atlaz – Member

So, given the legal requirement for him to be present in Sweden, how do the people who say he should go to Ecuador suggest the rape charge

What rape charge?

Okay, the questioning the Swedish would like him for in relation to the two counts of sexual assault, one of rape and one of unlawful coercion if we’re going to insist on precision.

I’m not sure exactly what the “‘Pro Assange’ rhetoric” is, but presumably he trusts neither the British or Swedish systems, hence why he is in Ecuador (or at least, in their embassy).

To clarrify. There has been a lot of posts about the only reason for him to go to Sweden is so that he can be sent to the US more easily and that the US are behind, essentially, ‘fake’ accusations.

It would appear that it is easier for the US to extradite from the UK than Sweden so why go to the hassle?

The level of proof the US are required to present to a UK judge is quite minimal. If I understand correctly it is significantly less than would be required for a UK criminal prosecution.

rather than asking that perhaps we should ask why the US govt is being silent. Does anyone actually believe they dont want him in the US?
It is possible , given the Swedish have done renditions on their soil, that they dont agree that the UK is the best choice?
The fact they are saying nothing only fuels the suspicion.
What pleader said in reply to Z-11 as well.

I think everyone agrees he should go there and the only way this seems likely is if Sweden and the US state publicly ad legally binding that he he wont be extradited to the US. I would ask why neither has done this as it would remove Assanges worries/excuses as you prefer.

the only way this seems likely is if Sweden and the US state publicly ad legally binding that he he wont be extradited to the US

Really? He can’t stay in the embassy forever. The most likely outcome is that he’s lifted by the met as soon as he leaves and put on a stockholm-bound plane. Then whatever happens, happens.

The most likely outcome is that he’s lifted by the met as soon as he leaves and put on a stockholm-bound plane.

I agree….this seems almost inevetable. Sounds like there is going to be a statement from him “outside of the embassy” – I assume that this will be him giving himself up.

To clarrify. There has been a lot of posts about the only reason for him to go to Sweden is so that he can be sent to the US more easily and that the US are behind, essentially, ‘fake’ accusations.

It would appear that it is easier for the US to extradite from the UK than Sweden so why go to the hassle?

Oh right. Maybe the Assange supporters think the plan is to charge him for rape in order to discredit him, so there’s less public sympathy when he is eventually extradited? I guess if he was found guilty and sat in a Swedish jail for a few years, things might die down a bit as well?

Also, they could argue that having him in custody would probably make things easier? If they’d started US extradition hearings here he would presumably have been off to the Ecuadorian embassy much earlier, whereas perhaps his supporters could argue that the authorities thought he wouldn’t feel so threatened by extradition to Sweden, and that they could get him on the charges there, then once he’s safely in prison, begin the US extradition proceedings? I don’t know, too many conspiracy theories on both sides.

Personally I think that he should get a guarantee from Sweden that he will be extradited, charged and tried on the rape and/or related offences, serve his punishment (if any), and then be allowed to return to Australia/Britain*/country of his choice.

*Not sure if we would typically grant entry to an Australian citizen convicted of rape in Sweden. If we wouldn’t normally, then we shouldn’t in the case of him being found guilty either.

Is there any particular reason why the States would want him anyway?

Umm, that whole wikileaks thing maybe.

Umm, that whole wikileaks thing maybe.

Yes – and they’ve got Manning. It’s debatable whether Assange did anything illegal in the States (unlike Manning), and it’s not like he might have any useful information which they could get by waterboarding him.

Perhaps they might like to have a go at prosecuting him for something eventually, but I can’t see why they’d bother leaning on the UK and Sweden as part of some secret plot to get him to the US. Especially when they could just ask us for him and we’d hand him over.

Ben why do the US continue to refuse to comment on what they intend to do then? It is not credible to suggest the US dont want him the only thing worth debating is how they intend to get him.

He can’t stay in the embassy forever. The most likely outcome is that he’s lifted by the met as soon as he leaves and put on a stockholm-bound plane.

well he will die one day but why not ?
Pretty sure it was clear i was referring to the clauses required to get him to freely go to Sweden

Ah, but the americans are sadistic, bloodthirsty, malevolent b******s you see.

Ah, but the americans are sadistic, bloodthirsty, malevolent b******s you see.

Some of us are, yes – not all of us 🙂

Still, it’s got everyone talking about Assange again after it had all gone quiet, so I guess he’s happy.

Ah I was mainly referring to the authorities/agencies/organisations, not the people.

You think he’s happy to be holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy, facing extradition to Sweden to face rape charges and potentially a long prison sentence, with the added possibility of extradition/rendition to the US and a death sentence?

I know he’s hardly the beacon of truth that some make him out to be, but I think even his desire for self publicising must have a limit, and its probably someway short of that.

perhaps he does not want to go back to Sweden because they could send back to Australia (for whatever reason). Then he nay be venerable to be got hold of by the US.

