Catholic school but we are devout atheist

would caveat that there aren’t powerful voices arguing that the teaching of C20th history is prejudicial to Nazi’s..

The British Empire: spreading knowledge and science to pig ignorant heathens or genocide and slavery?

WW2: a war to save the Jews or the last gasp of imperial Europe?

The Troubles: a conflict between religious extremists or the UK’s last colonial retreat?

There are still plenty of historical conflicts, and the contestedness of history is built into the subject (at higher levels). You could quite easily do the same with RE.

So they wont need to bow their head to pray then?

Probably not. I didn’t.

Yes they put it first because its not the most important thing. Its a faith school because its not the most important thing. Really you want to argue that ?

Nonsense. I’ll go back to my point that the school that you linked to, scores way above average both at a local and national average.

If the most important thing was religion then it would have to detract from the educational standards.

At the faith schools I attended the teachers didn’t care if you attended Mass on a Sunday or ate meat on a Holy Day, went to Confession, severed as an Altar boy. It was of absolutely no interest to them, if you were the most devout or didn’t partake in any Religious activity outside of school. Some of them weren’t even Catholic.

OK faith schools are not about faith- they make it sop clear on the ethos statement and by what they teach 🙄
The church has no interest in making anyone be a part of their flock nor converting folk and its just about education- Whilst this point is arguable, what is not on STW, its blatantly false and I have better things to do.

Repeating your non sequitur- its clearly possible to put faith first and still get good results- wont make it a convincing point.I suspect , though I disagree, they argue its beneficial. Either way its just not true.
Adding a new one wont help either

If the most important thing was religion then it would have to detract from the educational standards.

Just not true as the results show.

OK faith schools are not about faith- they make it sop clear on the ethos statement and by what they teach

Not what I said.

I did not say they were not about faith. The point I was making is that faith is not the most important thing on a day to day basis.

The church has no interest in making anyone be a part of their flock nor converting folk and its just about education- Whilst this point is arguable, what is not on STW, its blatantly false and I have better things to do.

They don’t a very good job at it do they? Didn’t work with me and certainly didn’t work with an uber atheist like you.

Do you think that schools admit children from other faiths and backgrounds to convert them?

While a “Church” has a vested interest in keeping up it’s numbers, evangelical conversions don’t really happen in the modern day UK.

“An education which starts from a basis of accepting flawed and sexist principles promulgated by a fundementally corrupt and morally bankrupt leadership, is not what I’d want for them. “

And all the other posts like that.
Oh how amusing. The suggestion is that the posters believe in tolerance etc. yet is significantly intolerant.

Things like sexism I think it’s actually laudable to be intolerant of. I’m surprised you don’t agree.

That statement does not prioritise spiritual development over any other trait.

Not sure as I’d want to go to a school where education falls under “but also.” Assuming for the sake of argument that you’re correct, it is at best a bloody poorly worded and misleading mission statement.

If that’s the case why do faith schools routinely out perform others?

Could be any number of things. Maybe they simply are better schools? I’d hazard that they’re almost certainly better funded, which won’t hurt. Or perhaps choosing a Catholic school isn’t high on the list of priorities for parents who are more interested in where their next fix is coming from. We’re into correlation vs causation again here, who knows.

Which would be somewhat ironic, because assuming the aims of the theists are to improve mental wellbeing then those kids are probably the ones who would most benefit from a spot of spiritual guidance.

Who knows, perhaps some of their wider teaching helps? From the catechisms and the fourth commandment:

2199 The fourth commandment is addressed expressly to children in their relationship to their father and mother, because this relationship is the most universal. It likewise concerns the ties of kinship between members of the extended family. It requires honor, affection, and gratitude toward elders and ancestors. Finally, it extends to the duties of pupils to teachers, employees to employers, subordinates to leaders, citizens to their country, and to those who administer or govern it.

Well behaved children with respect for teachers might create an environment conducive for learning, you never know, it might catch on?

2199 The fourth commandment is addressed expressly to children in their relationship to their father and mother, because this relationship is the most universal.

Sure it is. “Hi, these are my parents, Dave and Brian.”

Well behaved children with respect for teachers might create an environment conducive for learning, you never know, it might catch on?

Almost certainly. Must be lovely for the school, getting all those well-behaved respectful kids in. All the little shits can get allocated to the heathen school up the road.

Actually, we might be onto something here.

How does the selection process work? Is it primarily geography, or does the student’s existing scholastic record get taken into account?

Almost certainly. Must be lovely for the school, getting all those well-behaved respectful kids in. All the little shits can get allocated to the heathen school up the road.

