do a search on autotrader across the country for similar cars with same age/milage. This will tell you if it is overpriced or not (autotrader's algoritm can be a bit off). If it is, phone the dealer and ask about their pricing - they might be very firm, they might be happy to move.

Also keep in mind Autotrader does not know about things like brakes, tyres etc. The Golf I bought was classed as overpriced but had new discs all round and decent tyres. I have bought cars before and not checked the discs and needed new ones shortly afterward thus negating any perceived saving..

Mine also came with full roof bars fitted and a dog cage thing - both of which I needed and would have had to buy.

do a search on autotrader across the country for similar cars with same age/milage.

And don't forget engine and spec too - you need to be sure you are comparing similar/identical specifications. Other than that, it is sound advice.

Just have a conversation with the dealer about what you're after and what you're prepared to pay. Regardless of what many internet Arthur Daley's would have you believe there are no 'tricks', and if there are, the dealer will be much, much better at them than you.

Also, like in any of these 'haggle' situations, regardless of what the Autotrader price (algorithm or search) is, remember that the only magic target price that you're trying to reach is the one you're happy paying. Others may not be happy unless they got it for less, others again may have happily paid more.

The only question that matters is whether you are happy to pay whatever price you and the dealer land on (and, obviously, the Autotrader price serves as a useful guide that you're not getting shafted). If you are, great, if you're not, walk away.

I'm looking for a car myself and I would take the Autotrader price guide with a pinch of salt. It seems to just combine model year and mileage. I'm much more interested in service history, cosmetic damage and it's nice to see a matching set of decent tyres. Don't forget to check the MOT history to see if something has been looked after- https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk /">www.check-mot.service.gov.uk

I went to see a Fabia estate last weekend. It was immaculate on top but when I looked underneath the whole thing was covered in mud. The rear bumper was packed with dry soil as if it had been rallied around in a field. I know people are ordering cars online these days but I wouldn't dare. Go there and have a poke around it.

We're trying to keep our options open. I just sold a van so we've got no way to carry bikes or passengers. I want a break from vans so was obviously looking at Octavia's. My mrs. really wants a Yeti. I thought we had a healthy budget but I've realised prices have gone up across the board just like with every other product on the market.

I'm not sure how accurate the Autotrader "Good Price" algorithm is.

Another thing Autotrader doesn't factor in as the "admin" fee. Most big chains charge you a couple of hundred pounds to sell you the car.

They don't add it to the "sticker" price because it makes the cars look more expensive on the online search.

I was a bit wary about buying car from dealer as well - having had horrific experience with Arnold Shark in Inverness. Found the car we wanted but was 150 miles away - chatted on phone, put down small deposit, train down to Perth, collected from station by garage handyman.

Really, it went smoothly - don't know if it was vastly overpriced, but it was the pretty exact match of the car we wanted and needed, seems to be in good shape several years later. The salesman was a straight forward guy, didn't bat a n eyelid when I said I'd get the car checked out when got home, in fact he encouraged it, sourced some touch up paint for a stone chip - really was no problem at all.

Dealers will universally expect to be knocked down £1500 on their listed price. Its why I always get that much PX on my knackered cars. This was also confirmed by a colleague that used to work in the business and pretty much everyone I've talked to that have bought cars 2nd hand from dealers.

Dealers will universally expect to be knocked down £1500 on their listed price.

Reckon I could get that much off this one?

www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106173908233

@onzadog got a link?

Knock down probably depends on the sticker price. My last dealer purchase was £7k region with just under £1k knockdown for the PX. Now whilst we could possibly have sold for £1k private, MOT was due and a fair size bill was expected, so...

Dealers will universally expect to be knocked down £1500 on their listed price.

Have you bought many cars recently! 🙂

IME they have very much hardened their stance on this, especially now it's a seller market.

...as for mats and flaps - forget it! Fuel - just enough to get you to the nearest petrol station! 🤣

If its DSG, test drive it cold. Don't let the dealer warm it up first. I had a Skoda which had problems which were much less obvious once warmed up. Problems were terminal.

Pieface
Free Member
Dealers will universally expect to be knocked down £1500 on their listed price. Its why I always get that much PX on my knackered cars. This was also confirmed by a colleague that used to work in the business and pretty much everyone I’ve talked to that have bought cars 2nd hand from dealers.

This was absolutely true - in the 90s.

As it's really easy these days for you to compare similar cars from all over the country then garages very rarely discount at all. Good luck next time you try this! 🙂

@sharkattack - I paid almost exactly that for a 15 plate VRs (ok, £1k less) the other week private sale, slightly higher mileage than that one but in really lovely condition despite a dog and 2 kids in the family and it had the Pano roof I wanted.

It needs the cambelt and water pump doing, so I'm essentially including that in the price.

Miltary family who were being shipped out to the US this week, so they needed to get rid of the car and a motorbike on the same day! In a year the price I paid won't seem as important as it'll either be a useful car or a horrendous moneypit, but it seems solid so far 🙂

Yeah IME they'll shift on forecourt price, but not the online price (which is probably lower).

