https://cyclinguphill.com/safe-cycling-stats-cycle-casualties/

^^^^ YAWN ^^^^

So that’s 88 fatality’s per billion kilometres in 2008, wow risky stuff.

Or 1868 casualties.

See Bustaspoke above.

A couple of my mates have the XJR1300,it’s a heavy piece of kit,probably heavier than a Harley!

I dont think its the weight per-se that riders find hard work but the seat height – they weigh about 225Kgs ‘wet’ about 10% more than my old CBR600 F4i which was a LOT lighter than the pig-iron 500 I did my test on.

A quick look says the Sporter 883 which I think it one of the smaller ones, it’s not one of the massive chrome things anyway is 265Kgs.

I’w waaaay out of touch, but I seem to recall riders of those bike naked Jap bikes taking anout lowering kits to make them more usable, but it effected their already ‘not great’ peg clearance.

Used to own a tricked out Buell…

HD – they are okay but more lifestyle than anything else.  It does seem to be the domain of bankers/ accountants having a mid-life crisis… and real Hells Angels

P Jay I get the seat height reference,I’m only 5’6 & one of my bikes is a XT600,it’s tall much taller than a XJR13 but compared to a large capacity road bike it’s really light.

In edukators defence a motorbike can cover a lot more miles than a push bike so the risk is actually even more than the difference of 1035 vs 1885 per billion would suggest.

Having said that, Swinley probably kills more people per mile and is a pretty benign trail center, so unless he plans to give up mountain biking he should just stop trolling.

And let’s be honest here, harleys aren’t the crotch rockets littering the sides of snakes pass and the cat and fiddle.

Don’t forget your donor cards when you’re out on your bikes guys. I was driving a Polish relative around yesterday and as a peg-grinding Harley rider disappeared around a bend he quipped “kidney donor”.

I’ll notify my brother of your concern as to his welfare, I’m sure he’ll take it to heart and stop riding his bike immediately, as will his wife, he’s only been riding for 38 years, and must be totally unaware of any dangers implicit in his activities.

Actually, he’s fully aware of the dangers, probably more than you are, Edukator, having had a very serious accident some years ago that he was lucky to survive, only the fact that his now wife was riding right behind him (she was an anesthetist at Bristol RUH at the time, and gave the crash team full details), and Wiltshire has a superb air ambulance team. He still rides, he has no recollection of the accident. He was also only doing around 20 mph at the time, he clipped the rear wing of a slow-moving vehicle with his knee as he went to overtake, and toppled over, then was hit by an uninsured driver going in the opposite direction.

An accident can occur at any time, under a whole range of circumstances, not all involve excessive speed.

By the way, what are the figures for cycle fatalities per head of population?

I’ve just switched and brought the best bike I’ve ever had, a Triumph Street Scrambler, but having been a mid life bell end for some years, I rode a few Harleys and in general they are a bit agricultural but as you get older that’s what you need, to slow you down, I’m back to being a nightmare on this Triumph and every time I take it out I wonder if this is the time I’m going to **** it, it’s difficult not being a **** on a bike, but Harleys do take the twerpyness out of your riding.

And they are one of life’s great sounds, nothing else sounds like a Harley with a stage three and straight through pipes, except maybe a Spitfire they sound cool as well, and there is no greater joy than hearing all the car and shop burglar alarms going off because of the vibration as you chug past.

They also have a sense of presence on the road that helps to prevent you being what you often are, invisible to the school runners in their chelsea tractors, you don’t get as many drivers taking you out at roundabouts or pulling out in front of you, possibly because of the size possibly because of the noise.

Time was Sportsters were just junk, but they’ve improved recently, my last bike was a Dyna Lowrider, my chum has a V Rod, and a few of my mates are gagging for one called an Outbreak but it’s pricey. Buy an old Evo engined Dyna, it’ll cost around five grand run it for a year and you’ll still get five back for it, I’ve not had a lot of issues with the Evo engine, but I do hear these modern electrics systems can be a pain, which was the reason I went for the Triumph over the 48 this time, I don’t like all that key fob nonsense.

Do it though, don’t listen to the doubters, everyone should ride a Harley for a while at least once in their lives, if only to appreciate a bike like mine.. 😉

There is a “Hells Angels” Harley club out here and so you see a few of them out and about.

