Will an 18" frame with a 70mm stem and a 350mm post-off current bike work for a 6'5" bloke?
I ride Lee Quarry a lot, Gisburn, sneaky Rossendale stuff, fast flat out black route style, hard hitter,ex DH'er, but with occasional day long XC style riding.
Currently on an older SC XL (20" C to T) Chameleon, should ideally be looking at a 20" Bluepig but cant stand the gateish appearance. Will an 18" be too small?

Any advice? Going to order before the 27th and use the 10% CRC voucher.

Depends where you live you could pop along to 18bikes in Hope, Peaks and have a ride on their demo.
I am 6ft and have an 18in with a 70mm stem(cause thats what I had)and reckon you might just get away with it for most of you riding, might suffer on the all dayers. Could fit a Thomson layed back seat post as 18bikes have? I found myself pulling myself forward and had to adjust seat position forward when out on the demo bike fitted with 50mm stem.
Ton likes/d his 20incher, he has similar dimensions to your good self.

I think you'd struggle to get the saddle high enough with only a 350mm seatpost – at 6'5" you must have a 35/36" inside leg..? I'm 6'2" and had a medium (17.5") BFe with a 410mm Thomson post and I used most of it when I wanted to have the seat up for longer rides… I was getting close to the minimum insertion at times so you may struggle. Am also wondering that you may find the 18" a tad too short…

I do agree that a smaller frame makes more sense for a more 'chuckable', but may be uncomfortable on longer rides.

an 18in will be far too small for a 6'5" rider. You need a 20. And a 400mm post too.

ok, thanks for the replys.
Think im going to stick with the Chameleon until it breaks, as much as I love the detailing and design of the Bluepig-and it would be ideal for me, I just cant bring myself to buy the 20" for visual reasons.

I've dismissed the 20" Evil Sov-£600 for Tange cro-mo is taking the piss, the Transition Transam uses a hidden headset so is a no-no, and the Dialled Alpine is too small.

Brant-please make a 'Alpine-Pig' in a 20" but with a highly dropped and braced TT as per the frames above-its a nice little untapped market for you.

I can't imagine a good looking bike for a 6'5" gentleman, without it having 29in wheels.

There's a demand for a larger 26" wheel hardcore frame with plenty of TT clearance though ala Evil Sov, Transam, Alpine etc without going to 29", your Bluepig is nearly there in that aspect apart from the TT clearance. I love the Bluepig detailing and design though hence seeing if I could fit on an 18"

I'm not entertaining 29" wheels-I'm hard on bikes, before the Chameleon I was riding a lot of BrooklynMachineWorks stuff. Im using Profile BMX cranks on the SC.

I'm in Whitworth if you want to have a look at an 18".

Its also for sale!!

Thanks for the offer Olie but it looks like an 18's too small.

There's a demand for a larger 26" wheel hardcore frame with plenty of TT clearance

You're 6'5" – there is plenty of top tube clearance.

But you're half right – I'm looking at various methods of increasing standover for the new line of 160mm travel hardtails we'll be able to offer in the next year. We're really excited abut them, which have only been possibledue to big investments in tooling and lots of testing (a problem caused by CEN standards has led to us learning so much about how things work, we've made big leaps forward).

So anyhow – the longer fork lifts the head tube more, though to be honest, I've only really percieved it as a really a problem for smaller riders.

Though I guess you might wear baggy shorts and have very large testicles.

Anyhow.

Let's have a look at some numbers.

According to my Bikecad here Blue Pig frame, with a 140mm fork topped out gives a standover of the following.

20in – 32.9in standover (120mm head tube)
18in – 31.9in standover (115mm head tube)
16in – 31.0in standover (115mm head tube)

So – as you might expect I guess when you measure something in the middle, and keep one end still, and move the other end by 2in – things move up about an inch per frame size.

And if you compare the inside leg measurements of riders suited to 16in frames, to the inside leg measurement of riders suited to 20in frames (or your own inside leg – is it more than three feet??) – you'll see why I don't think you need more standover.

And that of course, is measuring standover in the middle of the top tube. Not nearer the front, which is where problems happen, if you see what I mean. And by shortening the head tube, to get the standover lower by lowering where the tubes start (a more effective way in reducing standover), then you get people using ludicrous amounts of spacers and wacky stems to get the bars up to saddle height, or above, in some mistaken belief that that's where they need to be).

The fact is, my 6'5" friend, very big bikes with 26in wheels look shit. I think 5'10" is the perfect height to have a cool looking bike.

And I bet you were that tall when you were 12.