They know everyone can search online now and will/can travel, if they're not priced market rate people won't even come look at the car. Flip side of this, is the price is driven by the stuff they can show online, so you might get a good deal if it's better than the online overview might suggest in subtle ways (good service history, condition underneath as above etc).

Dealers will universally expect to be knocked down £1500 on their listed price.

No. They really don't unless it is brand new.

Another thing Autotrader doesn’t factor in as the “admin” fee. Most big chains charge you a couple of hundred pounds to sell you the car.

I'm sorry? What's this chat? I expect to get loads of upselling of fancy polishes, gap insurance and the like, but an admin fee? They could **** right off on principle! I've never heard of that before, granted I only buy a vehicle about every 5 years or so but the last one was only 3 years ago.

@sharkattack I know two folks who've had yeti's both have had pretty major problems/bills (known faults) and got shut. Do a lot of research before considering.

I’m sorry? What’s this chat? I expect to get loads of upselling of fancy polishes, gap insurance and the like, but an admin fee? They could **** right off on principle! I’ve never heard of that before, granted I only buy a vehicle about every 5 years or so but the last one was only 3 years ago.

Basically its a mandatory additional charge for covering things like valeting, HPI check etc. Not all dealers do it but a good proportion of them do.

Had it with the last car I bought. Both Premier Car Sales and Evans Halshaw wanted to add an admin fee to the sale price. Both were also useless and offered a shit trade in value for my car. I found the car I wanted elsewhere from an independent trader with no bullshit.

a mandatory additional charge for covering things like valeting, HPI check etc.

Good to know for next time I'm looking because there's no way I'm funding the basic costs of them doing business. That's like McDonalds putting on an extra charge for delivery from the fryer to the till.

There you go Onzdog, that's my advice. Save yourself £200 by refusing their admin charge when they show you the figures! I suspect they'd not want to lose a sale over it.

Yours, Mr Grumpybastard.

Good to know for next time I’m looking because there’s no way I’m funding the basic costs of them doing business

This is my view also. WTF should I buy a car and then be asked to contribute to the cost of them selling me the car.

Never had an admin fee added to a used car. A new car for things like registration etc sure as these are genuine added costs but never a second hand one and I've only ever bought from dealers.

Sure they've tried to add the gap cover, fly hitting the windscreen cover, £400 tyre insurance on tyres that cost £25 a piece etc but never an admin fee.

I would walk if they did try and add it over and above the sticker price.

Just bought a car, I don't know how the dealers have the patience with the back and forth to the managers office and leaving you for 10 minutes each time so keep adding a few quid onto your max.

We went straight in with the screen price knowing they would push back, and wanted a towbar fitting, about 40 minutes of painful negotiation later it's him saying they absolutely cannot give us anything off sticker price as they've already reduced it, to be saying 'well we are paying for towbar parts but not shifting on that £250 fitting charge'

If you want an easy life whilst secondhand cars are scarce, it's not with the effort haggling over £250. The car before we walked and told the dealer we'd probably be back before closing and even when they started chasing us, it was only £200 and a tank of fuel on offer.

I only ever buy a used car privately, that way you can weigh up the owner and get an impression if they looked after it or not. Also it won't have been "prepped" for sale with cheapo tyres and cheapo "smart repairs".

So long as you pay somewhere between the PX they have been offered and the dealer price you both win.

The difficulty is finding them before they get PX'd, nobody seems to sell late model cars privately anymore. I usually post up on owners club forums and things like that in the hope of snaring a decent buy.

They don't all do it, but it is pretty common. They are hiding the full cost of the car so they get more interest from online searches.

Evans Halshaw even had the temerity to try and justify it by saying doing it his way is just "being transparent".

I walked away shortly after that.

Reckon I could get that much off this one?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106173908233

@sharkattack take their finance and expect a £500 discount + a couple of services. A few days later pay off the finance.

Does the finance always give you the option of early payoff or is there a penalty?

@sharkattack take their finance and expect a £500 discount + a couple of services. A few days later pay off the finance.

Never thought of that. I'll see if it's an option.

I only ever buy a used car privately, that way you can weigh up the owner and get an impression if they looked after it or not. Also it won’t have been “prepped” for sale with cheapo tyres and cheapo “smart repairs”.

That's what I've always done but I've never had nice cars. Now that we have a bigger budget I'm a bit dubious handing over 9-10k to some bloke and driving away knowing anything can happen. When I bought my van last year (as documented on STW!) the seller was sound. We had a nice long test drive, van looked mint, drove it home with no issues then the timing belt snapped. I managed 2 conversations with the seller before he stopped answering his phone and blocked me on messenger. I was livid and that was only 3 grand.

