Car derived van

What’s the largest car derived van on the market atm?

Ta

You could buy an eight/nine seater Transit/Trafic/Vivaro, remove the seats and panel the rear windows.

Are you talking about large cars with extra seats, or the DVLA-defined ‘car derived van’? If the latter you have the various T5 (Caravelle), Vito etc. sized options..

Also Interested in this as about to replace van. If a vehicle is a Dvla-defined “car derived van” does that mean it isn’t restricted to 50mph on A-roads?

Correct. It applies to smaller vans but there’s also the exception I refer to above.

Car derived vans are the same speed limits as cars.

Are LR Disco vans still available, they are a decent size in the back as no rear seats.

A car derived van is just that. A car thats been made into a van. So the T5, vito etc does not fall into this category. They can be classed as Dual Purpose Vehicles though, with an additonal row of seats and side windows.

Government guidelines on this.

Yes I’m thinking about the biggest vehicle with 2 seats and panelled back windows that can legally drive at car speeds.
Not a van van…..

So what’s out there please?

Milkie – Member

Car derived vans are the same speed limits as cars.

Not always. The GVW of the Caddy for example pushes it over the limit and into the big van speed limits.

JohnClimber – Member

Yes I’m thinking about the biggest vehicle with 2 seats and panelled back windows that can legally drive at car speeds.
Not a van van…..

So what’s out there please?

From memory, it’s Berlingo/Kangoos and the like as the max weight stays low enough

Galaxy/Alhambra and blacked out windows? Pimp daddy. 8)

With the seats down ours is waaaay longer than needed to sleep in.

Edit: having seen your clarification – most of this isn’t relevant..hopefully it’ll still be use to someone!

I’ve been looking at this recently, and there’s a lot of confusion. Here’s my take on it:

There are car derived vans, like an Astravan, which is a van built from what was originally a car.

There are car versions of vans (van-derived cars if you will, although nobody seems to use that term). A good example of this is a Nissan NV200 Combi. These are based on the van, but have factory installed windows in the rear and the back, plus seats in the back for passengers. They are originally constructed for carriage or passengers.

The really important bit is what it says on the V5c. Have a look at this link.

If it’s listed as M1 then it’s a car. Car speed limits apply, and it’s taxed on CO2 emmissions and insured as a car. In theory it would pay non-commercial (car) rates for toll roads/bridges, although you might need to persuade the attendants. Examples of this include NV200 combi, Berlingo multispace, Fiat Doblo.

If it’s listed as N then it’s a van. Van speed limits (weight based) apply. It’s insured and taxed like a van (flat rate). Examples of this are Nissan Nv200 (non combi), VW Transporters, Fiat Doblo Cargo, Berlingo Van.

This is based on the original construction, and I don’t think you can change the vehicle classification. AFAIK If you buy a panel van and put windows and seats in the back (convert to a crew van), it doesn’t suddenly become a car and have higher speed limits. Even though it might be almost identical.

Be careful with larger 8+ seat vehicles, such as M2 and M3, sometimes these need ‘commercial’ car insurance, which might be significantly more expensive.

You can buy a car and unbolt the seats, but your insurance company will probably object as they think you’ll be using it like a van. Presumably insurance companies are fine with seats which are simply unclipped and not unbolted, as it’s part of the design of the vehicle and only temporary.
I’ve also noticed that 7 seater cars are much more expensive for me to insure than 5 seaters, some companies decline it as I don’t have dependants under 16.

So if your original question was ‘what’s the biggest car, even if it looks like a van?’ Then it’s probably a N200 Combi. Other options are Berlingo multispace XTR (I think this has individually removable seats), I800 Doblo, or a transit shuttle/custom.

Personally, I want a car variant of a van for the following reasons:
significantly cheaper insurance
cheaper tax
cheaper tolls
I want to occasionally carry passengers and don’t want crap aftermarket non-folding seats.
increased visibility when driving

I’m looking out for a 5 seater NV200 combi for less than 6.5K. Cheaper to insure than a 7 seater. Insurance didn’t want me to remove 2 seats from a 7 seater (to make it identical to the 5 seater version) as they thought i’d be using it as a van!

Last thing: There are a few vehicles which are a bit confusing. Fiat Scudo panorama, and Peugeot partner tepees sometimes take me to compare the market’s van site, and sometimes to their car site (check the URL.) I haven’t figured out why yet.

If anyone can suggest any more large car versions of vans then please let me know!

/essay.

