Can this be right?

Just out of curiosity G, at what point should your mate have been banned? Or should he be allowed to carry on speeding (or being caught speeding to be precise) forever?

Answer :

there does need to be some sort of proportion in these things, otherwise it is simply unjust

If you want it more concise than that, I think he should have been banned when he was. However, I can’t totally see the point of giving him a 6 month ban which in all liklihood will put him out of work, and thus cause a burden on society. I think 4 – 6 weeks, which is still severe in the circumstances, but just about survivable would be more sensible, plus perhaps a driver re-education prgoramme, or possibly a resit of his test before being able to drive again. I also think that the penalties across the piece should be proprotionate. If you really want to go off on one, try the penalties for drink driving. Seriously disproportionate IMHO.

If you really want to go off on one, try the penalties for drink driving. Seriously disproportionate IMHO.

Too light?

I can see new life being breathed into this thread yet!

Personally I feel sorry for the guy.

If we all take a minute to consider the situation that because of a few misdemeanours this guy ends up in a situation which has huge ramifications for both his personal and work life.

Now – a common criminal who steals from a shop – what are the impacts on his life? The answer is absolutely nothing. He gives up his day on the dole to attend the magistrates court, he gets a slap on the wrist and possibly a ‘community service order’ which he is unlikely to attend. We pay for his court attendance and his dole – in short no ramifications on his life.

You see what I’m getting at here?

Of course G’s mate should be punished but the issue here is getting the punishment to match the crime ergo not impacting so heavily on the poor guys life!

acracer : Who said anything about too light?

How about we play a different game? I’ll post something, then you answer something else and I’ll try to guess what you’re on about…

Seriously disproportionate IMHO.

Too light?

I can see new life being breathed into this thread yet!

It has been demonstrated on many occasions that driving whilst either:

a) dealing with screaming kids in the back
b) trying to change a CD / playing with the radio / sat nav
c) map reading
d) using a phone
e) tired / bored on a long drive

can cause at least as much of a reduction in ability to control the vehicle as three times the DD limit – ergo surely similar risk to life – ergo surely should be punished to the same level. At worst, all the above get you is driving without due care and attention. That’s a lot less than the mandatory ban D&D would get you for half a pint over the limit. It is therefore disproportionate. If the punishment has to fit the worst possible outcome of the crime, simply not paying attention should be right up there…

Thanks zokes, incidentally that is not to say that the punsihment for D & D is too low, just that there are many instances where it is not proportionate to other sentences. Similarly with speeding, with certain notable exceptions, such as in built up areas I’ve never come across a situation where driving at speed per se was unsafe, generally its driving inappropriately for the conditions thats unsafe.

generally its driving inappropriately for the conditions thats unsafe

I think most people would agree with that, the difficulty is that it’s so subjective.

Unless the rule is ‘drive as you see fit’, which it can’t be, then there has to be rules/boundaries as to what people can do on the roads.

Maybe they should be more flexible (higher speed limit on the motorway at night perhaps), or maybe there should be a return to more traffic police in place of speed cameras, so discretion can be exercised?

At last! Someone else who speaks sense…..

Precisely, I can actually remember when to get down for speeding it had to involve human interaction. It generated great lines of sardonic Police speak like :-

1) Enroute to wifes Uncles funeral, obviously getting an ear bashing from er’indoors….. “give me a break officer you can see I’m late for a funeral”…. “Better late for one than early for another sir”

2) Having lost the car big style, and nearly wiped myself out due to a flood in a hidden dip, Policeman beckons me away from the scene and asks…. “do you know why I’ve brought you back here sir?”… “No officer”… “its because you drive like a c**t and I wanted to tell you so” ….. “erm thank you officer” …. now bugger off before I cease to have pity on you”

But more imnportantly a modicum of common sense was applied. Case 1, on reflection he was right, Case no 2 actually wasn’t really my fault, and I was extremely shaken up at the time. He realised that, made sure that I was contrite and probably had learnt from the experience, then sent me off with a flea in my ear. Net result = More care in future and some respect for the plod and the law.

A letter to your MP I think!

Jeez. I’ll just re-iterate…

I have some sympathy with the guy for being caught out for slightly exceeding the speed limit on a quiet road, late at night. I’m guessing we’ve all/mostly done the same. However, I have no sympathy for him not being able to see the speed camera / police van / whatever that caught him. To be caught 4 times signifies, to me, that he’s just not paying attention, even when his livelihood depends upon it.