Many a true word spoken in jest?

So.. the school says he has to sign the code. If he doesn’t, presumably they won’t accept his kid. So if they don’t accept his kid, the council has to find him another school, no?

Which is what he wants.

So.. the school says he has to sign the code. If he doesn’t, presumably they won’t accept his kid. So if they don’t accept his kid, the council has to find him another school, no?

Which is what he wants.

It’s on the other side of quite a big town.

Just looking at the map of the town in question, there are an awful lot of RC primary schools, which doesn’t offer many options for parents trying to avoid them.

And it is the RC component that makes the difference – they actually take this stuff seriously, as opposed to CofE schools, which don’t tend to give a monkeys as long as you turn up.

For clarity the RC school is the lowest performing of the 3 nearest schools both in terms of results and ofsted reports

It’s not bad but hovers around the national average of 80%, my preference is around 95%

The ofsted report critiques the teaching. Particularly maths, teacher feedback, spelling.

I’m on my phone at the moment but will post the results when I’m at a PC

So – what happens if you refuse to sign?

So – what happens if you refuse to sign?

If we are not willing to sign the up to the code of the school and its traditions then we will be allocated another school

The other school is likely to be over the other side of town as the other local schools have a historically low (non in the past 2 years) drop out rate as would be expected as the are all well regurded schools in our area.

@womp, so you have a choice. I appreciate its a choice between a school with in your view relgious shortcomings and one with academic shortcomings. Based on what yiu’ve posted I am not surprised the school you wanted as first choice is everyone else’s first choice

Based on what yiu’ve posted I am not surprised the school you wanted as first choice is everyone else’s first choice

if I’ve read this right the bestest school is none denominational and everyone can apply for/attend, the 3rd best is an RC that only signed up (literally) catholics can go to.

And people wonder why atheists have issues with faith schools

(2nd is CoE dunno about their contract policy)

So – what happens if you refuse to sign?

so you have a choice.

YOu do with a street mugging

you can hand over your possessions or you can get stabbed

Unfortunately you dont have the choice, that you wish to make, available to you.

Unfortunately you dont have the choice, that you wish to make, available to you.

Yes I would agree with this. The point I was trying to make is as a parent you have to try and see the bigger picture. If a non-religious school really is such a priority then you take the one with lower academic standards which is further away. Children and schooling is always a sensitive subject for parents, there is however a widespread misconception amongst parents that they can freely pick the school they want. The choices work two ways.

jambas, does it feel odd to have a shadow even when the sun isn’t shining? 😉

Quite amusing but some way form your best passive aggressive digs.
Thanks for letting me know you are still reading 8)

Some of us just cannot help but do the personal stuff eh – not Jamby I have never seen him stoop to such things.

It’s worth remembering that school performance ratings and results bear little examination in the real world, with real children- as they are neither control tested nor free from ‘massaging’.
Every school must work with the material that it gets given; some control this more than others.
Just because a particular school gets below average results, doesn’t mean that they are unable to help take an intelligent, well adjusted child and turn it into a smart, happy adult.
It is perfectly within the bounds of reason to have a poor-scoring school that is actually very good at bringing out the best in switched on kids.
As for religion in schools..? I hate the idea, with a vehemence that only a few could understand.

As for religion in schools…?

Imagine studying any of this lot….

http://www.ocr.org.uk/Images/242912-specification-draft-as-level-gce-religious-studies-h173.pdf

As for religion in schools..? I hate the idea, with a vehemence that only a few could understand.

I think we can understand in general (not specify to you), its obvious from the threads on STW the “anti” religion brigade are very vociforous and aggressively so

Guardian reports 1 in 7 don’t get first choice school (1 in 6 in London)

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/apr/18/thousands-miss-out-first-choice-primary-school

the “anti” religion brigade are very vociforous and aggressively so

True but our offspring are forced to engage in the fairy tales of others so its really not surprising

Imagine if we stopped the faithful going to faith schools – probably annoy them to

Separation is the only answer rather than two tier system that favours and actively discriminates on behalf of the religious to the detriment of the “anti” lot

Imagine studying any of this lot.

Imagine being forced to against your will.

JY why not get the kids to focus on the social aspects (e.g. 10 commandments) as well as pointing out the other options in terms of religions (so they can’t all be right?) and atheist options. You are free to campaign for secular schools of course.

Catholic schools tend to be up there with the best results.

If you want an exam machine then yes that would be true. If you want a rounded human being then maybe not.

