Following on from my woes in this thread;

Hit (Car) by foeign lorry -insurance experiences

As family holiday is fast approaching, and it looking more and more likely insurance co will wirte car off (still no idea), i need to make some quick decisions on car.

This is all out of the blue, not budgeted for so looking at options. Clearly i’ve been used to the barge of the 5 series, it was (is) a lovely car, but for those that have had and moved away from a 5 series , what did you go to, was it “as good”, better or wish you didn’t?

I know cost wise most offerings such as A6, V90, Superb, EClass are all priced within 5pence of each other so it may be horses for courses -but any real world experiences would help. Most of my drives are sitting on a motorway, hence why the last car was in good mechanical condition, so comfort is what im after..

thanks all,

This is all out of the blue, not budgeted for so looking at options. Clearly i’ve been used to the barge of the 5 series, it was (is) a lovely car, but for those that have had and moved away from a 5 series , what did you go to, was it “as good”, better or wish you didn’t?

I had an E39 and my current 3 series is actually as big inside & out plus actually wider between the suspension than my pal’s 2019 5 series.

3 is the new 5 🙂

I’m driving a Jaguar XF Sportbrake. Pretty big inside and decent size boot. Taken several family holidays away and has roof rails if you want to stick bars. / a box on top.

I don’t do a lot of miles so went for the 2 litre turbo petrol (which is terrible on fuel – 250bhp and about 24mpg average) but there a 2 and 3 litre diesels that I’d think were a lot better. The 2 litre diesel Jag XE I had before averaged just shy of 50mpg with some fairly enthusiastic driving.

The 8 speed gearbox is nice, the seats are comfy and the chassis feels perfect to me. It steers nicely and it’s rear wheel drive – yet they haven’t tried to make it really firm so it rides properly. It can either waft along or you can stick it in sport and it’s pretty fun.

It was between this, a Superb 280 and an A6. In the end the Jag was surprisingly cheaper for spec / age / mileage. The superb shot up in price April 2021 and I got the Jag just before their prices followed.

I’ve currently got a 68 plate 3series 320d Msport as a hire – it is clearly a lot larger than 3 of old. It’s also a bloomin good car (its got the fancy digital cockpit pro) lots of toys. though it’s soooo uncomfortable, think princess and the pea -except minor road imperfections coursing through your spine… That said, i was taken around Goodwood in an M4, and the handling of the 3 series is not night and day apart -incredible car..

@joebristol thanks very much that low down, i had been thinking of the XF as well but always been slightly put off due to reliability (this may be an unfair view now)..

**Paging Molgrips, Molgrips to the thread….**

I’m not going to say the Jag is going to be 100% reliable given the brands history.

I had my XE for 4.5 years from new (company car) and it didn’t let me down. I think it had one turbo hose replaced under warranty at a service but that was it.

I’m just over a year on the XF so far with no major dramas.

I would say on both the infotainment system could have the occasional glitch. Minor thing requiring a turn off / lock the car / unlock and it would be back to normal.

For an estate I think the XF a fine looking thing too. Although my wife thinks it looks like a fridge as it’s white and she doesn’t like estates 🤷‍♂️

As family holiday is fast approaching, and it looking more and more likely insurance co will wirte car off (still no idea), i need to make some quick decisions on car.

Hi!

If my experiences are anything to go by you’ll end up having to get whatever a) doesn’t turn out to be a dog, b) is still available c) can actually becomes yours quickly enough 🙂

I am still getting car ads in my FB, someone advertised a pretty nice looking E class, albeit a saloon, 2016 51k miles only £11k but I suspect that’s a typo on the price.

Worth noting that cars like the E-Class, XF and CLS in estate form have air suspension in the back which is a huge help if you load the big boot with all your family holiday stuff. Not sure if the V90s and A6s have it, but I’m pretty sure the Superbs don’t.

Yeah XF definitely has air suspension – did a run to a builders yard for aggregate and sand which on normal suspension would have had the rear sitting really low and handling odd. Didn’t even look like there was anything in the car from the outside as the air kept it level.

I moved from BMW to Merc E class last year.

Overall I think I regret the decision.

I wanted a car for motorway driving, family holidays and carrying the dog/bikes etc. I have gone for a 2nd hand fully loaded E220d.

Pro’s

Looks better than the BMW IMO

The adaptive lights (option) are truly amazing and brilliant living in the Welsh boarders with unlit roads

The self driving (option) makes motorway driving a pleasure. I understand in many ways it is a better system than the Tesla one.

