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just be doing some saturday afternoon searching on the tinternet, came across some info about an antheist hildrens camp run in the summer for children to go on i presume to learn to be an athiest. Found ths concept quite interesting and got me thinking is there a leader or leadership of the athiests (as there would be in most other belief systems) to orgnise and run these type of events to promote their beliefs?
I thought the point about being an atheist is that you had no beliefs to promote. 
Doesn't have/need a leader by the very nature of what atheism is. (although some out there will try and make a quick buck through atheist cults, I mean camps)
Some may argue Richard Dawkins - more the poster boy I suppose 😉
thanks i can continue my reading, apologies for the miss spelling in the original post
Atheism - a non-prophet organisation. 😀
apologies for the miss spelling
🙄
There was a time when atheism was promoted in the name of Marx.
His "teachings" on dialectical materialism as an interpretation of reality, made him the nearest thing to an "atheist prophet" ..... I guess 💡
Atheism is not a belief system. End of.
Um,..... nah. Look it all up. Do the work.
Atheism is not a belief system. End of.
Isn't that Agnosticism? Surely Atheism is the belief that there is no god?
Check out Dawkins. He's pretty much an evangelical aetheist and probably the nearest they've got to a leader.
No it's not a belief in the same way that I don't believe in fairies, I simply don't think about it other than to think how stupid you have to be to go for that guff.
And so it's not a belief system.
If you familiarise your self with Richard Dawkins work he is first and foremost a fantastic scientist who finds himself an unwilling spokesperson for people who don't believe in crap.
i assumed it was not a belief system until earlier on today when i foud out about the camp,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/
seems to say it is a belief system as well, so is it a belief in nothing that is followed or a belief that all other belief systems are wrong, made up, fanciful or not as good as the belief in nothing, i'm getting more confused the more i look into this.
thanks
No it's not a belief in the same way that I don't believe in fairies
So to summarise your belief about your belief is not a belief then.
There is no leader as it is not an organised movement. Many vocal proponents but no leader.
It is a belief system but also a philsophical approach to knowledge - to beleive in something one must have evidence to support your position;the evidence being tested via a scientific methodology etc.
Is it OK for the kids of atheists to believe in Santa?
genuine question BTW
The camp thing seems like a load of bollocks to me.
I'm in atheist I don't believe in god. That's it. I expect it's the same for most of us.
It's pointless being drawn into a semantic argument as they just go round in circles. The most usual being but Ah you believe in no god so you do believe in something ---WTF and furthermore FFS!
There are any number of outdoors groups that have no religious element the woodcraft folk springs to mind.
Well, I just followed your link and I have to say, the BBC are misrepresenting me. Atheism has nothing to do with belief. Everything is a matter of probability, as quantum mechanics demonstrates. Given the [i]absolute[/i] lack of any testable evidence, the probability that there is a god is so infinitely small that you might just as well say there is no such thing. Like unicorns, fairies or Father Xmas.
However, as with science, this is only a theory and it is available for disproof, unlike religions which propose unalterable "truths" (each of them different depending on the religion)...
As Richard has said to the idea that he may be wrong, what if he "dies and meets 'god;'":
"Well, I'm sure we could sit down and have a nice scientific discussion about where He fits into a quantum universe and then move on to the next interesting idea..." 🙂
Is it OK for the kids of atheists to believe in Santa?
IIRC he is not a prophet of any religion so why would it matter 😉
You may as well ask if it is ok for my kids to beleive in dragons and magic. Of course it is they are young, have imagination and are allowed to be foolish. An adult really should know better.
Santa used to be saint Nicholas so there is a tenuous link. I would have misgivings about telling a child of mine that Santa did exist.
How you approach atheism depends on the person. But essentially I agree with Mr Whoppit. You need to prove the existence of something if you are going to believe in it. I don't believe and agree with the proofs that have been put forward for any god to exist.
You need to prove the existence of something if you are going to believe in it
Prove [i]you[/i] exist...
Perhaps more pertinent to ask who is the leader of the theists?
Is it the pope, the archbish, the imam, the top thetan, the head rabbi, the bestest snake handler?
Oh yes, I forgot, they've not actually worked out which of the exclusive religions is the real one yet, but still have time to spend having a dig at atheists...
