A new round has just opened. Mrs OTS is keen due to their environmental credentials.
Might be worth a small punt. Any thoughts or other investors?

I remember an article in private Eye suggesting some concern over one of the owners and their financial activity. As much as I like the company, it seemed a bit suspect.

If you’d have bought in early, you’d have made a packet. Can’t see that kind of explosive growth happening again, they’re already too big now. Also they’re not shares that you can just sell whenever you like, so I’d probably regard it more as paying to join the members club, than an investment that’s king to make you money. Worth it if you buy a lot of their beer or visit their bars often due to the discount though!

I’ve got an acquaintance who bought some shares in the first issue. This turned out to be a pretty good investment. But I’m sure subsequent share issues have been a lot less profitable.

Investment advice i’d seen suggested buying the shares if you like the beer and the other benefits, like discounts on food and drink in the bars and other special promotions. Think of it as paying for membership of a club rather than an investment.

“Equity for Punks” has got to be the biggest oxymoron i’ve ever heard.

As is trademarking the word Punk and protecting it aggressively.

I won’t have it in the house.

I’ll see if I can dig out the piece from Private Eye a couple of months ago.

From what I recall the most recent releases are not ‘proper’ controlled and traded shares. More of a marketing gimmick crossed with buying a membership that will give you a discount.

I think that if you lived next to one of their bars then it might worth considering for the discount, but probably not as a true investment.

Think any brewer concentrating in online off-sales now is onto a winner come the next lockdown.

@blackflag how true is that? Obviously I would be treading on their toes if I marketed a beer called Punk IPA – if I did the same but with Punk NEIPA or Punk Stout would they have a go at me?

it’s not my favourite beer in the world but it’s reliably decent, available and cheap in Spain, and it’s got Vegan on the bottle so there’s always a few in the fridge. If I could get hold of say Moor or Cloudwater so easily I might not buy Brewdog though.

Their shares don’t trade on any market IIRC, so you can only cash out by selling to another share holder / investor or whatever their rules allow (they’re normally restrictive).

From an investment POV its probably too late to make any real gains as the company has had its major growth. Also as a private company, you can’t easily cash out and they could keep raising more money dilluting your investment etc.

@bob_summers, lovely people

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/28/brewdog-lawsuit-bar-punk-brewer-pub

Illiquid stock sold at a premium around brand.

Personally I would only do this for a high growth tech startup or early stage co where I had specific industry knowledge. E.g quick buck to be made if you are an area manager of large pub chain and can see growth. Or you are area manager at competitor and are getting your ass kicked by them.

That said, a tiny amount you don’t mind losing, for a bit of fun or to be part of their club why not.

I bought and read their book ‘Business for Punks’ it wasn’t a very challenging read. In fact it has completely put me off their products, which for a non- drinker wasn’t difficult.

I think their ship has sailed.

I won’t have it in the house.

Neither will I, but that’s because it’s an average beer artificially elevated via their very good marketing.

Think any brewer concentrating in online off-sales now is onto a winner come the next lockdown.

I love how it costs as much (if not more) to buy directly than it does to buy from Tesco, Asda etc. They must be shitting themselves from laughing so much at the size of their rapidly expanding bank balance.

it’s an average beer artificially elevated

I disagree.

Their Hazy Jane is excellent. Costs £10 for 8 cans in Morrisons.

Similar price or cheaper to any other hoppy beer, from any other brewery,

Hops are expensive.

I love how it costs as much (if not more) to buy directly than it does to buy from Tesco, Asda etc. They must be shitting themselves from laughing so much at the size of their rapidly expanding bank balance.

I presume that’s in part because shipping individual slabs of beer is expensive. Shipping a lorry load of beer to a single distribution center is comparably cheep?

I’m an investor, on paper I’ve done pretty well out of “shares” bought in the 2nd crowdfunding. However I bought them on the basis that it was a club that I quite fancied being a part of (albeit not so much now….), if I made any money on it then great, if I lost it then it wasn’t a big deal. I wouldn’t really suggest anyone else buy into it on anything other than this basis, for all the reasons outlined above.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/28/brewdog-lawsuit-bar-punk-brewer-pub

Always used as an example but rarely understood. As a copyright holder you HAVE to pursue all infringements equally otherwise you have no ground to stand on, see Slik vs Fox most recently. The other part of it is the guy in question was a chance who was trying it on. Brewdog HAVE been dicks but that’s not a good example.

But yeah, their shares are crap, as pointed out you can buy stuff for less from the supermarket so for that reason alone I’d be giving them a swerve. Think of it more as an over priced Scream card (remember them?) than an investment.

I presume that’s in part because shipping individual slabs of beer is expensive. Shipping a lorry load of beer to a single distribution center is comparably cheep?

It’s more expensive even before delivery!