Fuel economy on the motorway is great, roughly 55 to 60 mpg if sticking below 75mph. This drops off quickly the faster you go though

Refinement on the motorway is great (although see point below). A BMW requires your input, the Merc just wafts along.

Con’s
Rattles and squeaks – far too many for a premium car

Suspension – almost randomly some road surfaces or imperfections cause the suspension to not cope. That just wouldnt happen in a BMW.

Ergonomics – some switches are just completely in the wrong place. The info system is not as good as BMW

Doors – they just do not stay open on any sort of incline. My 12 yr old son has badly hurt himself a couple of times from the doors shutting on him. Merc confirmed they know they are not great, but there is nothing that can be done about them

Motorway refinement – at about 80 mph a whistling starts from the screen area. Merc couldn’t locate it.

Merc Servicing is stupidly expensive + the service centres are far from helpful.

I dont dislike it, but it will be my first and last Merc.

Cheers Molgrips. Ref the suspension thing, that’s something i liked about the 5series, but i didn’t think the sportbrake came with that as standard? Having looked at the V60’s and V90’s im surprised they don’t do it as standard as well considering they ar most likely to be loaded up!

edit : thanks @FunkyDunc – ye merc servicing costs…. I do have a freind that runs an indy Merc specialist,so it could be mitigated, but no idea (ill have to ask). I’ve always used a brilliant BMW indy local to me, so servicing so far hasn’t been a strain at all. Intersting about the rattles and squeaks, that would annoy me -alot.

Boring but VW Passat. Huge boot. I do miss the self-levelling suspension of the Vauxhalls I’ve had for caravan towing duties, but other than that nothing.

I went from an F11 5er to a Merc CLS350 Shooting Brake.

Aesthetically the Merc wins hands down, both inside and out and is a far nicer place to spend time. The interior of the CLS is streets ahead of the BM for comfort and quality but it did retail at over 60% more when new. The BM infotainment is better (more intuitive) but the Merc Sat-Nav is better.
Dynamically the BM was better to drive but I haven’t really pressed on in the Merc yet.
The 8 speed ZF box in the BM is better than the 7 speed GTronic+ in the Merc; smoother shifting and seemingly better at deciding what gear to be in.

Edit to add; the Merc boot is bigger but the aperture is much smaller and has a deep lip. The BM boot was flat with a huge opening so easier to use.

Aesthetically the Merc wins hands down, both inside and out and is a far nicer place to spend time.

That is a fair point the BMW 5 series feels a lot smaller inside than a Merc Eclass and that was what pushed us towards the Merc.

I have found the 9 speed Merc box to be better than the 8 speed BMW one.

Rattles and squeaks – far too many for a premium car

I was initially annoyed with the refinement on mine, but part of that was down to very noisy tyres and 19″ wheels. It’s much better on 18s and with quieter tyres. Also, I’ve noticed that the interior creaks a bit when the car twists e.g. pulling out of my sloping drive, but otherwise only when hitting a bit pot hole. There are no actual rattles at all. And now I’ve just changed the shocks there’s pretty much no creaking on rough roads and the ride is great and still what I’d consider sporty. But it’s not on ‘sport’ suspension. The car is now 9 years old, so perhaps a little creaking is inevitable? Not sure on your budget.

Edit to add; the Merc boot is bigger but the aperture is much smaller and has a deep lip.

A CLS-specific thing, I suspect the OP won’t be in one of those since they are quite rare. The E-Class is probably better in this respect.

Re the transmission, my 7g+ isn’t super smooth, although it’s getting much better post-service, but they do seem to vary. However I thought that it’s surprisingly good at knowing what gear to be in. In E mode it doesn’t kick down very quickly, but that’s by design. It also does things like hold onto gears if you’re going downhill, which I find quite nice. It’s overall not as crisp as my old Passat DSG but it’s more intelligent.

the Merc Sat-Nav is better

It’s certainly entertaining.

“Please take the next left onto the A? Four? Two? Three? Two?”

What about a high spec Mondeo estate? More room than most of those listed

The Superb estate is very good and huge inside too but has some VAG reliability issues and expensive repairs (DSG etc.)

One more point re Volvo self levelling suspension. I’ve read before that it’s done by shock absorbers that pump themselves up as the car drives along – Nivomat – which is theoretically more reliable. But shocks always wear out and apparently they are £1500 to replace.

The shocks on mine were £120 each for top quality, because there is a separate air spring and compressor. That of course may fail and isn’t cheap, but at least it’s not built into a wear item!