...and they're all still puzzled by homosexuality, despite it being older than most religions, bless their little god fearing socks...
I love atheists. The most zealous of the zealots.
I thought that was your mum..
I love atheists. The most zealous of the zealots.
The term Zealot, in Hebrew kanai (????, frequently used in plural form, ?????), means one who is zealous on behalf of God. The term derives from Greek ??????? (zelotes), "emulator, zealous admirer or follower"
:banghead:
I love atheists. The most zealous of the zealots.
😕
Given the absolute lack of any testable evidence
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Coyote, stick to catching roadrunner, you're really good at that...
Happy to let folk believe what they like so long as those beliefs don't lead to them killing infidels or non-believers (of whatever faith).
Atheism isn't a belief system as such, I think its just where a lot of educated folk end up when they weigh up what they know (think they know?) and the probablility of the whole heaven and hell thing.
Atheism isn't a belief system, it's an absence of a belief system.
Atheists have no leader and don't need one. Dawkins is a pretty good representation of it all but he's one of many, both good and bad (cough, christopher hitchens, cough).
There's not much to "preach" about in atheism (other than good old common sense and science) and no need to go and have gatherings to appease a god you don't believe in so there's no need for structure.
It would be nice to have a bit of a figurehead to take charge and put some of these religious crackpots in their place, though.
Atheist actively deny the existance of a god. Agnostics just dont believe / care / require proof.
Atheist actively deny the existance of a god.
I suspect most people who call themselves atheists would say that they believe the possibility of there being a god is so small that it's not worth taking seriously - as opposed to that there definitely isn't one.
No, atheists don't believe in a god, actuvely denying it is just making conversation.
Do we? Does that mean I get a prize? (to one happy hippy)
Atheism is a belief system like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Strangely enough, I don't actively deny the existence of fairys or unicorns, or ghosts, or banshees, or dragons, or gnomes, or pixies, yet this troubles theists less....
Is it OK for the kids of atheists to believe in Santa?
As an atheist parent, I'm quite happy for my kids to believe in Santa, they'll grow out of it at some point and it's really quite sweet.
To the OP: No, no leader I can think of. I've read some of Dawkins' books, they're well written and entertaining, but it's hard to think of him as "my leader".
Dawkins is an evangelical atheist. I dislike evangelists of any type.
What CHB said.
Dawkins and his fan-boys are just as bad as the Muslim extremists and Christian God-botherers.
Live and let live.
Calling zero, one, or many gods to thread number 5 please.
Sense of perspective urgently required.
Dawkins and his fan-boys are just as bad as the Muslim extremists and Christian God-botherers.
Dawkins is fine - if you read his books you'll realise there's a reason he's won prizes for his writing - but his fan-boys are a nightmare.
Mind you, neither Dawkins nor his fan-boys were ever responsible for suicide bombing...
The term Zealot, in Hebrew kanai (????, frequently used in plural form, ?????), means one who is zealous on behalf of God. The term derives from Greek ??????? (zelotes), "emulator, zealous admirer or follower"
Since when did a word's [i]origin[/i] necessarily equate to it's modern day definition ? 😕
Are only Barbarians guilty of barbaric acts ?
Is an 'awful' painting one which inspires an overwhelming feeling of admiration ?
Zeal - fervour for a person, cause, or object; eager desire or endeavour; enthusiastic diligence; ardour.
Zealot - a person who shows zeal; an excessively zealous person; fanatic.
Surfer wrote,
"Atheism is a belief system like not collecting stamps is a hobby."
Very good- I was trying to say something similiar but couldn't get it so neat.
Is an 'awful' painting one which inspires an overwhelming feeling of admiration ?
awful
- 3 dictionary results
aw?ful
??/??f?l/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [aw-fuhl] Show IPA
Use awful in a Sentence
See web results for awful
See images of awful
–adjective
1. extremely bad; unpleasant; ugly: awful paintings; an awful job.
Sorry!
Surfer wrote,"Atheism is a belief system like not collecting stamps is a hobby."
Very good- I was trying to say something similiar but couldn't get it so neat.
I cant claim it but nore can I attribute it.