Fair do’s @mrblonde – remember Specialized being equally shitty over their invention and IP “Roubaix”! And didn’t Budweiser Corp have a go at Budvar for having the cheek to market their beer as being from Budowice (sp?) for the last few centuries!

I’ve got a couple of shares I purchased a few years ago,

At £25 a share it’s unlikely to be an investment that’s going to make you any money

As the others have mentioned you can’t sell the shares in the same way you can a normal FTSE/AIM share

There is some trading of shares amongst existing share owners (via the Share holders forum) although that’s for sub £15ish a share for a large volume (or even less) and I suspect the overheads of selling A single pair of £50 would make it pointless. ( as a side note If you want to buy a proper investment quantity then getting a couple from brewdog To get your account set up then look to purchase the rest from existing members via the share trading days on forum (although that won’t get you the benefits))

There was talk of an eventual public float But with brexit and the rona That’s years (or decades) away

Brewdog seem to split opinion. I think the carbon negative angle that they are pushing is to be commended. I quite like
Some of the beer, and what they have done pushing “craft” beer into a lot of places where previously the only option would have been carling. Yes there not as good as cloudwater or some other micro brewery but they make decent beer that. And be had for less than £2 a can

There are the issues around getting legal over the name punk and another case of ripping off people’s work. Some one will always pop up and mention this when ever there is a tread online. But you don’t see that on a nespresso thread and nestles record for corporate responsibility is far worse. So I do thing some people think it’s cool to hate brewdog.

Equity for punks is also a rubbish name.

In short buy them if you like the discount but don’t expect These investments to make you Warren buffet.

I love how it costs as much (if not more) to buy directly than it does to buy from Tesco, Asda etc. They must be shitting themselves from laughing so much at the size of their rapidly expanding bank balance.

It’s not unusual for supermarkets to make a loss on beer they sell, and likewise for large manufacturers to make a loss or very little profit on their sales into supermarkets so it’s not really a fair comparison. (Source: 7 years working in the booze industry)

Always thought their beer was just “alright”, nothing amazing, but I guess it’s probably “real ale” for people that don’t like “real ale” but want to have beards and claim they were always punks and liked motorbikes before the cafe racer/barber shop explosion of recent years.

Brewdog always seemed to me the David Grey/Dido/Adele of the beer world. David Grey/Dido/Adele albums were great for people who weren’t bothered by music and rarely bought any but it as great for the background of dinner parties.

Anyhoo, I better shut up before they sue me for my forum name

I disagree.

Each to their own.

But yeah, their shares beers are crap, as pointed out you can buy stuff for less much nicer beers from the supermarket so for that reason alone I’d be giving them a swerve.

I guess it’s probably “real ale” for people that don’t like “real ale” but want to have beards and claim they were always punks and liked motorbikes before the cafe racer/barber shop explosion of recent years.

Brewdog always seemed to me the David Grey/Dido/Adele of the beer world. David Grey/Dido/Adele albums were great for people who weren’t bothered by music and rarely bought any but it as great for the background of dinner parties.

Woo-hoo! You win today’s beer and music snob award!

Your prize is a four-pack of Hofmeister and a copy of Blue’s Greatest Hits.

Nasty company.

They brew good tasting drinks and have a stated objective to become a global brewcorp – and act like one.

They had a spat with CAMRA because they weren’t allowed into CAMRA beer festivals because, from a technical standpoint, what they brew doesn’t count as real ale.

Rather than go “fair enough, you’ve a standard and you have to draw a line somewhere otherwise there’s an argument that two dogs lemonade could be marketed as real ale” they got pissy, lawyery and PR-y.

There are *so* many really amazing beers out there run by genuine enthusiasts who want to produce with real craft, who don’t want to take over the world like just another pubco and contribute to a richer local tapestry and community feel (which, in turn, leads to an actual reason to visit other cities who’s towns are generally identikit – but for the local ales that are produced). So the question is this:

Why contribute financially to a conpany that produces good drinks but who’s owners are clearly the antithesis of good, friendly helpful brewers. The sort of people who’d see smaller local guys be competed into the ground if it means more profit for them.

Buy elsewhere, tbh.

“Fair do’s @mrblonde – remember Specialized being equally shitty over their invention and IP “Roubaix”!”

Great joy was had when Fuji bikes reminded specialized that they only licenced the trademark from Fuji, for wheels only, within the USA.
I still won’t buy anything Specialized…

“Equity for Punks” has got to be the biggest oxymoron i’ve ever heard.

As is trademarking the word Punk and protecting it aggressively.

And this: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/26/brewdog-lone-wolf-birmingham-pub-change-name

It’s a hypocritical brand with average beers at ridiculous prices.
Keep your shares and your beer, there’s plenty of alternatives…

This is a stunning album!… 🙂

Woo-hoo! You win today’s beer and music snob award!

Your prize is a four-pack of Hofmeister and a copy of Blue’s Greatest Hits.

