[Closed] Assessing the risks / mitigating the damage. (Big OTBs @BPW)

And that's why so many wear FF and full body armour, even on the blues.

It's also why so many ride enduroy geometry full size bikes.

Gws fella

Some (newer?) Garmins have incident detection - which fires off a text if finds something (need a smart phone for that to work).

If you're a Strava premium user, you can do a similar thing with their Beacon feature.

It definitely keeps the Mrs from worrying on my commute.

Hope you mend well.

Ouch, glad it's not a life changing injury.

I go there a bit and living fairly close and knowing a lot of riders mean you hear a lot about the day to day shenanigans of the place.

The blues claim a lot of the injuries, they're wide, smooth and fast. I've never seen any rough trails there but they've recently closed Terry's for a major rebuild so I don't doubt it wasn't it's best a few weeks back and Sixapod closes all the time for work, it's easily the busiest trail. It's the same old tale really - it's faster than most sections on most trails at BPW it's faster than most other trails at other venues simply because it's so 'easy' to ride and it's the home of the less experienced riders so you find a lot of people laying bruised and battered because they've run out of room at speed. The "one more run" run at the end of the day is another big factor I guess.

I know all cycle venues are subject to some kind of HSE oversight and I'd guess BPW more than the usual trail centre places - you don't have to sign a disclaimer for Cwmcarn for example.

Short of sending a member of staff down every trail and every sub-trail there after I'm not sure what could be done really, it would take hours and I'm not sure many of the centre staff are up to a quick run down the pro line to look for corpses. Signing out? I'm not sure that's practical, a lot of people won't do it, just because there's nothing in it for them, but even the most public spirited is going to think twice about it if they've done 10 lifts and ended up at the end of hotsteppa - it's a long boring climb back to the centre when you're knackered, passing your car / van...

I think it's one of those times we have to rely on the individual - don't ride alone, or if you do tell someone where you're going and when to expect you back - just like going out to the woods for a ride.

Glad you're reasonably ok!

Merthyr A&E gets a lot of riders weekly, they certainly noticed the increase in admissions when it opened!

RE the checking out at the end of the day. I was up there in winter with a mate and he had a puncture on the last run of the day while we were doing Trey's Belly. By the time we'd given up on sorting it (tubeless wouldn't seal) and and rolled down to the bottom it was nearly pitch black and the centre staff were locking up! Surely our two cars in the car park were a clue there were still riders on the hill? Up until then I'd always presumed they swept the trails with a rider like they do in the Alpine resorts at close of play, obviously not! It's for that reason I now avoid the last run of the day so that if I do fall off there will be another rider on their way down behind me.

As for the Blues getting rough? They get a lot of use so that's understandable. I have noticed that after each one is closed for maintenance they do seem to be getting much more 'jumpy' in nature, much easier to stack it at low speeds now. I know they've added Blue+ to their grading but it does seem like they're letting the trails evolve above their grading in parts.

Sorry to hear that you took such a hit. Sounds like you did a good job on yourself!!

As for the comments, I guess BPW is no different from any other trail centre? I ride in the evenings at the FOD all through the year and am very aware im on my own if it goes wrong. Luckily im always with a riding buddy

You are over thinking it, just get out and ride or take up knitting, there are far more serious past times out there, if you don't have the skill to ride fast.. be cautious and ride within your ability, understanding and accepting risk, is all part of participating in adrenaline sports.

Mountain biking and crashing go hand in hand, but luckily, most of the time, except for a few cuts and bruises we get away with it.

However, after what sounds like a fairly serious trip to hospital it may be worth revisiting your crash and trying to work out what happened and why.

There are, of course, always those freak crashes, that happen no matter what, and if yours was one of those, then sorry, there is probably nothing you can do to avoid another. But generally, those freak crashes are actually fairly rare.

So, why did you crash? Tired at the end of the day? Trying something you don't have the skill set for? Going too fast due to overconfidence (again, typical end of the day kinda thing)?

