Don’t worry OP, if you had been sitting in your living room and a car came through the wall the STW pedantics would still find a way to blame you.

I think the zig zags for the crossing may also have a part to play.
TBH going on the wrong side of the road passing stationary traffic to then turn right is not a manoeuvre I’d ever be comfortable making, even for a car length or so. All it takes is 1 person to come out of the side road and then where do you go?
It may not be illegal, but its bloody stupid.

Don’t worry OP, if you had been sitting in your living room and a car came through the wall the STW pedantics would still find a way to blame you.

Did your house have right of way?

I’ve never understood the ‘sitting in blind spots’ thing either, it’s something I’d actively try to avoid on a motorway. Ditto being directly alongside someone else; I like to have an escape route. But the number of people who will sit on your rear quarter for miles if you let them, it’s staggering. Either get past if you’re overtaking or drop in behind me if you aren’t, andwhyareyoueveninthatlane?! Argh.

yeah this. motorways, i try not to draw alongside vehicles unless i can go cleanly past them (except in very heavy traffic where all lanes are going much the same speed) – i particularly hate sitting alongside lorries, especially when you think about how many are left hand drive and so might have no idea you’re there.

but that means leaving a gap ahead of – my gosh – sometimes even the whole length of a lorry. which is often tantamount to having a neon sign above your car saying PLEASE TAILGATE ME, AS IT MIGHT HELP ME MOVE A FEW FEET CLOSER TO THE CAR IN FRONT

i particularly hate sitting alongside lorries, especially when you think about how many are left hand drive and so might have no idea you’re there.

Me too – in roadworks where the lanes are narrow I will hang back until there is a large gap in front so I can accelerate past as quickly as possible so I am in their blind spot for the shortest possible time.

No. You pulled out when someone was overtaking you, because you failed to check that there might be someone overtaking you. You’re at fault. The fact that she hit a side panel- your wing? confirms this.

She overtook near a junction and overtook a car indicating to turn into the junction. Its still her fault.

If i have right of way and someone hits me I coudl still have done something to avoid it but that wont make it my fault

A few folk above seem to be convinced of the opposite, and use terms such as ‘the wrong side of the road’. In the right circs, there is no ‘wrong side’.

The “right circumstance” are the ones where you dont hit a car and it was safe to do the move. Clearly there is a wrong side of the road as we are expected to drive on one side of the road though we can enter the “wrong side” when it is safe to do so. If we do this and we hit something the obvious conclusion is that it was not safe to do so.

If we do this and we hit something the obvious conclusion is that it was not safe to do so.

What if you do it and someone drives a car directly into your otherwise clear path? This can happen even when driving along the normal side of the carriageway; does that mean “the obvious conclusion” is that it’s not safe to drive past a junction at all?

What if you do it and someone drives a car directly into your otherwise clear path?

You mean its not clear then. It has to be safe to execute the move not safe to start to execute and hope nothing goes wrong during the overtake.

This can happen even when driving along the normal side of the carriageway; does that mean “the obvious conclusion” is that it’s not safe to drive past a junction at all?

It means that sometimes accidents happen even when you are on the right side of the carriage and junctions are more dangerous than non junctions.

Yeah, and why do people persist in thinking roundabouts have lanes and are acceptable places to undertake, drive alongside you, and then get stinky when you indicate to exit the roundabout ? I have taken to driving up the middle when I enter the roundabout to ensure there is no room for such numpti-ism, no ambiguity, and no dufus can put his dumb car in a stupid place.

Muppets.

P.S – except obviously where roundabouts have lanes painted on them, a practice which is happily dying out.

You mean its not clear then.

In the same way as the carriageway in my example is “not clear”.

It has to be safe to execute the move not safe to start to execute and hope nothing goes wrong during the overtake.

So it also has to be “safe” to proceed past a junction, not safe to start to proceed and hope nothing goes wrong during the crossing.

“Safe” is not an absolute: there’s always some risk of something. Granted, there are more and different risks when overtaking, and also in this particular case there was a visual indication of someone intending to do something at some unknown point which would have presented a clear risk, but the underlying point is that turning a car into the path of a moving vehicle is common to both scenarios.