I accept your gracious award, but we all know that no true Blue fan would take a copy of their greatest hits without the Dane bowers/Victoria Beckham club banger “Out of your Mind” as a bonus track 😀

@ihn – you may call @darthpunk a snob but that description is actually a much more emotionally based version of what I’ve articulated.

I’ve a friend who’s director/owner of quite a large advertising firm. He’s a fan as are most of his peers.

He freely admits he can’t be arsed with the beardy real ale obsession of learning about different brewers and says part of Brewdog’s “genius” is that it’s a brand that makes people feel like they’re drinks afficionados without actually having to give it any real thought or effort.

So @darthpunk pretty much nails it, tbh.

I accept your gracious award, but we all know that no true Blue fan would take a copy of their greatest hits without the Dane bowers/Victoria Beckham club banger “Out of your Mind” as a bonus track

Chapeau 🙂

It always assumes me when you take a stand on any issue how quick it is for someone who doesn’t agree to accuse you of trying to be cool or virtue signalling.

FWIW i hate Nestle too and i’ll readily admit their actions are far far worse than Brewdog. But when there are better options out there I think it’s best to avoid those who set a low bar.

The sort of people who’d see smaller local guys be competed into the ground if it means more profit for them.

don’t be dumb, that is literally the opposite of what they do 😂 all of their bars sell beers from local microbreweries, plus they have invested in and/or loaned money to several other startup breweries including the excellent Brew By Numbers microbrewery in London. (can’t really be bothered to re-hash all the arguments against the fake news, etc that is regular spouted on BD threads, most of what has been written above is bollocks though 😃 They are pretty good guys, not perfect, but it’s all relative… total saints when compared to pretty much any brewery/conglomerate of a similar size or bigger)

Thanks all, something to think about.

But yeah, their shares beers are crap, as pointed out you can buy stuff for less much nicer beers from the supermarket so for that reason alone I’d be giving them a swerve.

I brew my own all grain beer.

I have tried a lot of different beers.

If you could point me in the direction pf “much nicer” beer for less than £1.25 a can, I would be very grateful.

Think any brewer concentrating in online off-sales now is onto a winner come the next lockdown.

What proportion of their revenue is from off-sales? Presumably they still make a chunk of cash selling bottled beers over the bar, and I believe they actually have a few branded Brewdog bars as well. I’d want to understand their exposure to lockdown closures before investing.

I don’t like their beer either, but that’s not really relevant. That kind of upscaled ‘craft’ beer seems to be pretty well embedded in the market, rather than a fad.

As a relatively local company, I contemplated the equity thing way back, but for a variety of reasons I didn’t bother. In hindsight, I’m not fussed by that.
Since then they have just done more and more for me to dislike them.
Their beers have also went downhill big time (Punk is incomparable to the original and tbh, I’d rather drink a pint of *insert name of ubiquitous pub draft lager* than Lost Lager).
I’ll still buy some of their collaboration beers, as I can’t get things like Cloudwater locally.
I’m curious to watch how the Carbon Neutral thing goes, as they are making some big claims with as yet, little hard evidence behind it.

In short, if you like their beer and ethos, go for it. I don’t think they will see huge financial return now.

I think I may have recycled my print copy of The Eye, but references to it are here:

https://kmflett.wordpress.com/2020/03/13/private-eyes-analysis-of-crafty-brewers-brewdog/

If you could point me in the direction pf “much nicer” beer for less than £1.25 a can, I would be very grateful.

Yet yourself down to Aldi and grab a few different cans and try for yourself – plenty for <£1.25. My current favourite is this one but that’s my personal taste – yours may well be different.

Prior to COVID, even with my EFP discount it was cheaper to buy from the supermarket (although only a small subset of their beers got sold in supermarkets). Now, it’s generally cheaper to order from Brewdog direct.

As for their punk credentials, I’m with @zilog6128 – they’re probably better than anyone else of a similar size, and as the OP mentioned their environmental position is really very good.

Then there’s the beers. I can’t think of anything better that is generally available in supermarkets – not around here anyway. Punk and Dead Pony Club are perfectly fine IPAs, 5am Saint is a very nice red ale, Hazy Jane whether in the O.G. variety or the new less strong mainstream version is again a decent example of the recent hazy fad. Barnard Castle Eye Test wasn’t bad either, as a beer, a political statement, or as a subsidy mechanism for hand sanitiser. Yes, if I really want to push the boat out I might prefer something from Mikeller or Cloudwater, but it will cost me 2, 3, or 4 times as much and it will be a lot harder to get hold of.

All that said, I also agree that you should not buy the shares as a conventional investment.

Yet yourself down to Aldi and grab a few different cans and try for yourself – plenty for <£1.25

My local Aldi doesn’t seem to stock much IPA for some reason?

I do get some from Lidl from time to time, which varies between £1 and £1.25 a can.

Although slightly different from the various Brewdog offerings I drink, I would argue that it isn’t “much nicer” for a lot less money.