So, you can minimise crashing by

1) Knowing your limits, and packing up one run early! (easy to say, difficult to do)
2) Get some specific tuition (highly recommended, even if your not a full time crasher like me..... 😉
3) Improve your observation and thinking on the bike (tends to come as your skills become more instinctive, giving you more time to think about what you are doing etc)

And then you can mitigate the results of any crash that does occur:

1) Buy and wear suitable protection (just because your riding a blue doesn't mean "No pads and a half shell helmet" imo)
2) Learn to crash - sounds silly but how you bail from the bike makes a BIG difference to the end result (i often see people OTB, right onto their face still holding the bars, brake locked on, panic on their face etc) Recognising it's all gone petetong and getting out of there can help enormously. The problem with this one is it takes crashing to learn how to do it
3) Up spec your bike to be capable of more before you get bucked off (generally doesn't work, because you just ride faster / harder stuff....)

Regarding the "not being left on the hill alone" factor, then riding at BPW, rather than some random wood in the middle of nowhere is an immediate advantage, as is riding with mates. You need to be self sufficient here, the more exposed you are on any given ride (to the risk of injury stranding you somewhere you'd rather not be stranded) the more you must plan for that eventuality to occur!

Healing vibes, sounds like a nasty one.

As Pjay says - Relying on riders to "clock out" would lead to endless false alarms. Getting staff to "sweep" the tracks would add a lot of man hours to the wage bill, for negligible benefit.

I have to agree that it's a case for personal responsibility.

BPW contributing towards getting mobile reception on the hill might be the best safety measure?

My personal rule (same as when skiing/boarding) is that when I think I've got one more run left in me, that's when to call it quits for the day. Takes a bit of discipline though 🙂

Also not wearing a FF at BPW is madness IMO, unless you're just bimbling down the trails. As said above the blues are the fastest therefore amongst the most dangerous IMO in terms of severity if you do crash. I've been loads and never needed my FF lid until last time when I came off on BlueBelle at high speed and landed on my face! I cannot tell you how glad I was to be wearing it then!

+1 on personal responsibility. Any other solution just isn't workable. Healing vibes OP!

Short of sending a member of staff down every trail and every sub-trail there after I'm not sure what could be done really, it would take hours and I'm not sure many of the centre staff are up to a quick run down the pro line to look for corpses.

This is exactly what they do @ Whistler.

The lift shuts, and they have sweeper runs by the public - you each pick a trail and take the corresponding lanyard, hop on the (closed to the public) lift and go do a cruising run down, just surveying for people who may have spanked themselves.

Drop the lanyard off, they know the trail is clear. Obviously not totally fool proof if someone has spooned themselves good & proper off the track, deep into the woods, but you have to make a decision to which level are people going to check.

OP - I totally agree. Your accident and injuries sound fairly awful. GWS.

I've visited BPW once, 2 months ago, and was shocked at the lack of organisation and ownership of the area. I don't want to be malicious, because I think the concept is awesome and I want the place to succeed. There are many changes needed to bring it up to scratch.

For example, on none of the info boards do they say what to do in an emergency. Call 999 is obvious, but nothing about how to contact the centre. I had to Google it from the hillside, and then got the answer phone on multiple attempts. In the end I rode down the hill because someone else had come to look after the knocked out stranger I came across.

Also, changing room and showers. Not essential, but pretty obvious requirement unless you prefer people wiping down with paper towels in the (two trap) toilets. There were a few hundred riders on the Saturday I visited.

The lack of landscaping at the car park makes the whole place look rubbish. No footpath from car park to cafe for example.

Going for my second visit on Friday, so it clearly isn't the end of the world for me, yet.

I agree about the lack of risk assessment and adequate risk mitigation, and it really gets my goat to see a great concept so poorly carried through. The whole experience could be better, and considerably safer for everyone.

If you're paying, then how about a sticker / RFI thing like you get on sportives?

String a few sensors down the trails and you know where people have passed through.

And it would allow for official times - though I'm not sure how H&S that is.

This is exactly what they do @ Whistler.

The lift shuts, and they have sweeper runs by the public - you each pick a trail and take the corresponding lanyard, hop on the (closed to the public) lift and go do a cruising run down, just surveying for people who may have spanked themselves.

Drop the lanyard off, they know the trail is clear. Obviously not totally fool proof if someone has spooned themselves good & proper off the track, deep into the woods, but you have to make a decision to which level are people going to check.

This is a really good idea. One bus-full would cover all the trails and I'm sure plenty would be up for a final slow run, get a chance to look at the trail properly for once!

The blues are definitely the more dangerous trails, they're so fast but seemingly easy and if you're tired (particularly core strength fatigue) it doesn't take much to send you flying.