Unfortunately, they do give off a huge whiff of desperate mid-life crisis and look a bit sad really either with a group or on their own.

Sorry.

On the other hand, riding around on something like the Triumphs or Nortons above seems completely different to me.

I have no real interest in bikes, and I’m sure I’m totally wrong, but that’s how it all comes across to me!

ps.  If you have a family then it’s totally irresponsible to ride a bike for leisure.  Harsh but true – sorry again if that offends anyone!

If I was going to buy a motorcycle right now as a mid life treat (and if my wife asks I am definitely not) it would be a Retro Kawasaki z900

https://goo.gl/images/VcmY5c

ps.  If you have a family then it’s totally irresponsible to ride a bike for leisure.  Harsh but true – sorry again if that offends anyone!

Or ride a horse, smoke, drink alcohol, ingest secondary smoke, fall over, have sex or go down stairs

Or ride a horse, smoke, drink alcohol, ingest secondary smoke, fall over, have sex or go down stairs

Smoking, yes, you’re shortening your life with your family for a paper tube of burning leaves.

The others are all about risk and whether it’s justified.  Riding a motorbike means you are 40 times more likely to be killed in an accident on the road.  This is not the same as having sex, going down stairs, drinking a reasonable level of alcohol or time travelling back to the 1990s to ingest secondary smoke.

Some of these are far worse than the others – surely you can see the nuance of this?

“I don’t see what the problem is with a crack cocaine habit because people die in the bath.  Do you want me to never have a bath ever again, do you, well do you?”

Funnily enough my other half loves to ride horses and has always owned a horse.  We have 1 toddler and another on the way and whilst she still rides, she wouldn’t ride her last horse, a massive thoroughbred, because of the potential danger and certainly wouldn’t compete.  She’s got a few years hacking around for now because it really is dangerous.  We’re not risk averse, we climb, we ride bikes, we’ve self guided a three week trek through the Himalayas, but with a family I wouldn’t do certain things because you can be easily seriously hurt or killed without doing anything wrong.

Riding a motorbike is one of these things.

FFS Typical STW. OP Asks a question about riding a Harley Davidson & the post goes off on a tangent about road safety…

cba’ed

Some of these are far worse than the others – surely you can see the nuance of this?

You’re perceiving certain things as more risky than others, that’s a nuance you’re missing too. Taking horse riding as an example (because I’d assume that was riskier than motorbikes), h<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>orse eventing more dangerous than motorcycle racing.  I couldn’t find anything on recreation but I was surprised enough that anything was riskier than bike racing! You’ll probably (and possibly rightly) dismiss it as unrepresentative, but then so is owning a Harley vs doing the TT.</span>

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/33/1/46.full.pdf</span&gt;

What with having dependents I’m not sure I’d take the risk of being a boring, calculated, risk averse shoe gazer, but there you go..

BTW the last bike I rode on the road was a ’26 AJS big port with no lights or dials, brakes that won’t even hold it on a slope and tyres no wider than those on my mtb. I **** loved I did!

There is a “Hells Angels” Harley club out here and so you see a few of them out and about.

Big groups of Harley riders in the UK  tend to be H.O.G.

Patch clubs in the UK tend to have a real mix of bikes, Old school, ultra high mileage jap stuff predominates. It used to be old Kwaks and big Suzuki fours, but XJ’s are very popular these days.

Modern  non Sportster HD’s tend to be ridden by IT consultants and those in the legal profession.

IM ( limited ) E,  no one  in any of the northern patch clubs would be seen on a newish HD. It’s not really the done thing.

Bloke at work is in a Welsh patch club. He’s got a Harley and a Pan.

(make of that what you will)

I had a CVO Springer for a year and a bit. It was reliable enough but was uncomfy and some of the fixings etc were pretty cheap and rusted at the slightest whisper of rain. If you ride for an hour, you have to clean it for two.

I found the forward feet riding position hurt the small of your back after a couple of hours riding as you couldn’t adjust position.

I think you’ve got to get Harleys and the whole Harley scene.  I didn’t.

Far better bikes out there

Bloke at work is in a Welsh patch club. He’s got a Harley and a Pan.