More room than most of those listed

Have you ever seen an E-Class or CLS estate? They’re absolutely gigantic. Mine is so big I can barely reach stuff that’s at the back, even when the seats are up, and I have to almost climb in. And I’m not short. It’s a little longer than an E-class boot but less overall volume due to sloping roof.

hmm, all intersting.. I had thought about a Ford – but im being a snob (i shouldn’t, beggars and choosers and all that but cant help it – i want my car back tbh)..

Why can i not find a CLS youger than 2017 on autotrader – im sure they are still being made, or are people inadvertantly saying they are that good and cant part with them? weird..

They stopped making them.

The adaptive lights (option) are truly amazing and brilliant living in the Welsh boarders with unlit roads

Yeah they are amazing, almost hypnotic in the way they adapt and adjust to conditions.

One for the OP (and I know that Molgrips won’t agree with me) but if you are considering a VAG Group car with auto, please test drive one as the S-Tronic gearbox can be bloody horrible with slow pick-up from stationary.

the 2018-on cls is saloon only I think.

v90 is a lovely thing inside and a good chunk cheaper than the competition. I think thats where I’d be going.

Paging @alex, who may have useful input here

Yeah they are amazing, almost hypnotic in the way they adapt and adjust to conditions.

Yes my wife thinks I am mad as a keep mentioning it. You get a light show when the headlights switch on, which I guess is the system calibrating itself, to the way the curtains of light appear and disappear as you drive along.

Google was suggestingt they were not going to stop being produced until 2022, but clearly would explain it.

ref VAG -i think tbh, it’s probably no worse than a 10 year ZF box.

@5lab do you happen to have a V90? I took a v60 out for a drive a couple of days after my car was taken off the road. It was nice but a 71 plate (ex/current demo i think) and prob 8-10K more than i’m willing to finance. The V60 felt a little cramped in comparison to the 5 series, but im not sure if that was just me. the chap at volvo said the V90 was only bigger in boot and ~20mm wider overall??

I don’t have one, but a mate does and I’ve been in it a few times. It certainly feels spacious, if you want exact measurements ridc is a really good resource for comparing cars..

https://www.ridc.org.uk/features-reviews/out-and-about/car-search

eta : looking on autotrader, 3 year old cars appear to be starting a good £8k cheaper than 5 series/e class, so should be able to get one thats newer/has more toys for your cash

I had a 2017 5 Series Touring 2.0D SE (not the sport) for nearly three years. It was new (Pre-registered). I’d had lots of Audi’s, VWs, Skoda’s, etc previously but (apart from a S4 over 20 years ago) was the ‘nicest’ car I’d ever had. Good things for me were

– it was HUGE. Both in terms of stuff you could put in with the rear seats down and the room for the (grown) family.

– super comfy, on the motorway brilliant, just wafted along very quiet, very serene and very comfy. Seats were fantastic as well,

– Surprisingly fun in sports mode, that engine was 180PS I think and was full of torque-y goodness.

– Wasn’t too much to run. Good MPG (50ish I think esp on longer journeys), services were eye watering tho and tyres (see below) were quoted at 500 an end (didn’t pay that).

– Infotainment / satnav / IDrive etc all good. Cabin was a nice place to be.

On the downside

– I never got used to parking it! As it was a showroom special it had strange options, so those fantastic adaptive lights, uprated stereo (which was good to be fair) and a few other things but not reversing cam. Maybe I’m just rubbish at parking but it didn’t seem to fit in the tiny car parks a lot of universities have.

– Oh and massive gangster wheels which defo compromised the ride on bad surfaces (along with run-flats)

– Servicing/tyres as above. It only had two services I think but they were £700-£800 each!

– it was too big. Kids started driving themselves, it was too nice to put a bike in the back and after C19 I went from 17000 miles a year to about 5000 and wasn’t going back. So no point keeping it

My Koraq now is nowhere near as refined but it’s way cheaper to run and aside from the waftiness I don’t think I really miss anything from the BMW.

If Mondeo isn’t posh enough, would the equivalent Mazda 6 do the job? Pretty sure it is the same car with a different body on it…

I don’t think the Volvo V60 is particularly big

Oh and when we did trade it, I looked at a 1 series and really didn’t like it at all. Maybe not relevant for OP who seems to still need a big-ish car. But it was tiny and felt really cheap.

We looked at a few cars (including the 3 series which I was tempted by but it was too much money as we really wanted the hybrid one), ended up coming down to

1) switching to petrol as wasn’t doing the miles

2) still wanting an estate or hatch/SUV thing for dogs (and occasionally bikes)

3) not wanting to spend as much money

4) getting a decent finance deal and knowing we could trade part way in if something electric came out that we wanted.