They've just started resurfacing Terry's Belly, hundreds of tons of rock!

Woah, healing vibes mate.

Try and be positive, what are the odds on it happening twice?

Being serious, I've friends and family who are or were pretty seriously into climbing, long distance walking, mountaineering, running, swimming, motorcycling, MTB, skiing etc.

Still reckon MTB has the best risk/reward/still being around ratio long term.

Still reckon MTB has the best risk/reward ratio long term.

True dat.

We were having a similar discussion the other day, after the subject of mountaineering came up somehow.

For the buzz it offers at relatively low risk levels, MTB has to be unbeatable.

Thanks for sharing, hopefully you'll make a full and speedy recovery. Some good points for everyone to take note of, including BPW. I love the place and get there 3 or 4 times a year. However, I am unconvinced the culture is quite right with respect to safety. I got tuned in the hard way when the start to Viscous Valley got changed and was poorly signed; hurt a bit but I got off lightly compared to others.

It is all well and good signing the disclaimer (all about rider responsibility) and being given an emergency number on a bit of paper which is soon lost. And in any event what is the point if it goes to answer phone? There is nothing to say what BPW will do in an emergency, what the accident policy is or at least nothing I have seen or been told. For balance, I have seen the drivers getting walked wounded back down the hill during the day.

Comparing BPW to an hour up the local woods isn't really a valid comparison; as far as I can see I have a contract with BPW and they have a duty of care.
In common with other riders I assumed at the end of the day there was a sweep or similar to check everyone was down safe. I'd like to think that were the case but I have suspected not for some time. I think that is poor practice and poorer still that it is not publicly stated, I have often been on the last bus and never been told that is the case. I also find it a bit surprising they don't even check the car park at the end of the day.

I'm all in favour of self reliance and no fan of form filling, intrusive H&S nonsense but I'm not sure the balance is right. I'd loved to be wrong on that

Excuse my ignorance (I've never been to BPW) but don't you pay for the use of the trail at BPW - i.e. you'll have to pay even if you don't bring a car

Surely this changes their responsibilities compared with somewhere like Swinley or CYB where the only payment is for parking

Yes, you pay to enter the park and ride. You pay extra for the uplift service.

If you go out on any hill, whether you pay for it or not, on your mountain bike, you and your riding buddies are responsible for yourselves and should know how to get safely off the hill in the event of an accident.

There are apps for your phone that can pin point exactly where you are on an OS map that would help even the most unprepared people. Just because we are in bike parks or trail centres does not take the responsibility away from us.

We've discussed various things, may be a transponder of some sort, similar to those used at XC races with the ability to time your runs, logs you in at the gate of the trail and out at the end. With the bonus of "official timing". If the transponder isn't returned then it's not too hard to track someone down to at least one trail.

http://site.icedot.org/site/crash-sensor/

Need a phone signal of course, unless you can rig one up to a Satellite phone.

For example, on none of the info boards do they say what to do in an emergency.

That fourth photo. Is that the reapers hand? If so lucky escape. Healing vibes.

Also not wearing a FF at BPW is madness IMO, unless you're just bimbling down the trails. As said above the blues are the fastest therefore amongst the most dangerous IMO in terms of severity if you do crash. I've been loads and never needed my FF lid until last time when I came off on BlueBelle at high speed and landed on my face! I cannot tell you how glad I was to be wearing it then!

This +1

A lot of XC riders ride road as well - and so the attitude seems to be that "I don't wear a full face on the road - why should I on a smooth blue". Even just a set of goggles might have fended off the OP's black eye. I reckon the Switchblade in Open face mode + goggles might be a really good shout, if you really don't want a chinbar when riding blues.

I'd also argue that you're more likely to come off on a 120mm hardtail - these days they really just don't compare to 130mmish, long, slack full sussers in terms of predictability - and thus safety.

Two way street, riders have a responsibility, so does the Bike Park.

But was the bike OK?!?!?

Healing vibes OP!

There's details of the local A&E, telephone numbers etc on the boards, it's also on the info sheet They give out when you sign in.

They're a bit handicapped by being 'off grid' - their only on-site number is a mobile with all that goes with.

I guess no one needs to defend them, but I know from the experience that if you need help it's best to get onto 999 and they'll deal with the venue, I went down hard at Afan a couple of years ago, the rangers came to my aid but really the best they could do was offer first aid and open a gate for the ambo.