Fair do’s. It’s been a while.

Fair do’s. It’s been a while.

I don’t think I was contradicting you TBH; both are fairly ratty. If anything it proves your point; I couldn’t see him on anything fancy chrome and custom paintjobby, that’s for sure.

No worries.

🙂

The demographic of patch clubs seems to have changed massively over the past few years. The impoverished, simplistic man/child cliché seems to have disappeared, overtaken by a much more ruthless, business orientated type of individual.

Never been a fan, hate all that stuff but maintained friendly relations back in the old days – you had to if you attended certain rallies or were a non member in very active areas. Always a big split up here between two well known organisations, with the real power being the third one that hardly anyone had heard of.

And not ‘Hell’s Angels’. That was more of  a Midlands thing, although they did  excommunicate some people and send them up here as a punishment, where they’d be picked of at leisure by the locals…..

If I was going to buy a motorcycle right now as a mid life treat (and if my wife asks I am definitely not) it would be a Retro Kawasaki z900

https://goo.gl/images/VcmY5c

I had an original 1974 Z900 for a few years. Absolutely gorgeous bike. Not sure what I think about those new ones but they do look nice.

Nice to see there are so many motorbikerists on stw.  🙂

I’ve had three Harley’s (well two, and a Buell). Enjoyed them all in their own way, no reliability issues with the Harley’s (a late 80s 1200 sportster and a 2007 dyna), but the Buell used to vibrate itself to pieces on a weekly basis – exhaust brackets used to fracture constantly, and it managed to fracture the main engine mount whilst on the motorway, which was character building. What I don’t like about Harley’s is that they sound crappy from stock and need different pipes / stage one tuning (this is known as ‘Harley tax’, and the fact you have to spend a further grand or so after already shelling out between ten to twenty grand, dependant on model, on a new bike, is just taking the p**s). The lights are appalling, I mean really, really bad. An LED conversion will cost about four to five hundred quid from Harley, though you can get Chinese knock offs from EBay if you’re willing to take the risk. Finally, the brakes. Seriously, I’ve had mountain bikes with better brakes. A twin piston calliper with a single front disc is dangerous on such a big, heavy motorbike, there’s nothing else to say. When it was new bike time earlier this year, I thought long and hard, for all of maybe ten seconds, and paid a deposit on a bike I’d only seen shots of on the internet. I took delivery of it in April, and I have to say, it’s the best bike I’ve ever owned. It’s the Kawasaki Z900RS, in the 70s Z1 colour scheme (metal flake brown and orange!), and at the price (around ten grand), I don’t give a monkeys that it won’t hold its value as much as a Harley. Bikes, after all, are for riding, not for investing money in.

I’ve got a Fat Bob, bought last year as the next step in my slow decline from sports bikes.  I first rode an HD over a decade ago and said at the time I would have one when I could afford it.

I loved the look of some of the special sportster models, the forty-eight in particular. But found them to be too small.

The Dyna’s come with a real engine and are also physically bigger.  Mine came with some nice V&H pipes, a screen, and sissy bar – along with having the right control configuration I wanted.

The Dyna’s and soft tails seem to hold their value even better than the sportsters too.

Yes they ride differently, but after 3000m I’m sure you’ll realise that you can still hustle them around at illegal speeds.  The difference is that unlike a modern sports bike, it goes round corners because you are making it – not through telepathy!  This makes for a much more engaging ride.

I ride mine with an open face helmet, which limits comfortable speed to 70 for short stints, but it chugs away at 60 in top gear in absolute comfort and relatively low noise.

The advice I received when looking was to find the bike that had the state of tune and controls where you want them, then change bars, seats etc to get the look you want.  Works out cheaper than buying the look and changing the other bits and it seems to be HDs marketing ploy to sell bikes intentionally under specified to guarantee the upgrade catalogue sales!

DO IT – YOU’LL LOVE IT!

The more I read this thread, the more I think my plan to hire a HD this autumn in USA is misguided.

Ill be riding from Tucson to San Francisco and normally ride a BMW S1000XR. I’m beginning to think that a HD, whilst looking the part for an American adventure, might just annoy me.