Is he Scottish?

Case no 2 actually wasn’t really my fault, and I was extremely shaken up at the time. He realised that, made sure that I was contrite and probably had learnt from the experience

He got that one wrong then, obviously.

He got that one wrong then, obviously.

You were there, were you?

He got that one wrong then, obviously.

To quote the film Jarhead ‘It’s like a cock but smaller!’

PMSL!

He needs to get a driver. Someone I know did this – he had a mate who was out of work, so claiming. He then paid him a few bob to drive him around. On the premise that it was cash only.
Worked out well for all actually.
Not the end of the world for sure.

He needs to get a driver. Someone I know did this – he had a mate who was out of work, so claiming. He then paid him a few bob to drive him around. On the premise that it was cash only.
Worked out well for all actually.

See how a little bit of breaking the law has snowballed into benefit fraud and god knows what else!

might as well chip in – you can’t see all the speed camera’s you buch of self riteous idiots – other wise know one would get caught – if you spend all time your time looking at your speedo and scanning the road furniture for cameras how much time are you spending looking where your going? plus sneaky sh1ts in vans hide all over the place, sometimes speed signs are hidden by hedges etc, and this is used to the advantage of the cops. Should he of speeded – no he shouldn’t have – have you ever speeded – of course you have accidently or other wise, you tell me no, then your a liar – should his family suffer for this, not really to the extent all you would be STW judge dreads out there would like. All he needs is a big enough fine to stop him doing it so often – not put out of work so a entire family may have to claim benefits.

if you spend all time your time looking at your speedo and scanning the road furniture for cameras how much time are you spending looking where your going?

So you’rr not keen on looking in mirrors, or at road signs, side entrances or anything else that prevents you from having a fixed gaze at the road 100m ahead?

ac racer :

He got that one wrong then, obviously.

See there you go again…

What actually happened as was there was a hidden dip in the road, it had flooded to a depth of about 50cm. I drove along at may be 35 – 36mph and hit it at that speed,m car washed out quite literally and spun 360 degrees aqauaplaining as it went. Im my then inexpereince I’d made the classic mistake of assumption, and I assumed that the road was OK where I couldn’t see it. PC plod had just shown up and I’d now guess that he couldn’t have charged me with anything, although I’ll never know, but between being shook up and the bollocking I got I learnt more and took more notice than any 3 points and fine would have taught me. I was terrified by it!

So you’rr not keen on looking in mirrors, or at road signs, side entrances or anything else that prevents you from having a fixed gaze at the road 100m ahead?

I think you’ll find these are not cunningly hidden – idiot.

And your speedo is?

again – idiot.

From this thread, we can assume (broadly speaking) that:

a) People who get caught speeding should be publicly executed
b) People who get away with 4x death by dangerous driving because they aren’t investigated properly are and shouldn’t be mentioned ever again
c) Therefore, the self-righteous pricks on here who GET AWAY WITH speeding, no-matter how infrequently, shouldn’t be punished in the slightest, because they weren’t investigated properly (caught)
d) People who have two pints should be hung, drawn and quartered the moment they think about driving
e) But people who are actually less alert through other distractions / tiredness should always be given the benefit of the doubt until they have an accident, in which case, if a cyclist is killed, they’ll still be given the benefit of the doubt
f) That whilst speeding should have its penalty increased to death, curiously, tax evasion, benefit fraud, and perjury should be decriminalised

And that is the twisted logic of the majority of posters on this thread. Have I missed anything?

nope zokes – that about sums it up! i think i’m off to Bike Magic to open an acount the self righteous index is lower there.

As a socio-economic model the ‘fine’ of points / cash and the impact on the bloke’s career says that it is socially unacceptable to drive in this manner. But here is the difference between ‘fines’ and ‘charges’ are we ‘fining’ this guy for ‘anti-social’ behaviour or is the government simply levying a punitive charge?

FWIW I believe that the current ‘fines’ system is simply a methodology of raising funds – people speed, miss signs etc therefore the state has a ready to go source of funding – has ‘fines’ reduced speeding and road accidents over the past 10 years? The answer is no – therefore we are dealing with a charge system and not a ‘fines’ one. Let’s be perfectly clear about this.