Ended up on CarWow after testing the Skoda (had 2 yeti’s), got a stonking deal and could spec the extras I wanted (including reversing cam!) and had it delivered in 10 weeks.

I’ve had 3 Merc e-classes over 14yrs and they have all been comfy, capacious, reliable well built cars. Wehn the last one got nicked we got a XC60 but I would also have gone for a V60 if we could have found one. Not as big as the E class but really nicely built cars too.

Why can i not find a CLS youger than 2017 on autotrader – im sure they are still being made

They still make the saloon. There’s a new one near us I keep seeing. Not as distinctive, but more conventional and I guess it’s up to you if you like that more.

No estate version tho sadly. The title of best looking estate will be passed on to Jaguar or VW for the Arteon.

v90 is a lovely thing inside and a good chunk cheaper than the competition. I think thats where I’d be going.

I discarded them because the mpg is apparently terrible, and the engines not that great. I never looked at one directly but, I was put off by how cheap the interior was in a ‘posh’ XC90 that a friend has.

Oh and meant to add the self parking (option) on the E Class is also really helpful given the cars size, but the all round 360 deg camera really does help too.

Sat Nav – I just use Apple Car Play – I have always found google far better than any in car Sat Nav

OP – Also should have said. What do you want the boot space for? We have the Merc E class and and a BMW X1 SUV. The boot space in the Merc is truly massive. However as with all estate cars the load height is quite shallow and low down compared to an SUV.

In many ways we find the X1 boot space more usable because it has more height.

The same actually goes for getting in and out of the car. There is no doubt that getting in and out of any SUV is better than any estate car.

Oh and just another thought. If you can find a BMW 530d or bigger number, without a shadow of a doubt that is the best estate you can get. When I was looking 530d’s were not available with the mileage or toys I wanted, but I would jump at one if I could find the right spec.

I test drove the 530D. That was/is a lovely engine. Couldn’t justify it tho.

thanks again all.

that ridec website does seem to suggest some very marginal figures between V60 and v90(cross country – but assume inside is the same and non cc)

something I’ve just thought of as well – there’s been a spate of Merc thefts round my way – 3 in my road alone, so slightly put off by the Merc.

@alex i had a 1 series as a courtesy car a while ago, it felt really plasticy..

FWIW – I recently went through a similar decision process (though coming from a Caravelle, so driving a Trabant would likely have felt more dynamic in comparison so take anything I say on that front with a pinch of salt!)

The answer for us was: Superb. The biggest inside out of all of them, the slightly sunken boot floor actually a benefit for me as it’s one of the few cars I can get the mirror box for my telescope in (niche requirement!). I test drove all you’ve mentioned, and in no way wanting to offend anyone so all just IMHO:

5 Series – just too cramped inside. God, I’ve always wanted a 5 series estate so gutted that rear passenger room was mince – but that mustn’t be a biggie for you. A6 and Passat a bit average and not huge. V90 was just so small inside (boot was ridiculously small, rear passenger room not good), although driving cockpit/seat etc are spectacularly good. E-Class was good on space and comfort, bit like a tarts handbag inside, but wanted petrol and these are limited in availability and once you get the kit you want the price is mental.

So, bought a 2019 Superb. The one with the silly engine and 4WD. After 2000 miles in Europe on a summer family holiday (me, wife, 10, 14 and 17 year old kids) with 2 bikes on the Thule tow ball rack, I can conclude:

Cons –
road noise from tires on some surfaces is way too loud
standard rear suspension is not massively happy with all the weight in/off the back. Bit of groaning and the occasional knock.
It is not as plush inside as some others.
Expectedly not the best fuel economy (36mpg on long 120kph motorway runs)
Sits on lowered suspension so some steep ramps etc caused stress (though never actually grounded it)

Pros –
Nice to finally be free of EGR valve and DPF related stresses
7spd DSG is unbelievably better, really excellent, than the dsg in previous cars that have had it we’ve owned over the years (Touran, TT, Caravelle)
I found no driving conditions, surface, motorway, A road, B road or boggy off camber crazy steep car park that it did not absolutely excel at gobbling.
Supremely comfortable front and back – even with my seat back and down as far as it would go, rear driver side passenger still in great comfort
Mahoosive boot
Canton sound system is fantastic, as are all controls/ent. screen, CarPlay etc.
Boy does it shift (had it up to 135mph on Autobahn without any issues (no bikes!), then had a stern talk to myself after a close-shart incident…). Hunches down and whooshes off whenever needed
…but yet wafts along in Eco mode like a luxo-barge when needed
Umbrellas in both doors are a fab touch and extremely useful
Headlights seemed excellent
I really like the automatic handbrake, though will miss doing donuts/drifts/handbrake turns in large empty snowy car parks…

Overall, my favourite car that I;ve ever owned, even surpassing my old Scooby-do.

thanks big scot.