Coyote, your statement is the most ridiculous I have seen for a while.
Sorry!
And so you should be - you missed out the origins of the word 😀
Origin:
1200–50; ME a(g)heful, aueful; see awe, -ful; r. OE egefull dreadful
Quote : [i]"see awe"[/i]
Awe - an overwhelming feeling of reverence, admiration, fear, etc., produced by that which is grand, sublime, extremely powerful, or the like: in awe of God; in awe of great political figures.
As far as whether Atheism is a "belief system", I guess it depends on your definition of "belief system". One definition of "belief system" is : [i]faith based on a series of beliefs but not formalised into a religion; also, a fixed coherent set of beliefs prevalent in a community or society[/i]
I certainly know people who consider their Atheism to be part of their belief system.
Coyote; meep meep!
the short answer is: no-one.
the long answer would begin like this: 'it depends what kind of atheist you are'
Splitter!
If I hear one, just one more idiot espouse the theory that 'atheism is just another religion, and Dawkins is the leader/prophet' I just might go out on a non-religious anti-stupidity killing spree.
Atheism is humanity's defence mechanism against invasion by self serving, money grabbing, fundamentalist arseholes.
It demands nothing: No financial or psychologically dubious contributions, no tithe, no guilt, no retribution, no hate.
None of those crutches that some people, too afraid to consider themselves as a fully functioning independent entity NEED to justify their place on a confusing, anarchic and seemingly senseless planet.
It offers no solutions, but it certainly removes the possibility that some of the most easily assimilated and morally convenient answers can in any way provide a truth.
It demands nothing: No financial or psychologically dubious contributions, no tithe, no guilt, no retribution, no hate.
So Dawkins made no money by promoting atheism? Hitchens contributes all profits to charity?
All religious extremism is basically self serving.
All [b][u]religious[/u][/b] extremism is basically self serving.
Fixed it for ya.
Do not feed the trolls
Of course he made money Coyote, but he didn't tell anyone that if they didn't believe him they would suffer in pain for all eternity.
The speaking clock makes money - it tells the truth as well.
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So if the atheists are comfortable in their own beliefs, why feel the need to spread the good word so forcefully? Bit of a crusade or jihad really, no?
No.
How many churches in your town?
How many mosques in your town?
How many atheists calling at your door?
I'm doing it for my own entertainment, it's a lot less messy than shooting fish in a barrel. 😀
It demands nothing: No financial or psychologically dubious contributions, no tithe, no guilt, no retribution, no hate.
A bit like religions, it depends on the individual atheist. 20% of the world's population live under atheism, to which much of the above could apply. Closer to home, a few atheists preach stuff which could be said to incite hatred against those who don't share their atheist beliefs. But then again, it wouldn't be fair to tar all atheist with the same brush, eh ?
Not sure where you live btw, but I find that I can easily resist demands for 'financial or psychologically dubious contributions, or tithe, or guilt, or retribution, or hate'.
Seems that the atheists on here seem to feel the need to denouce religion on a fairly regular basis.
Two churches in my town, no mosques that I know of and anyone calling at my door trying to force their opinions on me generally gets around 3 seconds of my attention.
Shooting fish in a barrel can often render them inedible.
No we're responding to you.
And I am preaching what exactly?
YOU are the virus.
WE are the antibodies
Words fail me.
Time will tell which of us wins out, but believe me, if ANYONE attempts to FORCE me into a belief which contradicts my instincts and life experience, I'm going to fight back. And by that I do mean with physical force and extreme violence.
I'll bear that in mind and certainly sleep with one eye open in future.
believe me, if ANYONE attempts to FORCE me into a belief which contradicts my instincts and life experience, I'm going to fight back. And by that I do mean with physical force and extreme violence.
WTF do you live ? Or is that supposed to be some sort of joke ? 😕
........I believe what I want to believe, I've never felt the slightest pressure to believe what I didn't want to believe. Not even on here.
EDIT : Oh I see that you thought better of it and decided to delete your post ........ fair enough 🙂
Who is the leader of religion?
Who is the leader of mountainbikers?
Who is the leader of humans?
I have had enough of religion and am happy to stand up and be counted as someone who clearly in a loud voice and with some conviction says,
Religion is complete and utter shit.