@ Nobeerinthefridge
Completely agree - we're all responsible for ourselves on the trail, be it 'natural' or a trail centre. And of course, knowing the risks, our limits and so on.

My point, or implied question, was: does the fact that BPW charge for the use of their trails mean they have some 'duty of care' over their customers?
For example, ensuring an emergency line is manned (or what's the point?) or taking reasonable steps to ensure nobody is left out on the trails once the park is closed?

Get well soon, OP.
I'm going to BPW in July for the first time. I showed this thread to the wife, thinking that she'd accept my buying a full face helmet was a good idea. Nope.
"You're not ****ing going!" was what I got. 😕
Obviously, I am still going, but what else could a 57 year old do to mitigate coming off on the blues, other than FF, knee and elbow pads?

Proactive protection is the key - look where you're going, try to adjust to the extra speed and stay relaxed, I've got that nasty habit of riding tense when I'm starting to get out of my comfort zone, before I know it my hands are griping too hard, my arms aren't flowing over the bumps and my calves are clamped to the seat - a sure fire way to disappear off the side of the trail ha ha.

Just because it's a 'special trip' doesn't mean you have to ride all the blacks to 'tick them off' they're not meant to be for everyone.

If you've not rode many uplift days be wary of getting tried, I used to crash at the end of almost every uplift day at Cwmcarn, not badly but without the tricky business of climbing and adrenalin flowing you don't always notice how tired you are until your hand falls from the grip or something.

If you don't want to splash out on a lot of protective kit you won't use elsewhere BPW will rent you some for not much money.

but what else could a 57 year old do to mitigate coming off on the blues,

Ooooft. Will keep an eye on the classifieds, I need a cheap helmet.

Sounds like they need to stick a few rock gardens in to keep us weekend warriors honest. (Never ridden there but feel the nature of the place would likely have me writing cheques my skills couldn't cash. Not saying that's what happened here btw)

Chipster, get some coaching, not expensive and well worth the money

Agreed on using the sweeper method , I was asked to do one in Whistler , in an odd way felt kind of privileged to be asked . I chose B Line , nice cruise down perfect for a mincer like me ! Empty trail nice to be of assistance . Good safety system providing non of the sweepers **** themselves !

Chipster, don't get the last bus!!

Seriously, you do get tired by the end of the day and it is easy to get caught out.

I have to say, when ride at BPW i aim to 'peak' on the last run before lunch, and not the last run of the day! Use the first 4 runs of the morning to get dialed in, then ride the hardest trail you plan to ride before lunch. Have lunch, then i tend to cruise through the afternoon, and as the day runs out, i deliberately slow down and stay well within my limits.

I see loads of people having silly offs towards the end of the day when they have either finally worked up to hitting big stuff, or they are just going very fast on the easy blues,precisely because they feel so smooth and easy.

Thanks for the answers. What time does the cafe close?
I like cake, me. 8)

As above, tiredness and lack of fitness is most often the cause. Finish early even on an uplift day. People aren't used to it. I ride their often.

I'm responsible for me. I don't shift the blame. If I come off I know who's to blame 😉

<but what else could a 57 year old do to mitigate coming off on the blues>

I'm older than that and as the posters say - ride within your limit's. Even old guys have limits, apparently LoL

I would recommend;

http://www.cyclinguk.org/courses-training/bike-first-aid-explorer-medicine-1-day-course-mtb

A group of us did it. A Sunday well spent.

I don't like riding the blues at BPW late in the day - they're superficially easy and fast, and when you're tired laying off the brakes can leave you going to fast for your fatigued body/mind to handle. The more natural reds are probably a safer option unless they're beyond your comfort zone, roots and rocks make you concentrate and slow down.

As has been asked. Bike OK?
Throttle works both ways. We live and learn.

Whilst the OP has had a nasty off and I hope he gets well soon, I don't like the way the post has been written, almost to absolve the OP of any blame.

The underlying feel of his post is that he almost trying to point the finger at BPW being responsible i.e. the trails were a mess, Im not a jumper, rolled the doubles etc etc.
I've been to BPW a few times, in the middle of winter and in summer, on hardtails and FS. There are a few sections, which if you get wrong could do some serious damage.
Its very easy to exceed YOUR limitations through adrenaline and tiredness and I suspect thats part of what happened here.
Looking at it another way, if you're out in the wilds on un-managed trails and you have a big stack, its nobody elses fault but your own.
Mountain biking is a dangerous sport, so its ultimately the riders responsibility to ride within their limits and to wear the protective gear.

