Hi, was wondering if there were anyone on the forum knowledgeable in the area of road traffic laws/insurance.

Scenario

I was sitting in a que of traffic about 200 yards from an island (single carriage way both ways), there was a junction to the right up ahead, I checked my mirrors and started to indicate. When I got to the junction I started to into the junction on the right, then a car coming up the outside (effectively overtaking cars behind in the que) hit me, it appeared as though she was overtaking a que to shoot up on the wrong side of the road to turn into the same junction I was turning into.

I dont think she was making a legal move, I didn’t think you should over take on the approach to a junction or when sat in a very slow moving que? However I may be wrong and wanted other opinions so I know how best to handle the situation.

Many Thanks

Report to the police, detail it clearly to your insurance company and let them deal with it?

Tricky one. She shouldn’t really have been there but you still should have checked. Not illegal to pass a stationary queue of traffic on the wrong side of the road and is a pretty standard move for cyclists. I expect the insurance co will want to go knock for knock as that is less work for them. If you want a better outcome then it will be work for you.

If you take the queue away, you were turning right at a junction with another road. She was on the wrong side of the road overtaking past a right hand turn.
Her fault.

So you were in the right hand lane (ie, not in hatch markings or anything, but an indicated lane) and she drove into the back of you?

As above, report the accident to the police and your insurance – this is what you’re supposed to do following an accident.

From your description, it sounds like it was the other drivers fault. Your insurance will ask you to explain in detail what happened and draw a picture of the road, junction, cars etc. You might want to write it all down now while it’s fresh in your mind.

Should be open and shut, but, since it’s STW…

You should be checking before turning, you could have had a motorbike or pushbike or fire engine passing you. Her move sounds mad but that’s not the entire point.

You should have checked your mirror when preparing to make the turn, not when sat in a queue putting your indicator on.

She should have seen your indicator.

I guess it’ll go 50:50 and you should be glad it wasn’t a motorbike/cyclist filtering that you pulled out on.

Did you take pictures at the time (most of us have non-dumb phones now so I presume you have? It would be the first thing I would be doing in the event of a collision.

She hit you from behind – her fault.

dooosuk – Member

You should have checked your mirror when preparing to make the turn, not when sat in a queue putting your indicator on.

She should have seen your indicator.

I guess it’ll go 50:50 and you should be glad it wasn’t a motorbike/cyclist filtering that you pulled out on.

This was what I was going to say. So, easier to copy it….

If you haven’t already,go back and take some photos of the junction and road leading up to it.
Helps make sense out of the sketches.

If I understand the OP correctly, he shouldn’t need to check(or be expected to check) for cars coming up and trying to overtake him when he is manoeuvring to turn right.

“Rule 167 of the Highway Code: ‘Do not overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example, approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road’”

**** take her for all shes got for being a moron. See this all the time up here where folk think they are too important to wait…. ive nearly been headon’d in the car by pricks doing exactly this. (long after ive stopped the car noting their presence)

The Highway Code explicitly forbids overtaking in junctions IIRC….

I got pulled up on this on my advanced motorbike course by the Police rider assessor.

he shouldn’t need to check(or be expected to check) for cars coming up and trying to overtake him when he is manoeuvring to turn right.

quite. Unless there happens to be a car/ambulance/cyclist there, in which case he’ll hit them. Always check before manoeuvring.

my experiance of these overtaking at junctions kind of people is that they are moving at speeds far inexcess of appropriate for the manuver as they know they are pushing their luck……and believe they are invincible in their little bubble of tin – meaning you can check and then they will be into your side before you have completed your manuver.

its specifically stated for cyclists and motorbikes not to overtake cars at junctions and ambulances on the wrong side of the road should have a few clues as to its coming – as well as doing so in a safe and controlled manner – not at balls to the wall.

M-S-M….

(single carriage way both ways)

Given that there’s no such thing as a single carriageway one way (other than a one-way street), I presume you mean a single lane both ways.

In which case, how was she overtaking on the right if it was a single lane?

Her fault. You don’t overtake near junctions, that was (almost) a golden rule on my driving courses.

I thought the general quick ‘test’ was if that you hit someone from behind its your faul… ie hers in this case.

Unless there happens to be a car/ambulance/cyclist there, in which case he’ll hit them. Always check before manoeuvring.

Again, I might be misunderstanding, but if he is in the filter lane to turn right, anything overtaking him would be at fault, I certainly wasn’t taught to check for overtaking cars when turning right.

Although I do agree with M-S-M (very much drummed into me) but in no way would someone be expected to have a vehicle overtake there and if they did, they are at fault.

If it was an ambulance, the ambulance driver would still be at fault even if they had the sirens on. You simply don’t overtake at junctions.