Baby jesus made you say that though.
Religion - fairy stories for adults
Simplistic answers to difficult questions for the credulous
Opium for the masses ( cliche no 456 for stoner)
You show me proof of the existance of any god and I will believe.
Why is christianity right and judasim wrong? Or why will catholics burn in the methodist hell? Why is hinduism wrong?
anyswer me one of those questions you god botheres
Not sure where you live btw, but I find that I can easily resist demands for 'financial or psychologically dubious contributions, or tithe, or guilt, or retribution, or hate'.
You have little choice over its impact on you, financially as well as the stifling of academic and medical research. How it impact others may not concern you, however I think it should.
Closer to home, a few atheists preach stuff which could be said to incite hatred against those who don't share their atheist beliefs. But then again, it wouldn't be fair to tar all atheist with the same brush, eh ?
Ernie, Can you refer me to any atheists preaching hate?
Hold the front page! I think I've found god!
[img]
Yes, post deleted - was meant to be ironic, (the non religious adopting a fundamentalist/totalitarian and typically religious approach to atheism, etc), but realised that it probably wouldn't be seen as such.
Seems I was right. 😕
No, false alarm. Photo wouldn't load...
I preach ridicule is that a hate crime??
So if the atheists are comfortable in their own beliefs, why feel the need to spread the good word so forcefully? Bit of a crusade or jihad really, no?
No. Never had one knock on my door. Never been preached too by an Atheist.
There is an irony to your posts. Atheism is not a belief. Why can believers only understand atheism in relation to the rigid framework of their own faith. Why do they always need to find a "leader"
The fact that you cant think outside the confines of your own faith should not lead you to believe the same of everyone.
"Dawkins and his fan-boys are just as bad as the Muslim extremists and Christian God-botherers."
Complete and utter bollocks! No one has EVER done the things religious extremists do in the name of Islam or Christianity for atheism. Atheists are not terrorists, they do not force themselves upon people in their own homes to preach at them, they do not have wars in their name.
Religious fundamentalists are the most terrifying things in the world today, and the most dangerous. The reason why you have to go through so much humiliation at airports is because of religious extremists. I don't think any atheist has ever killed huge numbers of people in the name of non-belief- no doubt somewhere it has happened in small numbers, but the reason why the world is so messed up at the minute is because of god botherers.
I'm genuinely upset by the fact that you'd think that this was the case.e
Seems that the atheists on here seem to feel the need to denouce religion on a fairly regular basis.
Thank goodness.
Opium for the masses ( cliche no 456 for stoner)
Please please TJ, if you're going to quote Marx, then properly and fully, he did after all, write so eloquently :
[b][i]"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."[/i][/b]
He was also very good when describing "Christian" socialism in the Communist Manifesto :
[b][i]"Christian Socialism is but the holy water with which the priest consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat. "[/i][/b]
One for Tony Blair maybe ?
Closer to home, a few atheists preach stuff which could be said to incite hatred against those who don't share their atheist beliefs. But then again, it wouldn't be fair to tar all atheist with the same brush, eh ?
Any references yet Ernie?
Hi ernie - still don't care...
Wait, wait! I found it! God!!!!
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Why can believers only understand atheism in relation to the rigid framework of their own faith.
I can imagine atheism is a very liberating experience.
The fact that you cant think outside the confines of your own faith should lead you to believe the same of everyone.
When have I mentioned my "faith" or indeed being constrained by it. I was merely observing the fanaticism of some atheists and their lack of tolerance.
"Dawkins and his fan-boys are just as bad as the Muslim extremists and Christian God-botherers."Complete and utter bollocks! No one has EVER done the things religious extremists do in the name of Islam or Christianity
Fair comment. I was commenting on their enthusiasm for promoting their own point of view and complete disregard for others.
mrben100 - Member
Atheism - a non-prophet organisation.
well, it made [i]me[/i] laugh anyway.
As far as atheists not foisting their opinions on people, and killing believers, I'm pretty sure large numbers of people died as an [i]indirect[/i] result of the actions of a number of despotic leaders during the last century, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot among them. Of course, I could be wrong; I usually am.