If your build (seats, windows etc) meets the DPV criteria then you should be able to get the V5 changed. Same as you can get the V5 changed if a conversion makes a panel van a motorhome. If you don’t provide enough evidence when applying then it might need a VOSA inspection. If you want a 100% answer on conversions, replating etc then talk to someone like http://www.svtech.co.uk/

To the OP – I think Berlingos and Kangoos were ok on GVW as car derived vans whilst Doblo, Caddy, Connect, Scudo etc were over the limit. As said – it really depends what is on the V5 so go visit a dealer and have a look.

I’ve got a Dispatch Combi and it comes as an M1 car as standard. The new model is about to come out (Citroen Spacetourer, Peugeot Traveller, Totota ProAce) and looks like the new MPV versions are being pushed as cars so almost certain to be M1 again.

Fell out with my previous insurer (they gave me £100 to go away and stop pestering)as they wouldn’t recognise the Dispatch Combi as a car even though it was car on the V5, car on homologation and they recognised the identical Peugeot Expert Teepee as a car!

only the lower weight spec 750kg payload berlingos and partners are …. the 900 payloads are over the GVW …..

What about 4×4 commercials? Or do you strictly want a car?

I’d go with Mattoutandabout! The Seat Alhambra’s are MEGA! We have one. 7 seater but take 3 seats we can get the bikes in upright without taking wheels off.

Crashtestmonkey has previously gone away with the lads and slept in the back with his bike next to him.

Car so normal speed limits.
Car so cheaper bridge fees if you go to Wales or abroad etc.

The question in – why van? You’re looking for something you can drive at car speeds – people are suggesting big cars and taking the seats out – thats not a van. Do you want ‘van’ rather than ‘car’ for the purpose of tax returns?

Anyway in car-derived van terms (rather than dual purpose vehicles) you’d be looking at the long wheel based versions of the newer models of CDVs (its only in the latest interations that theres a variety of wheelbases)uth long wheelbase version of the Kangoo is 4 Cubic meters – or as an alternative the short wheelbase but high roof version of the Doblo Cargo is also 4 cubic meters – so more height and less length – both are available in a 750kg payload option, which if it brings it in at a gross weight of under 2 tonnes makes them contenders

Theres also a long wheel base high roof doblo which is 5 cubic meters and would probably be the winner its but only available in a 1000kg payload so comes up to heavy.

But 2 tonnes GVW – thats your threshold of ‘van’ for the tax man and ’60mph on single carriageways’ for the police man. So you’d need to look through all the spec sheets for the various variants – as any given size of CDV can come in different payload weights and therefore different GVWs

My 1.3 SWB 2012 Doblo is N1 on the V5 so lower speed limits. Newer one may be different though

Land Rover Discovery Commercial.

Disco 4 Commercial

It really is a minefield. I dont want a car, with pointless car bits & unnecessary glass, I want a van. I also want to drive at car speed limits. The gvw has to be under 2000kg, so as mentioned vw caddys go above that.
I narrowed it down to a berlingo van, but want the 90 rather than the standard 75 bhp engine. But the 90’s mostly have a higher payload, pushing the gvw above 2000kg… It really is hard work.

I’ve just gone from a nice estate car (and having had cars for well over 30 yrs) to a new LWB transit van. The lower speed limit really doesn’t affect things IMHO. I’ve driven on fast A roads at 50-52 and as usual far faster stuff hs come past me…only for me to be 3 vehicles behind 25 miles further on. I wouldn’t get too hung up on the lower limit (or the toll issue unless you use a toll bridge daily/weekly. For me, the benefits far outweigh the downsides (Its a purely private purchase and will get no commercial use at all)

Car derived van = Fiesta,Corsa etc

Land Rover Discovery Commercial.

A tiny 2 cubic meter payload and a GVW over 3 tonnes so the lower speed limit applies

Car derived van = Fiesta,Corsa etc

theres a bit more to it than that

Are four-wheel drive Transits still considered not-vans? I have a vague memory of them falling into a loophole along the lines of “Multi-purpose vehicles”.

I’m now thinking this is more complicated than just looking on the V5 at the taxation class where my T5 Kombi 6 seater is listed as ‘Diesel Car’.
What is a standard panel van t5 on the V5 if anyone can check?
The tolls issue seems to be hit and miss depending on the attendant, certainly on m6 toll. If you get one that applies the rule about a van being a vehicle exceeding 30″ bodywork height above the front axle then they are stiffing you for van rate.