Many "extended seat tube" bikes I've seen are actually just that – bikes with extended seat tubes. Not dropped top tubes.

They use extra supports to support the seat post so that it has less extension – still requiring seat post penetration to a half inch or so below the "true" top tube. All this succeeds in doing is stiffening the bike, so it has less compliance. That's not much fun. You'd be better off simply running a long post and a smaller frame without the reinforcements.

..VERY GOOD !! brant…
the only thing is that these "extended seat tube " rigs just LOOK that right , especially for the taller riders…
I`m 6.2 and have an 18 blue pig….fantastic !!..but it looks big,
my mates asked me why I went for a larger size frame with the pig…but its an 18 inch frame as all my other bikes …

the only thing is that these "extended seat tube " rigs just LOOK that right

I know what you mean.

But at the cost of extra weight, and a worse ride? Hmm…

We're introducing a 17in frame next year to split the difference between the 16in and 18in – possibly a 19in too. And we'll be dropping the top tube a bit, at least – it's quite close to the top of the seat tube (that's a ti frame throwback).

I'm scribbling now.

Brant – any plans for a 29er frame?

Yes – rigid forked ti frame coming soon. That's rigid only. No suspension.

No cheaper steel option on the cards then?

Thanks for the in-depth reply Brant.

I do know my SC has got a long head tube (5.75”)-however standover is 30.5". I do like a high front end, Im running a 10mm stem spacer and 50mm rise bars! I've also machined the rear drop out plates to shorten the back end.
I can almost hear you tut tutting and shaking your head!
I do like to be able to pop the front easily for manualing through stuff and hopping stuff at speed and dont seem to have any problem carving the lower trail at Lee Quarry or the switchbacks at Gisburn etc, climbings fine as well. I do ride technical 'off piste' stuff and like the clearance to able to dab from the TT-a 29er isnt going to happen Im afraid.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030820030109/www.santacruzmtb.com/bicycles/chameleon/specs.asp

Regarding the 'extended seat tubers' the Evil Sov in an XL ticks the boxes, it has a shorter head tube than the Bluepig (allthough I'd have to run some serious stem spacers!)-slightly longer TT and of course massive clearance. It is though taking the piss at £600 and isn't homegrown-I'd rather support UK companies as you offer good products. I except you have to still run a long post to ensure its sits below the actual TT junction.

Like I said previously size wise the 20" Bluepig is right for me but the lack of clearance and the visual sizing are putting me off which is a shame as I like everything else about it-I've been trying to decide since CRC got them in stock and only registered on STW to help me decide. I think I'll keep the SC for awhile longer (allthough it has been battered and Im concerned about it cracking now) and keep an eye open up Lee Quarry for a few different sized Pigs and blag a ride on one and also see what you come up with next year.

Thanks
Kyle

edited to add;
"We're introducing a 17in frame next year to split the difference between the 16in and 18in – possibly a 19in too. And we'll be dropping the top tube a bit, at least – it's quite close to the top of the seat tube (that's a ti frame throwback)"

sounds promising!

For the record, the Evil Soveriegn has a LONGER head tube than the Blue Pig (129mm vs 125mm). The slightly longer TT is counteracted by the much slacker seat angle – our frame will have a longer bar-to-pedals reach.

What length fork are you running on your Chameleon to get that standover height out of interest?

No cheaper steel option on the cards then?

Yup – plenty in the pipeline in steel 😉

Brant

Evil Sov figures I got are off the CRC website

Running a 2009 140mm Fox32, I've not measured my frame-that sizes I quoted are according to that link to the 2004 SC website, its the 1st Chameleon model that started going away from the 100mm forks of the early US built ones-I think they built it around a 130-160mm fork, the webpage is via the webarchive time machine thing so not all the links work properly.

I do know the TT drop from the top of the seapost is nearly 3" I roughly measured it the other day. I can go measure the bike if you want?

Evil Sov figures I got are off the CRC website

I got them off this page – http://www.silverfish-uk.com/products/238-evil_bikes_sovereign.php?r=3m4d0b10s0

But similar thing 4.92in is 125mm = the same.

Running a 2009 140mm Fox32, I've not measured my frame

Grab a tape measure and have a measure. I think you'd be surprised. Fork length is a major factor in standover height 🙂

Brant;

Your right! the TT at the mid point is 32.5" running 2.35" Minions

Its the long headtube-but also the 3" TT/seattube drop that angle's the TT so much.

It does "look right" even if it offers not much better 'very large testicles' clearance in the middle of the frame.

The plans for the 19" with a dropped TT sound good though.