He does clearly state he takes full responsibility for what happens and apportions no blame to BPW.

There is a legitimate point for discussion (nothing to do with "blame") about how the trails are checked after the last run to ensure everyone is down safely. And, by extension, if there is an incident how it is co-ordinated by BPW to ensure medics/rescuers can get to the casualty in a timely manner.

to ride within their limits

Often it's not something that's outside of your limits. I've crashed and cracked ribs at BPW on the fireroad type trail over to Terrys Belly, just riding along, 5mph, woosh, went down... broke ribs, gashed elbow and broke arm.

That accident could have happened anywhere. Would you have acted differently if it had been anywhere other than the bike park? At least you could give easy directions to the emergency services

Thanks for all the comments.

I'm not blaming BPW for my accident, far from it. What I posted was a very short highlight of the discussions that took place, and still going on when I see someone who asks "what happened?", regarding the "responsibility" of the management or not at places like BPW.

A lot of the fence sitting has been around the fact you pay to enter the park, but then you're left to your own devices. Is there a duty of care? Should there be the option of being able to walk the trails, there isn't without walking on the trail, the access for emergency vehicles, it's very limited unless you have a caterpillar tracked 360. There has been a lot of questions and no real consensus on any answers.

In all honesty I still don't know what caused me to crash. I didn't feel tired, I was riding smooth, the most comfortable I'd been all day. It probably was the sense of complacency, "it's only a blue, it's easy", plus the extra speed of not having to dodge trail debris.

The trails have certainly evolved since my previous visit, with the additions of the plus trails, I take what some of you have said that a full face helmet and some padding is the minimum. It's now not typical blue XC trails going up to full on DH blacks.

I chatted with a regular on STW and a regular at BPW, he's there 2-3 times a week. I've only been 4-5 times, but over the years BPW has become a lot harder techincally due to erosion, trail features, roots, rocks, the drop rocks at the top red with the small rocky qualifier, used to be FAR more rollable than they are now, but the surface behind has been wiped out, so they're a bit trickier.... All round, it's a harder place than 2 years back.

I like that sweeper idea but it's too neat- it'd only be a matter of time before someone went off on the wrong trail (whether intentionally or not) and a trail got left unswept, especially down the bottom where they get a bit more tangled. So it could possibly help but how many people will it help? What's the risk someone gets missed?

Likewise checking riders out, sounds simple but there are people on the hill who haven't checked in and just ride up (I think you're supposed to pay but not everyone does), there's single runners, there'll always be people who leave and forget to check out or who decide to carry on riding after the uplift ends. Same issue that races have

At the end of the day I don't think it's BPW's responsibility. Trails should be safe (for what they are- ie no unneccesary hazards and within spec and grade). Assistance should be rendered where possible. But they're providing a trail network like any other riding venue, it just happens to have a bus service, nobody assumes that Glentress or Fort William checks every rider in and out. They'll have a relationship with the emergency services for assisting extraction etc and on average it'll be a better place to smash yourself than most places.

On the subject of surface/trail condition BPW is largely built on a "low build, fast repair" basis- not the same as many UK trail centres which tend to invest a huge amount in the build for maximum resiliance and consistency, and minimum maintenance. That's a swings and roundabouts thing, it meant they could get a lot of trails built in a relatively short time but they have high maintenance and I think they're planning to redo the high traffic trails over time to bring them up a bit. But it also means stuff gets fixed and inspected more so it's not all negative. And for anything but a flow trail it makes for more interesting trails.

zilog6128 - Member

Also not wearing a FF at BPW is madness IMO

It's easier riding than my everyday riding, nothing other than the big jumps that makes me think of wearing anything but my trail riding kit tbh. Yes it's fast in places but the pentlands are fast in places, I don't wear a fullface there either.

I chatted with a regular on STW and a regular at BPW, he's there 2-3 times a week. I've only been 4-5 times, but over the years BPW has become a lot harder techincally due to erosion, trail features, roots, rocks, the drop rocks at the top red with the small rocky qualifier, used to be FAR more rollable than they are now, but the surface behind has been wiped out, so they're a bit trickier.... All round, it's a harder place than 2 years back.