Does anyone know how is Mercedes Viano classified? Car or van?

OK – I’m going to dispel something right now – the Caddy DOES NOT “go above that”.
There’s a LWB Caddy Maxi Life sat outside on my drive right now that is 2365kg gross revenue weight, 1609kg mass in service, 1400kg braked towing weight and a 750kg unbraked towing weight.
It is M1 on the log book – tax is £175 per year.
It’s a CAR with all the speed limits, etc that entails.
However – the moment you look at ANY of the “Combi” styles version of any of the manufacturers you will get the commercial classification on them.
They’re designed to carry goods in the rear hence the panels instead of windows – the Taxman knows this.

The Vito is a van – unless it’s the really posh shuttles they do with all the spinning seats, etc AND full glass.
But it’s not called a Vito then either 😉

Look at the vin plate on the vehicle, some earlier t5 kombi are type approved M1 so diesel car tax and speed limits.

It should also be on the log book.

Hammy… Your caddy is a dual use vehicle thats why , hence the designation m1. -mafter all its essentially a van derived car.

A straight caddy van does not get the higher limit as it is too heavy

trail_rat – straight Caddy is LIGHTER than the Maxi Life with the same upper weight limit, gross train weight, towing weight, nose weight, etc.
Absolutely no difference between them other than the lack of rear windows – which is what the taxman bases their definition on.

I’m not really sure what the argument is here, yours is a car I assume with rear windows, so can do car speed limits, the caddy’s being discussed are vans and have a gvw of above 2000kg, so are limited to van speed limits.

As does the Maxi Life oldtalent – exactly the same gvw.
The point is it isn’t cut and dried as some have said – however if the OP wants car speed limits he is going to have to ensure he gets one with the right designation.
That designation actually doesn’t necessarily mean the gvw is different.
trail_rat’s comment about the “straight Caddy” being too heavy is completely wrong.

Have a READ

It doesn’t matter that the straight Caddy is lighter, it’s still not a car derived van, nor is it light enough to have the higher speed limits. It’s a van, not based on a car, and is heavy enough to have the lower speed limits applied to it. Which is daft when the car version doesn’t, but there we go.

If you read the link above the new legislation allows the Kombi to come under it now as long as it is “permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows – there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas” so the LWB might not.
Considering VW make the Kombi (Caddy and T5) with all glass BUT no 3rd row of seats they are presumably getting round the above legislation with it. “Dual Purpose Vehicle”

https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/range/caddy-c4/caddy-panel-van/specification

Explain how those figures come in under your own guidance for me to be completely wrong.

Same way they come under this one
https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/range/caddy-c4/caddy-maxi-life/specification

Both vehicles are identical other than the unladen weight. So when you said that the Panel van is heavier…

The only difference is that the Maxi Life is sold as a “Passenger Carrier”

The Maxi Kombi with the second row of seats comes under “Multi Purpose” so same speed limits as car – EXACTLY the same GVW/GTW, etc

The Caddy Maxi Panel van is the lightest ULW and as above the exact same other weights – the only difference is a heavier payload – 744kgs as opposed to 592 (Maxi Life) and 632 (Maxi Kombi)

As someone said – it makes no sense at all, however its the Construction and Use Regs that dictate it because of carriage of goods/equipment.
That then lumps them into the commercial tax and insurance bracket.

so just so we are clear – you agree that because the GVW of the panel van is more than 2 tonne it is subject to the lower speed – as i said (note i said its too heavy – not that “its heavier than your maxi life” as you seem to have interpreted.

the un laden weight is irrelevant so moot point

No – I’m saying the GVW of ALL of them is the same but its the layout internally that causes the lower speed under the C&S Regs.
It’s seen as a “single purpose vehicle” so taxed and restricted according to that – not because it is above 2t( that only applies to car derived vans).
BTW – its 2040kgs Unladen for Dual Purpose Vehicles – which is what the OP is basically going to have to buy to meets his demands. Here you go
“Motor Car” is another definition in there that might help the OP but whatever happens – every suggestion he’s been given to date is a Dual Purpose. None of the Car derived are going to give him the room he wants.
So he’s going to have to compromise as he’s already been told several times – lower speed limit if he wants no back windows or a DP and then film/vinyl the windows.
His call.

Yes I’m thinking about the biggest vehicle with 2 seats and panelled back windows that can legally drive at car speeds.

from the Original Posters requirements.

for non dual use its 2tonne GVW max.