I am thinking of replacing my old Gore N2S (old version of the Phantom) and am toying with getting an Endura Stealth. What I love about the Phantom though is that it is so versatile and can be worn without a base layer in spring/autumn as well as the dead of winter with a base layer.

Is the Stealth as breathable as the Phantom and would I be able to use it for 3 seasons? I have a Gill eVent jacket if it is pissing it down so windproofing and breathability are more important to me than waterproofing.

Or am I better off with a Phantom?

Personally I have no issues with breathability of the stealth, cannot comment on the gore.

Absolutely 3 seasons, I wore a merino base over the weekend in -3 and opened the pit vents! Not because of sweat but heat.

Totally waterproof.

I love it but some may find it too warm

stealth gets very warm on the move but i find it chills quickly if you stop, this maybe down to the heat not disapating and then condensing, or something, keep moving anf you are fine, i’d not recommend it for temps above a couple of degrees, much too warm

Not used the Stealth but I too have got the old version of the Phantom (the N2S one) which I rate very highly (I’ve got two). Anyway, I went to buy an new Phantom the other day and what I found was that the new one is cut slightly differently – squarer in the body basically, not as ‘roadie’ and I found the new shape not as good – the belly hangs more and it’s generally baggier.

I ummed and ahhed about it for a while and in the end went for a Gore Oxygen instead. It’s more cash (£100 discounted) but the cut is very similar to the old Phantom and it’s fantastic to ride in. The arms don’t zip off but the cut is very good and I’m glad I went for it over the new Phantom.

So, try before you buy…..

If you’re after a midweight windproof shell in a roadie cut, cyclesurgery have the Sugoi Firewall jacket (reviewed in this months ST mag) reduced to only £65. I ordered one today as something a little (but not much) cooler than my Gore Cosmo.

gingerflash – have you seen a size chart for the Sugio Firewall? I can’t find one online.

I’ve got the new Phantom – love it, very versatile, but concur with comments about cut – it’s too baggy around the torso (not shoulders or arms).

I emailed Chipps about this today. He suggested they came up a little smaller than Gore. The large fitted hi. I’m 5ft 11 and medium/skinny. Medium in Gore, probably large in Sugoi.

Regarding the Stealth, it sounds like it might be too warm for me. I have a fantastic Assos Airblock jacket that I bought a few years ago but have barely used because it is just too warm

I’ll have a look at the Oxygen and Sugoi Firewall.

I emailed Chipps about this today. He suggested they came up a little smaller than Gore. The large fitted hi. I’m 5ft 11 and medium/skinny. Medium in Gore, probably large in Sugoi.

Sizing guide is here incidentally.

gingerflash – thanks. My N2S/Phantom is XL (mainly for the sleeve length – I am 6’3″, skinny with orangutan arms). If I go for the Firewall I think I will risk the XL as I can’t believe I will be an XXL!

I’ve got a old Phantom and i find it too baggy and not roadie enough.

Reserved a Sugoi Firewall in cyclesurgery. Picking it up tonight hopefully.

Out of interest, what did the STW review say about it?

The summary seemed to be something along the lines of – warm and almost waterproof, very fitted arms so can only fit base-layers underneath.

Reading the article, my concern was that it will be too warm. They gave their top recommendation to the Gore Oxygen OS, largely because it is thinner than most softshells and so is more versatile.

Did Cyclesurgery offer any advice on sizing? I am tempted by one of these but am not going to be near a store this week. My issue is sleeve length primarily.

I find the Stealth too cold for me. It warms up ok when you’re moving, but you want to be going straight into a heated place afterwards.

It feels like it sucks the heat out of you. Because it is close fitting there’s not enough room under it to layer up. My verdict, ok for road, but not if you are standing on the side of a mountain.

damitamit – Can you let us know what you think of it when you get it, especially arm length and overall warmth (I am hoping mega long arms and not too warm!)

Got the jacket this evening from Cycle Surgery in Selfridges, only place which had a small left (b8stards charged me 10% more because it was in Selfridges, thou I did have vouchers to use).

Bit bored tonight and got a new camera at xmas so here’s some pics!

First up my old Gore Phantom. I’ve had it for a year now and used it mainly for mtb’in and riding to work. I have only twice removed the sleeves. I find the phantom too baggy (its a small). The torso is not bad but i think the whole point of N2S is for it to be by the skin, which it is not. The sleeves on mine are way too baggy. Also the back is too baggy, so if you put something like a mutitool in the pocket, the back droops down too much. Something which really annoys me. Hence this jacket is no-good for road riding without a rucksack/camelbak.

(sorry for the bad photos)

And now the new Sugoi Firewall 220 Bike Jacket. Its a much closer fit. The arms are not overly long but not short. It seems just right when I bend over. The rear pockets are close fitting so hopefully should hold heavy items well. I have also noticed that jacket uses the 220 softshell material everywhere apart from 2 strips on the back on each side which are just a breathable thermal material. I think this is quite a good idea for ventilation. I’ve had jackets in the past where just the front is windproof but I always find you need the arms windproof too. Finally there is a rubber grip strip around the inside at the bottom of the jacket to minimise it riding up.

I have yet to try the Sugoi outside, but I will be riding to work tomorrow (used the Gore today) in -2 or whatever it is at the mo so that should be a good test. My guess is I’ll wear my lab gear thin merino ls baselayer underneath (wore this under the Gore today).

Incidently, they had the new 2009 Phantom in the store so I tried that on. Seemed a closer fit than mine but still a bit baggy. Also noticed that the material was much nicer than my current one. It was actually a ‘soft’ shell.

Will post back after I’ve used the Sugoi…

Amit

The photo links seem to not be working. If so then here they are:

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/damitamit/BikeJackets?authkey=85YVLvGqBDE#

Amit – Thanks for the write-up. Two questions:

1) Do you think the sleeves on the Sugio Firewall about the same length as on the Phantom?
2) Can the Sugio Firewall be worn without a base layer, like the Phantom?

The stealth is ok in reasonably warm conditions, i rode mine as a spring jacket, all vents open, bib shorts on underneath. The lower back and kidneys do absorb a lot of moisture though, so it does get ass cold if you stop moving, the big double lower back pocket is to blame i guess.

I was out the night before last though with just a LS helly wicking top on underneath riding across the top of the Peak District and it was marvellously warm, even had to open the side vents going up to Burbage from the bottom of Stannage.

1. The sleeves on the phantom are slightly longer. But the sugoi sleeves fit me ok.
2. I suppose it could (i havent tried). Thou not sure how the material would feel.

I think its definately a bit warmer than the phantom.

Also, I went to wash it today and the label says to wash before the first time you wear it (i didnt). I wonder why?