Now I'm tempted to go back, can't be doing with smooth trails.

Heal fast OP, the blues can catch you out, last run of the day x relaxing a bit = getting kicked off the front, happened to two of our group last trip.

As for all this talk of riding within your comfort zone, sod that! 😆

Was this on Weds the 19th of April?

Was there with my missus and noticed that sixtapod opened halfway through the day.

Also, saw your (if it was you) ambulance arrive just as we were getting ready to leave. Healing vibes chap!

I think places like BPW allow you to ride faster than you would on more natural stuff and the penalty when things go rubber side up are therefore much greater. A FF helmet and body armor do make a big difference (20/20 hindsight is great though for that...).

I ride the blacks, they are outside my comfort zone. But it's the fast blues I'm more wary of having a big accident on. The reds are where I'm most comfortable and having fun.

In terms of the sweeper suggestions. I was there a week or so ago having a mellow day with less gnarcore riding companions but jumped on the last uplift on my own to have a run down my favorite Vicious valley and the new black Escort. Maybe not the best idea for last run of the day but I was feeling pretty fresh having had a mellow day. I was very conscious of the fact that I was on the last bus (only with about 6 others) so no one would be following me down, and I was riding on my own. Though I knew my friends would raise the alarm (they knew what trails I was doing) if I didn't turn up back at the bottom after a while. I didn't expect BPW to be responsible for me or do a sweep. I just looked at it the same as I would do riding anywhere else, made the risk assessment as I would anywhere, and then decided to take the risk. Thankfully I didn't come off and have to wait for someone to raise the alarm and them find me. Just call me irresponsible and reckless.

SammyC

Yes that was me.

Just call me irresponsible and reckless.

You'll need to shorten it a bit, make it a bit more catchy. 8)

This thread is strengthening my desire to make the 8 hour drive down to the valleys this year...

As for all this talk of riding within your comfort zone, sod that!

Only when you're tired! Ok, maybe not then too. But you know what I mean - if I'm in a mincing mood I can find some bits of the reds intimidating though they're all fine when I'm going for it. When I'm tired I feel safer on the more tech and less jumpy reds and blacks than on the flowy blues and reds.

When I was there a month ago I decided it would be a good idea to start with an uninterrupted run top to bottom on some blacks to wake me up and make me riding properly! Dai Hard into Coal Not Dole into Deep Navigation. I was the first off the first bus and back to the bottom before most people realised the uplift had started. Gnarlier than I remembered!

Were you the guys trying to get on the uplift with the adhoc lift passes? I think your friend had some fat bike "creation" with Mary bars and a bell. There was also a chap with an eBike Scott but who had taken the battery off?

If that was you I think my Mrs and I were chatting to you about how busy the buses were getting.

I think your friend had some fat bike "creation" with Mary bars and a bell. There was also a chap with an eBike Scott but who had taken the battery off?

[img] [/img]

If you can't accept the risks then you don't ride there/anywhere. You even have to sign a disclaimer (not sure how well that will hold up).

It's the same as any other place we ride bikes, there's no guarantee that you will be found if injured, so why do BPW need to take on this additional responsibility other than that you pay a small amount to ride there?

You have to accept responsibility, take precautions and minimise the risks as much as you feel able to. You weren't riding alone either so you had already minimised that risk.

BPW did the last rider sweep when they opened. I guess the actual practicality proved too difficult and opened a potential can of worms wrt liability.

Clearly this crash has scared you so hope you feel better soon and get back on the bike.

Which bit?! 😀

The former was, special. The latter was fair enough as it sounded like he had some problem with his leg (but had taken the battery off as it was not needed on uplift).

just call me irresponsible and reckless.

You'll need to shorten it a bit, make it a bit more catchy.

I'll get my marketing team on it forthwith 🙂

Looks like a pretty serious off so I hope you heal up okay.

On a serious note though, I would say that the risk assessment/mitigation here from the rider needs as much adjustment as the venue.

Judging from the photo of your helmet you could probably go with upgrading your riding gear to be more inkeeping with the style of trail at BPW.

Absolute minimum should be a trail style helmet, knee and elbow pads.

I personally use a full face, elbow/knees and then a 7iDP 'flex suit' and padded shorts.