Just for clarity of what the car gets used for.. Family – 4 of us doing the long road journeys into France/Italy – so all the kit that goes with that + bikes. Most of the time though it’s just me getting to work/clients if i need to, or chucking the bike in the back..

Lots of really could examples/opinions in this post, if not slightly confusing what i should do.

Merc (s) – just says it’s more practical, from a size performance aspect, but you’re paying
XF – so far (i know small example) seems like a half decent fit – price in line with V90 and lower than BMW5
Superb – good fit, do i worry about horror stories of gearbox – wont discount it though as i assume the EGR and DPF is mostly due to non motorway miles..
BMW5 – not as big. I’ve never found that an issue, so anything else would be an updside
V90 – not as big as merc and superb – possibly not as refined to drive as it’s made out

one thing I would add – i rented a merc e class estate hybrid diesel, and whilst it was nice, the hybrid battery was a massive lump in the middle of the boot floor, making the actual estateness of it rubbish. The rest was lovely though

I would definitely look at SUV’s as well.

Our X1 2.0i petrol does low 40’s mpg and is very nippy. As I said I cant see what advantages an Estate really brings over one unless you spend your life getting large Ikea flat pack furniture. Yes the Merc is slightly more refined but not by much, and the X1 build quality is better than the Merc. Strangely too the X1 plastics are superior to the 1 series. (other SUV’s are available)

In terms of bikes in the back, I can get a road bike in the Eclass (just) with wheels on. No chance with an mtb as the handlebars wont fit in the gap.

In the X1 I can get mtb and road bike in with front wheel off. I can get mtb frame only stood up in the boot of the X1, but not in the Merc. which means I still have all the back seat space.

I can add some comments here.

I’ve no direct experience of the Merc but I have several friends with the E-Class – all report issues with airbags. Seems a common fault. They all love its size tho, but as much as I like the exterior, I can’t get on with the interior. I also had a V60 T8 for a week and also found it very small (albeit very quick).

I’ve had e39 5’s before (including an M5), and now have an F11 520d. I love it. I wish I had a 530d, but that will need to wait. I brought the cheapest one in the country at the time* – £6k and it had 146k miles on it.

Over the last few years, I’ve solved a few of the typical issues. Intake manifolds and EGRs are a classic fault on the N47 engine, and I recently replaced my manifold (£200) and cleaned out the EGR. Now runs really well, and feels fit.

Even before then, I have done some EU driving, all the way to Croatia no less, and it returned up to 63mpg when driven carefully. When not driven carefull, e.g. on the autobahn, it will (eventually) get up to around 140/145mph, but it is happiest at between 120 and 130 mph – just something about German cars that they feel ‘just right’ there.

It’s an SE – I chose the SE purposely – as I wanted 17s and the softer suspension. Speaking to a friend with an idential Sport model, it seems he prefers the ride of mine. It just wafts along, managing the bumps and potholes, and still grips well enough (for something of its size).

Inside, rattles, wear and so on can all be dealt with by a bit of eBay work to replace bits that break or wear – I’ve sorted a worn bolster, replaced a broken cup holder etc. and its now near enough rattle free.

In terms of sat nav and audio – well its in your hands if you want to improve it – you can buy an inline system called MMI Prime to retrofit Apple Car Play into the standard system, and I have the widescreen display. MMI prime with a Fire stick in the USB gives you everything you and the kids need to do a long journey – and its all as if its OEM. I had the base sound system – no biggie – I just swapped out the speakers and fitted an in line amp, and now I have a properly solid-sounding audio system as well.

In terms of overall ownership – you either need to be handy with a code reader and be early on preventative maintenance (I still need to sort the timing chain guides – an engine out job, and needs to be done on ALL of the N47/N57 engines) you’ll have no issues at all, especially if you do plenty of oil services (every 6-10k).

I’m a big fan, and it does everything I need – so much so that I’ve been looking at replacing it with a G31 530d MSport and I just cannot justify the monthly payments for a car that, tourque aside, isn’t going to do much more than what I already have. Its not quick, but its quick enough.

Go in with your eyes open and don’t dismiss based on spec, Comfort seats aside (I really wish I had those), you can update everything yourself anyway. F11 fan here.

*Not sure if its easy to find a solid £6k example now tho!

*Not sure if its easy to find a solid £6k example now tho!

It’s not and is the reason I bought a Merc.