If you have a child with problems they are the **** worst. I wouldn’t pee on any of the secondary Catholic School teachers near us if they were on fire. The sanctimonious un-christian bunch of bastards.

JY why not get the kids to focus on the social aspects

I dont know why not make Jews be atheists at school…really you need to ask? Perhaps we can make them recant the way we have to pray ?
Its a moral/social code I disagree with. I want my kids to use contraception, respect gay people, treat women equally, not seek the advice of an infallible virginal unmarried man for matrimonial advice etc. Might as well ask why meat eaters done want to be forced to study my vegan beliefs and eat one vegan meal a day at compulsory vegan school.

Its interesting how many exceptions from the law this moral code needs else it would be in breach of anti discrimination law. Not a set of ethics I like for my kids but YMMV. I bet the christians would be unhappy to be banned from schools by faith and jobs but hey to say this is like intolerant 🙄

You are free to campaign for secular schools of course.

God bless you 😉

Sandwich, you seem to dislike Catholics. You give the reason that they are un-Christian. Are they some niche faction? Would you be happy if they were Christian instead?

I was educated by plenty of Catholics I’d quite happily describe as very “un-Christian” in their behaviour.

Thing is, I knew what Sandwich meant. I’m surprised anyone is taking him literally…unless it allows them to be a smarmy little smartarse.

Evening DD,

So you don’t like un-Christians, or to be precise 😉 their behaviour, either. That makes two of you it seems.

I get the OPs concern.. I think most modern, progressive parents would prefer their kids to attend a modern, progressive school that doesn’t complicate it’s gift of education with backwards ideas..

BUT, I’m very sceptical of fanatical anti-theists like some of the people posting here.. I know that it’s a very on trend position to take and it’s easy to see why..
If you’re at that tender stage of personal development where you still believe that holding strong views on contentious issues gives you more credibility, the anti-theist stance is a pretty safe, some might say iron clad ‘value’ to assign to yourself to serve that purpose..
It’s the current animal rights, CND, vegetarianism, pseudo hipster fad..

At this stage in the game though, we almost all went to primary schools that had some kind of religious affiliation, and I don’t imagine it’s done any of us any harm (bar a very few isolated cases)..

If you really want to take a stance against indoctrination be anti-television, or anti-media, anti-5 day week, anti-capitalist, anti-facist…

Having a go at a school for singing a few hymns and teaching a couple of parables is just pure laziness.. I’m pretty sure that if you’re a concerned parent it would take minimal effort to rationalise, balance out and fine tune any stuff your kids learn at school that doesn’t gel with your own personal ideologies

It’s the current animal rights, CND, vegetarianism, pseudo hipster fad..

I have waited thirty years to not look like a dirty hippy let me have my moment in the sun will you .

Amusing but play the argument not the person. I am a “militant atheist” – WTF does it even mean? just as much as i am a militant Scientist or a militant anti homeopathy. When someone believes in hocus pocus and tries to force me and my kids to join in I think i have every right to be “militant”.

If you really want to take a stance against indoctrination be anti-television, or anti-media, anti-5 day week, anti-capitalist, anti-facist…

Very good point

When someone believes in hocus pocus and tries to force me and my kids to join in I think i have every right to be “militant”.

This again!

When do you ever get people trying to force you to take part in organised religion?

On average I probably get a Jehovah Witness knocking on my door about once a year and I politely say “no thank you” and close the door. Even then they are not really “forcing” me to join in, just asking me to read something about their beliefs.

Does this really make you react in a “militant” manner?

Or do those big posters outside churches and chapels send you into a rage?

Are you so weak minded that you think that they may be able to convert you?

It all seems very strange behaviour.

fanatical anti-theists like some of the people posting here

I don’t think I’ve seen any evidence that the anti-theists do anything about it but make the occasional sarcastic comment on Internet threads. If they’re fanatics, they’re not very good at being fanatical

I was going to say i was building a bomb as I type but that sort of joke can get you into trouble so I wont risk it.

You have a long way to go before you catch up with your more explodey fanatic competitors

I know ..no good comes out of a lack of faith and a loose moral system.

Forgive us

You are the Abu Hamza of the anti-theist movement and I claim my five quid 🙂

(could I just take a moment to clarify that I’m a big fat athiest, I just don’t have a problem with educating my children in the fairy tales of a variety of cultures)

I know regular church goers who are very un-Christian in their behaviour and Catholic’s have been responsible for some horrific behaviour be that treatment of single mothers, stealing of babies or child abuse. However, none of that makes a Catholic school “fundamentally” bad