Okay you might only ride trails like BPW 10% of the time, but that's 10% too much risk of getting seriously injured by being under protected for my liking!

Just to reiterate, this isn't a criticism of your approach to riding/protection. Just an observation and suggestion for the future. 🙂

Don't whatever you do go on the Gondola at Nevis range expecting the red to be just that...

Lost count of the amount of trail centre super heroes I've seen walking down there!.

Before thinking body armour is the be all and end all to not getting hurt. It's unlikely to stop you breaking limbs, collarbones etc etc.

Good at preventing lacerations. Additional pain if you break something.

I have to say, when ride at BPW i aim to 'peak' on the last run before lunch, and not the last run of the day! Use the first 4 runs of the morning to get dialed in, then ride the hardest trail you plan to ride before lunch. Have lunch, then i tend to cruise through the afternoon, and as the day runs out, i deliberately slow down and stay well within my limits.

I work to exactly this principle now, first day I went there I started off on blues, then red and finally finished on Enter the Dragon (black) and regretted is massively.

Now I just do a nice run to warm up, and then straight in with whatever I 'want' to ride until lunch.

Then later in the day I ride what I feel is sensible given my energy levels in the afternoon.

In the context of the above, i generally call it a day at lunch. May be a waste in some peoples eyes but IMO when the tiredness kicks in, it's only ever going to end one way !

Half day? bugger that, just get a bit fitter/stronger. 8 runs of the red at Nevis isn't far off about 2 hours descending all in, yes I'm tired at the end, but it's techy enough to keep you focused.

I'm off to Antur on Saturday and haven't ridden my FS for about 4 months. Expect a similar thread when I get out of hospital.

First time I went to Antur I came off on my "one last run" in the little rock garden in the woods at the end (after 16 previous successful passes). The next time I went this was on my mind and I came off there again on my first run.

Nobeerinthefridge - Member

Half day? bugger that, just get a bit fitter/stronger. 8 runs of the red at Nevis isn't far off about 2 hours descending all in, yes I'm tired at the end, but it's techy enough to keep you focused.

I think as you'll see from Zwift/XC racing thread, my fitness isn't too bad. It's more mental fatigue i guess than physical. BPW for me is HARD, proper hard. On the limit of skills, speeds, ability etc, whether it's Blues, Reds or the very rare black, i'm still pushing my limits, boundaries and skills all the time. So after a morning riding, i'm drained. Sure i could go out and ride 30km nice XC, so i'm not knackered. But the brain is fried. At the end of the day, it's one of the least expensive activities i do in this context, it's £30, so i'm missing out on about £12 worth. If i ride my KTM at Silverstone, the tracktime alone is £159...

Fair enough, I wouldn't have seen that as Zwift/XC/KTM ain't my thang I'm afraid.

Nobeerinthefridge - Member

Don't whatever you do go on the Gondola at Nevis range expecting the red to be just that...

Lost count of the amount of trail centre super heroes I've seen walking down there!.

TBH this is where risk assessment really goes wrong- Nevis Red/Red Giant's always been misgraded, I think purely to attract more riders. People say "it's a downhill red" but the sign says "designed for cross country mountain bikers"... Harder than most UK blacks and high consequence to boot, that's asking for trouble. Word's got around more now but I went up for the opening day when we'd all read about this "lift assisted cross country trail" and it was just [i]carnage[/i].

I think as you'll see from Zwift/XC racing thread, my fitness isn't too bad.

Different sort of fitness, that's why DHers train differently to XC riders! Strength endurance, particularly through the core and upper body, is what you need.

Different sort of fitness, that's why DHers train differently to XC riders! Strength endurance, particularly through the core and upper body, is what you need.

Totally get your point... was more a response to his comment that clearly i was unfit, rather than a specific type of fitness.

I see your point about risk and agree to a point but surely not many people would ride BPW on their own? If you get to the bottom and your mate doesn't arrive in a reasonable time then you go and look for them. You would also call emergency services if needed.

Edit - Forgot to say, get well soon.

I ride on my own at BPW and Antur. Met loads of others that were doing too.

hooli - Member

I see your point about risk and agree to a point but surely not many people would ride BPW on their own?

Why not? I mean, uplifts are better in a group because of the waiting times etc but that's the only difference between it and any other ride.