Is there any particular reason why the States would want him anyway?…/ /…It’s debatable whether Assange did anything illegal in the States

Well a high profile politician labelled him a terrorist and the USA seem to have novel approaches to dealing with them, so yeah in his shoes I’d be worried.

(I’ve heard of her so must be reasonably high profile, joe biden who I haven’t heard of but is “in the obama administration” also likened assange to a high tech terrorist)

Sarah Palin and Joe Biden? If that’s the best evidence there is that the States wants to get their hands on him, I think he’s safe 🙂

What amuses me is the logic, which seems to go like this:

The States is nasty and likes putting people in secret prisons etc.
The States hasn’t said that they want Assange.
So they must be saying it in secret to Sweden.
Aren’t the States nasty for leaning on Sweden?

No-one seems to seriously consider the possibility that the States finds Assange annoying, but not worth getting really worked up over. Probably not a good idea for him to transit through La Guardia, but too much effort and hassle to actually try to get hold of him.

some of this has worked in assanges favour and theres no doubt hes a **** with a massive ego

but without the publicity that surrounds him its harder to have him renditioned off to some dodgy prison of questionable legality, paranoid? possibly but i think assange probably is and after all your not paranoid if they really are after you…

personally i think it would be better if he went to sweden and faced the charges he
ecuador shouldnt have granted him assylum but its done and britain arresting him makes a mockery of teh assylum system

wikileaks has been a force for good, exposing corruption and hypocrasy on all sides of the war on terror, the assange saga seems to be just as fuct up

No-one seems to seriously consider the possibility that the States finds Assange annoying, but not worth getting really worked up over.

Mainly because it is preposterous.
Is that why they have a special commission on him that wont say what they intend to do? They say they wont be drawn on what they intend to do, they have high profile politicians calling for his death and trial as a terrorist or for treason- he is not even American
Because the USA has not said anything one way or the other we just look at how they have treated others and draw a conclusion.
If you think they dont want him and have no interest you will be in a very small group of people perhaps measurable in single figures

I didn’t say they don’t want him – but if they do then why lean on Sweden to get him instead of just asking us for him? Much easier to extradite from the UK to the US than from Sweden to the US.

They seem to disagree despite many saying this

The States is nasty and likes putting people in secret prisons etc.

Yeah…. I think that you have highlighted (in a slightly cavalier way)exactly the problem – as a previous post did: The US government has been kidnapping and torturing foreign nationals as it sees fit for the past 10 years. Aided (it seems) by the UK and Swedish governments.

Is it any surprise that people may be edging towards paranoid?

I like America. And Americans.

Sarah Palin and Joe Biden? If that’s the best evidence there is that the States wants to get their hands on him, I think he’s safe

Joe Biden – the Vice President of the country Joe Biden?

I like America. And Americans.

Yes, we know. Your prejudice clouds your judgement on these matters. 😉

Much easier to extradite from the UK to the US than from Sweden to the US.

Maybe they want to avoid this due to the recent negative publicity of the UK-US extradition arrangement?

It is possible , given the Swedish have done renditions on their soil, that they dont agree that the UK is the best choice?

Why make it complicated? Regardless of whether Sweden have previously extradited or not it’s a lot easier for the US to do it from the UK. They’ve had plenty of time (over two years?) to say ‘first dibs’ and haven’t. If they had, I suspect that he would be there already.

If you’re going to do wet work, you do it the simplest, quickest method. Multilayered conspiracies are for the movies.

So why have the US not done it?
Again to repeat it no one actually thinks they dont want him so there has to be a reason hence the suspicion they think it will be easier to do it from Sweden than here.
you can repeat that it would be easier here but they dont agree or they would have tried.

mk1fan – Member
If you’re going to do wet work, you do it the simplest, quickest method. Multilayered conspiracies are for the movies.

Unless you’re incompetent and/or desperate:

Operation Flex

The FBI refused to comment on This American Life’s story: it is currently being sued by members of the mosque, with Craig Monteilh as the star witness against his former employers. But with extensive interviews with members of the mosque and a fascinatingly candid Craig Monteilh himself, the programme pieces together the sordid tale of the risible Operation Flex.

Last year, the Associated Press won the Pulitzer Prize for investigative reporting, after uncovering a massive secret NYPD spying operation covering virtually all of the city’s Muslim communities, despite having no evidence of terrorist activity.

Whether it’s through infiltration of mosques by the FBI or police spies in cafes or meeting spaces, it’s no wonder that so many American Muslim leaders are warning that US law enforcement’s approach is sowing a corrosive fear and distrust amongst their communities.

Yeah, this Joe Biden – he’s not regarded as a big thinker, really.

Maybe they want to avoid this due to the recent negative publicity of the UK-US extradition arrangement?

That is a possibility.