pain, as who has a 20p piece on them these days?

Some councils have been charging for public loos for, literally, decades.

It's nothing new and not related to any particular government.

Back to the main point though, cost increases and budget cuts for local authorities are the main cause. One of my contracts for managing bus stations has just gone up £300k and we just have to absorb those rises. We did make toilets free during Covid but had to start charging again in 2021.

Surely charging for toilets isn't even going to pay for itself?

Some councils have been charging for public loos for, literally, decades.

Conversely, there are still free public loos around so it *can* be done (Saltburn has great facilities, even outdoor taps and cold showers for surfers).

No, you're right that charging won't cover costs. It's often a basic attempt at deterring anti-social behaviour.
In reality, opening and closing toilets at set times (usually office hours) is more successful, but limits evening usage.

Surely charging for toilets isn’t even going to pay for itself?

Years ago we were stood outside the loos at Waterloo station (as you do) and tried estimating how much money they'd be taking during the course of the day - that bog was very definitely going to pay for itself, several times over!

I firmly believe that in the future we'll be able to trace the decline of modern civilsation directly to the decline in public bogs - they're a canary in the cage for public spending and social provision.

Conversely, there are still free public loos around

Loads locally, mainly along the seafront, as it's not [I]too[/I] scummy around here (yet)

Of course, it’s a pain, as who has a 20p piece on them these days?

Exactly, I dont object to a 20p charge. But no chance will I have a coin on me in an emergency. Only if I know in advance that it requires it, which implies its somewhere I've been before... and how would I have found that out unless I was in dire need accidentally?

Of course, if I do bring a 20p, one day it will go up to 30p or I'll miss the opening like bunnyhop almost did; then I really will be in trouble.

Surely charging for toilets isn’t even going to pay for itself?

Nope, nowhere near covering the costs. But it generates much needed income. There’s a number of contracts which generate much needed money (advertising on bus shelters for example) that without we’d have to cut other services even further.

that bog was very definitely going to pay for itself, several times over

Or it was used to subsidize other public amenities elsewhere, which didn't have that footfall. But with higher footfall comes increased costs, like water & sewerage, cleaning, consumables, heating & electric, janitors/security, insurance, repairs, refurbishment, graffiti removal...

I vaulted the barrier into the loos in Boscastle car park and set off an alarm.

My kids were disgusted and impressed in equal measure.

The joy and surprise of teh public loo, can be anywhere between Trainspotting and Liverpools Philharmonic.....

My favourite public toilets are Swiss.... most I frequent throughout the year are spotlessly clean, spacious to the point you can take your bike inside and as a bonus are deliciously warm. All year bike friendly.

Some councils have been charging for public loos for, literally, decades.

Where do we suppose the phrase "spending a penny" comes from? I have a vague memory of the local loos in my home town having coin slots on the cubicle doors back in the 1970s. A penny made the door handles work, a bit like gumball machines.

I can understand it to a point, it doesn't seem wildly unreasonable to expect the users to contribute to cleaning and maintenance, be that buying a drink or adding a few pence onto council tax or whatever. And of course, some areas will have issues with ne'er-do-wells. But when you've got to go you've got to go, doubly so if you've got additional medical reasons, and attitudes like "we're closed" is just monumentally petty. I'm going to piss in the next 30 seconds whether I like it or not, I can either do it in your toilets or on your customer area floor, your call.

And if you're going to require coins, having a bloody change machine nearby isn't exactly a great leap now is it.