This isn’t a defence of the driver who was overtaking: she was quite clearly heavily at fault. Mostly I’ve just been trying to point out that statements like “it’s [implied: entirely] her fault” disregard rule 180 (and arguably more).

Yeah, and why do people persist in thinking roundabouts have lanes and are acceptable places to undertake, drive alongside you, and then get stinky when you indicate to exit the roundabout ?

Multi-lane roundabouts without guided lanes just seem like a massive design fail. Another product of the “more tarmac therefore better” culture of the 60s and 70s.

I’m not reading all that ^^^ but I just wanted to add:

You should be checking before turning, you could have had a motorbike or pushbike or fire engine passing you.

Some may recall that last Christmas my wife and I witnessed that very thing happen right in front of us an overtaking motorcyclist ploughing into the side of a car turning right.

It wasn’t pretty. We both still think about it. 🙁

Regardless of who is legally at fault and the various other blame games, please EVERYONE check you mirrors and your blindspots before turning, even if someone shouldn’t be there.

There is more at stake than insurance.

Yeah, and why do people persist in thinking roundabouts have lanes and are acceptable places to undertake, drive alongside you, and then get stinky when you indicate to exit the roundabout ? I have taken to driving up the middle when I enter the roundabout to ensure there is no room for such numpti-ism, no ambiguity, and no dufus can put his dumb car in a stupid place.

This happened to me recently. Woman in a Quahqai suddenly appeared very close to my left about to get sandwiched between me and the railing when I was exiting 3rd exit on a roundabout. I don’t even know how/when she got there or entered the roundabout, but the roads were clear so she must of done some acceleration to get that close to parallel with me whilst on a roundabout.

I had this scenario happen to me many years ago. The overtaking driver was found 100% at fault.

where does it stop……

what about an overtaking driver overtaking an overtaking driver…….

– brother in law had exactly this happen to him when out on the road bike.

bus overtaking him, impatient motorcyclist came razzing up the outside of it all at high speed…. bang.

Think it was molgrips who either was for or aganst but certainly brought up the concept of queing to overtake…….theres definantly milage in it…….

This happened to me recently. Woman in a Quahqai suddenly appeared very close to my left about to get sandwiched between me and the railing when I was exiting 3rd exit on a roundabout. I don’t even know how/when she got there or entered the roundabout, but the roads were clear so she must of done some acceleration to get that close to parallel with me whilst on a roundabout.

there’s a roundabout near me. Every time there’s someone who enters the roundabout on my left and wants the 3rd exit. Then they honk their horn and shake their fist when I try to move across for the exit in the generally accepted manner. Every single time – gah

It’s like this OP – other driver is at fault. End of story.

there’s a roundabout near me. Every time there’s someone who enters the roundabout on my left and wants the 3rd exit. Then they honk their horn and shake their fist when I try to move across for the exit in the generally accepted manner. Every single time – gah

That happened to me almost daily on a roundabout that was part of my car commute.

In the end I gave up and always used the left hand lane even though I wanted the last exit.

I did wonder how many other people were reluctantly in the left lane for the same reason, as we all cursed each other for not following the rules 😀

When I used to teach “local practice” was just as important as the official rules of the road. There’s no point sticking to the highway code if you’re just annoying everyone else.

Like if you have two cars heading in opposite directions, both wanting to turn right?
The correct way is to pass each other and tehn turn right, but what everyone does is turn right before they pass each other.
I remember being on a driving lesson and trying to do it the right way, the look of confusion on peoples faces when you tried to go past them was priceless!

I’m pretty sure they don’t teach that any more bigyinn.

Though they do point out that turning in front of each other blocks your view of other vehicles (in this instance a cyclist).

Also, on most junctions if you tried to do it offside-to-offside you simply wouldn’t have space to turn (as the above illustration itself kind of shows).

Just checked with my Father in Law, ex Strathclyde Police Roads Chief Inspector, and a retired crash investigator.

He’s of the opinion that both are at fault, but with maybe a 60/40 split of blame towards the overtaker. Overtaker was taking an unnecessary risk, overtaken failed to check that the roadway was clear.

I never trust drivers of cars with anti blind spot mirrors – they scream of a driver unaware of their surroundings 😉