As I’ve said before this charge is not just on this individual but impacts heavily on his entire live, on his wife, children etc

Morally reprehensible in my opinion.

shoefiti – Member
nope zokes – that about sums it up! i think i’m off to Bike Magic to open an acount the self righteous index is lower there.

Think I might join you, feel a bit like the Hunch back of Notre Dame at the moment……

You know that bit when he swings up into the tower shouting “Sanctimony.. Sanctimony” 🙄

Utter arse being spoken on here about these issues IMHO. No one is saying that people should not be punished for their transgressions, nor that there should be no rules, just that there should be some sort of proportionality in sentencing. I haven’t got to the D & D bit yet, but when I do you’ll see what I mean…..

Oh **** it lets just go for it..

Whats the standard sort of sentence for being caught over the limit, but without breach of any other traffic law??

Whats the standard sort of sentence for being caught over the limit, but without breach of any other traffic law??

Mandatory 12 month ban at the very least, I think.

Yep thats the one,

So what do you get if you’re over the limit and had a minor accident, or broken a traffic law ???

When I got caught by a speed camera whilst day dreaming, I went out and bought a Road Angel. This notifies you when you approach a fixed speed camera or a mobile camera site. It has added benefit of having an easy to read digital speedo at eye level rather than having to look down at speedo.

Oh, a whole multitude of things, especially if you were speeding 😉

Nope, its pretty much the same sentence (minor variations, but in essence the same). So hows that proportionate? You’ve made a tactical error, and have transgressed over the arbitary and very vague line, but in so doing have not caused any harm of done anything ostensibly dangerous, (over and abvoe the intital offence obviously), and then you get nailed in exactly the same way as someone who has crashed their car, or breached traffic laws over and above what you have done. Thats not right is it?

G, as my friends and family will tell you, I am a big believer in “if you can’t do the crime etc”, particularly when it comes to motoring offences, since many people seem to think they are not “real” laws. How many people describe themselves as “law-abiding citizens” then do 80mph down the motorway? I know I do.

However, you do have my support on this one and I think some sort of appeal would certailny be a good idea. We don’t need any more people out of work.

Next time any of you are at Inners give me a shout and I’ll give you an assessment of your driving – just so you can find out how good or how crap you are. I’ll do it for the price of a bacon roll.

How many people describe themselves as “law-abiding citizens” then do 80mph down the motorway? I know I do.

Thank god – someone that doesn’t talk BS!

I also got caught on a camera once – doing 67 in a 60 at 9pm on a stretch of A road – just gone from 2 lanes to 1 – no cars for miles – central reservation – no school or hospital for miles – my attention just lapsed, as it was at the bottom of a hill my speed had crept up – it’s not like i accidently slipped a bottle of whisky into my coat pocket or accidently hit my wife or accidently sold some crack to some school kids, my attention lapsed and i got hit with a fine – it sucks – but should this be punished with loss of employment, hardship for my family, cost to the tax payers? not in my mind.

Next time any of you are at Inners give me a shout and I’ll give you an assessment of your driving – just so you can find out how good or how crap you are. I’ll do it for the price of a bacon roll.

But that means driving to Inners and I don’t think I could stand the worry over getting points on my licence let alone finding the place – I don’t get out very often 😉

(BTW – are you trained to do assessments or do you simply want a bunch of STWers to drive a very long way (at huge personal risk) to purchase a bacon roll? What if you don’t believe in meat?)

Smee – Member

Next time any of you are at Inners give me a shout and I’ll give you an assessment of your driving – just so you can find out how good or how crap you are. I’ll do it for the price of a bacon roll.

Ah, I wondered when you’d turn up….

(For the uninitiated, Smee rather sanctimoniously informed us that we should be extra specially careful when driving after cycling in case we got a bit excited and tried to huck our cars over oncoming traffic)

Tankslapper – Yes qualified to do assessments up to a fairly advanced standard.

Zokes – away and boil your head.

Zokes – away and boil your head.

Oh, so my driving must be up to standard then?

Come visit me and I’ll give you a reality check on your driving and you’ll see how crap your driving and attitude really is. Tell you what, I’ll waive my fee too.

(from another sanctimonious thread a while back)

So I can get a free test but everyone else has to pay you in bacon butties?