Why report to police? Only need to involve them if someone was hurt or failed to stop. They won’t be interested otherwise. Just inform your insurance company who will likely try and split blame 50-50 so both insurance companies win. You then need to decide if it’s worth fighting or take it on the chin.

wanmankylung – Member
M-S-M….

Seems like that’s a selective thing on this thread.

Still should be her at fault though

how ever it sounds like he was hit in the side – which is where it gets messy.

how ever- when my mrs was driven into the side of by a car leaving a parking space – we were found to be in the wrong as our car was on the wrong side of the road (due to the multiple cars being parked on our side the road) go figure.

What do you mean by no such thing as a single carriageway?

Had similar with a motorcyclist overtaking me whilst turning right into my drive, police came down in my favour in their report, which influenced the outcome with the insurers (motorcyclist 100% at fault).

Her fault.

Did she cross any solid white lines? Did she enter a hatched area?

What do you mean by no such thing as a single carriageway?

Ist not a single carrige was both ways…. its either a single carriage way or a dual carriageway

can’t really see what all the fuss is about (if I understand the description correctly). Her fault. Unless you’re The Sunday Post, where it’s “both parties A & B are to blame” 🙂

I seem to recall my dad got taken out by a motorbike as he did something similar in town, turned right into a narrow street (I assume was indicating, though that seemed to have bene hotly debated), motorbike T-boned him trying a cheeky overtake in town centre.. I think I knew the motorcyclist which made it all bit awkward..

“Rule 167 of the Highway Code: ‘Do not overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example, approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road’”

Yes, but:

161: “All mirrors should be used effectively throughout your journey. You should use them in good time before you signal or change direction or speed.”
170: “Take extra care at junctions. You should look all around before emerging.”
179: “Well before you turn right you should use your mirrors to make sure you know the position and movement of traffic behind you.”

Although mostly this, which appears under the heading “Turning right”:

180: “Check your mirrors and blind spot again to make sure you are not being overtaken, then make the turn.”

From the description of events given, it seems that both drivers are clearly at fault here.

I dont think she was making a legal move

It’s legal unless it can be demonstrated to constitute careless or dangerous driving. (The same applies to turning without checking for overtaking vehicles.)

From the description of events given, it seems that both drivers are clearly at fault here.

It is very rare that there is anyone who has a part in a crash could have done nothing to lessen the impact.

It is very rare that there is anyone who has a part in a crash could have done nothing to lessen the impact.

Taking collisions as a whole, yes (for some definition of “very rare”). Though not for certain types of collision, eg cyclists struck from behind.

179: “Well before you turn right you should use your mirrors to make sure you know the position and movement of traffic behind you.”

But mostly:

180: “Check your mirrors and blind spot again to make sure you are not being overtaken, then make the turn.”
You’re working on the basis that she had come from a long way back and had overtaken multiple cars before hitting the OP. It’s far more likely that she was only one or two cars behind – there’s enough time between looking in your mirror and pulling out for a car to pull out and hit you.

More importantly the OP was indicating right and as such the other car should have seen this and stopped.

What do you mean by no such thing as a single carriageway?

That’s not quite what I said. I said there’s no such thing as a single carriageway in one direction (and by implication, a dual carriageway in the other) unless it’s a one-way street.

A popular misconception is that “dual carriageway” = two lanes. That’s not what it means; the presence of a central reservation between different directions of traffic flow is what defines a dual carriageway. You can have a two-lane single carriageway or a single-lane dual carriageway, but what you can’t have is a single carriageway in one direction and a dual carriageway in the other because Physics.

161: “All mirrors should be used effectively throughout your journey. You should use them in good time before you signal or change direction or speed.”

This is physically impossible, to use all your mirrors, throughout the whole duration of the journey.

That’s not what it says. Try again.

No such thing as an “accident” – something, somewhere wasn’t as it should have been.

IMO from your description, you were doing things as you should, she was being impatient and drove into you, instead of doing what you did, and waited in the queue till she got to the junction and then turned right.

I guess you have to leave it up to the insurance but it seems to me as a layman that she was totally in the wrong, overtaking at an inappropriate point (by a junction), without checking the road ahead was clear, and for inappropriate reasons (too impatient to wait).

I hope she gets prosecuted for careless driving, points + a re-education course…

Put ‘normal’ people into cars and they go crazy… we badly need some re-education/proper enforcement/better karma

You’re working on the basis that she had come from a long way back and had overtaken multiple cars before hitting the OP.

Well, yes, because the OP said she was “overtaking cars behind in the que (sic)”. Note that I included the phrase, “from the description of events given”.

More importantly the OP was indicating right and as such the other car should have seen this and stopped.

Mm. You did read the bit where I said “it seems that both drivers are clearly at fault”, yes? 🙂

Sounds like 50:50 to me.

She shouldn’t have been there, regardless of whether she should’ve been there you should still have looked properly. Could’ve been a motorcycle filtering or a child’s face or something.