Obviously, I won’t be able to hire another XR. Looks like a GS?

Does this mean I need to get a stick-on beard??

rachel

The more I read this thread, the more I think my plan to hire a HD this autumn in USA is misguided.

Just think of it as hiring  an old landrover defender to drive from  Carlisle to Malaga and back 🙂

Allthegear – you’d be ok on a Harley, they’re made for the American market anyway (not much in the way of twisty roads, so the handling and brakes shouldn’t be too much of an issue). They are comfy, and they certainly look the part, I’d personally go for it. You can borrow my beard if you like, I’m sure you’d look a treat!

The more I read this thread, the more I think my plan to hire a HD this autumn in USA is misguided.

I think that that going to the States for a motorcycle road trip and hiring anything BUT a Harley would be a MASSIVE wasted opportunity. It’s their home environment; they definitely work there. It’s our crowded isle that I’m not sure about.

Harleys are ace. They are just not competing with the European idea of what a motorbike should be. Look at (almost) all of the ‘Harleys are crap; try one of these’ suggestions; all gorgeous, flickable, retro cafe racery things. Absolutely lovely bikes, but completely different in purpose and execution to say, a Road King or a Heritage Softail, with its low seat, even lower centre of gravity, massive, lazy engine with waves of torque complemented by an absolutely unique and iconic soundtrack, designed to cruise all day in comfort and in a relaxed fashion, not attack the traffic and carve up the twisties. Nothing wrong with either of those things, I’ve currently got a SuperDuke, and it’s awesome. But just coz a Harley doesn’t do those things well, doesn’t mean it’s shite. It just means it’s not designed to.

The reason I started this thread was to see if people actually enjoy owning Harleys in the UK. It seems that they can, and it also seems that a lot of people are cross that they aren’t sports bikes 😘 I’m completely cool with that, but I haven’t decided if I’m cool with the amount of cleaning that I may be committing myself to should I get one. We’ll see. Thanks all!

I really would love a HD road trip in the US.. pick it up from New York and head to my old home in Florida..

That would be awesome.

I didn’t know you could hire bikes, I must do a bit of googling.. 🤪

A question for those guys that have ridden in the USA, certainly the South States, is it really accepted to ride in t-shirts/jeans/boots and either helmet/no helmet and is it feasible to do so?

Thinking it all looks great on TV adverts, but the reality might be completely different..

I’ve spent time in Southern Spain where it’s acceptable to ride in jeans and t-shirts and trainers (helmet obvz) on R1’s doing silly speeds in town and knees grinding in the hills.. I didn’t see much evidence of spills and gravel rash, though do accept it’s probably hidden..

It’s certainly the norm. I did most of my 3000 miles in jeans, tshirt and occasionally leather jacket. Mostly helmeted (small, open face one) except in Az where it’s not required, so I HAD to try that. Must admit, it was lovely, I can totally see why helmet laws are resisted.

So, yeah, perfectly normal. Sensible? That’s your call.

Even the bike cops in Cali don’t appear to wear protective gear except helmets and gloves.

It’s changed a lot in the states re helmets, like here the law forced the wind from our hair, here’s a map, been out today in T shirt shorts & sandals, very liberating, there are times I wish we could still ride without helmets, but like everything else the world just wants to wrap us in cotton wool.

Not read all this, but I reckon the OP will be grand as long as he only travels in a straight line at a fairly sedentary pace

Cheers chaps..

Going to plan a trip..

I’ll come straight out and say I’ve never ridden one but my neighbour has a custom Harley bobber and it’s frickin lovely. Not sure what the stock model was but it set him back £18000 then he spent another 6 on the custom upgrades and the result is frankly stunning. Jet black 1800cc beast with upside down modern forks and real brakes mini apes etc. I asked him if the electrics have failed yet and does it actually ride and he claims its spot on…. and I want one.

I swung my leg over a friend’s 67 plates Triumph Bobber and BMW R1200GS (along with 4 or 5 others, and the push bike collection – not envious in the slightest!). I know next to nothing about bikes but am typical middle aged man curious. I’d take either of them over a Harley I think. In a perfect world the BMW would be ideal but in reality I would not do enough of the type of trips to justify it and a day tripper like the bobber would do me fine.