Car dealerships are just like any other business - they want to make as much money as they can so there is no automatic discount. Maybe not so much these days, but for some sales people their commission might not be paid for their previous sale until the car that was p/x'ed against it has been sold. Situations like that can encourage a sales person to want to try and shift the car quicker making them more amenable to doing a deal. But they will also still have an eye on the profit margin in the car which may not be as big as you think it is.

Whether paying cash or using a p/x the most important figure you need to bear in mind is the cost to change. What are you happy to pay? Ignore any shenanigans about p/x value or discount off the car - it's just a number balancing game by the dealer. If the cost to change is above what you are happy to pay then just walk away. You are not obliged to buy the car. Sometimes dealers will be more willing to do better deals near the end of a month if they are close to hitting their targets but ultimately there are no real tricks. Some dealers or smarmy sales people will try various psychological games but just ignore them. Keep your eye on the total cost to change and if you don't like it just say so and walk. No need to be grumpy or rude - they're just doing their job. And you are the customer making the right decision for you.

Have bought quite a few cars over the years and have never had anyone try and slap any kind of additional admin fee on a second hand car. We get conned into by online ticket sales which is pretty irritating but a car dealership? Nope, they can do one. It would be like the Tesco cashier ringing up your shopping and then, just as you are about to pay, slaps on an additional £20 admin fee to cover his/her time for, basically, doing the job. Would you pay that?

the most important figure you need to bear in mind is the cost to change. What are you happy to pay? Ignore any shenanigans about p/x value or discount off the car – it’s just a number balancing game by the dealer.

This is the best advice so far. That's the discussion I had with the sales bloke when I bought my last van and was chopping in the old one.

We also had a discussion about paying for it.

"Do you want finance?"

"Yep. My bank offered me a loan at 2.9% because I'm old and have a good credit rating."

"I'll tick no on my form then." 😁

nobody seems to sell late model cars privately anymore

Probably cos most new cars on the road are either from a lease co & go to auction when the lease is up or PCP etc from a dealer and go to the dealer's stock when the hire period is up & the owner rolls onto another contract.

Only used a dealer twice butninfind it easier to haggle for stuff than a price reduction.
'I like it. I'll give you full asking price if you'll put a new set of tyres on it and another six months on the warranty' that sort of thing.
Things like tyres will cost them a lot less than what it will save you changing them in a few months

Does the finance always give you the option of early payoff or is there a penalty?

@onzadog one of the many things the EU did for us.

Theres a 14 day cooling off period on any financial product. Check your contract though, you may lose the free services. In that case you can make the first repayment and then settle the finance having paid one months worth of interest. Check the terms of what you are signing, the salesman might get antsy when you start looking for that bit or they might point you right to it as its common.

I bought a used VW from VW dealer and took the incentives, paid it off the very next day. My sister when buying a new Nissan had to make the first payment to keep her free services.

VW;s, especially campervans, are way overpriced in my opinion.

A dealer should give you better service than private, eg 12 month warranty or some kind of comeback if the cambelt snaps 5 miles down the road. Also, they will do finance.

Havin said that, the most important things are full service history and low mileage. Everything else is just a bonus as most modern cars will all get you around with much trouble, but lack of servicing and maintenence just kills anything mechanical.

Avoid too much electronics, they just go wrong on cars.
If anything, buy a car from a good mechanic, not a good salesman.

Just had a "chat" with the first one. 3 year old Volkswagen. They only offer a one month warranty and then the sales manager tells me that the FCA has stopped them from negotiating the finance rate as it's unfair to some people. They couldn't move on the 14.9% and similarly, wouldn't move on the price of the car.

I don't like when I feel I'm being lied to, so I left.

I feel I'm about to lose my last bit of credibility here but here goes...

We've bought 2 cars in the last 12 months. Last year a 69 plate Golf with 6000 miles from Arnold Clark in Stafford and a couple of months back a 67 plate Passat Estate with 29000 miles from Fords of Winsford.
Both transactions went very smoothly. Sensible prices, straightforward sales people. We've both now got cars that we're very happy with.
The Passat was bought without a test drive because of "the current situation" so they have a 14 day money back no-quibble return if you don't like it. Of course, that wouldn't be cost-free to the buyer but it was good to know it was there. Actually I originally put my £100 down on a Mondeo but changed my mind (after my local garage checked the reg with the local Ford dealer and confirmed it had one of the gearboxes that have a bad reputation) they didn't bat an eyelid and would have given me my money back. But as I really dislike shuffling round forecourts and batting off old-school salespeople I just picked the nicest big estate there. Turns out they were both ex-motability cars. It seems FoW buy a lot of them - so they end up with a lot of 3 yr old, dealer serviced, not-thrashed, low mileage, one careful owner cars.

@BigJohn Hope you're right about FoW, we're about to take a long drive over there to check one out.

the FCA has stopped them from negotiating the finance rate as it’s unfair to some people

This bit is largely correct but the reason the FCA stopped it was because car dealers were selling higher interest rate loans for more commission.

So yes, it was unfair to customers but due to the slightly dodgy practices of some dealerships.

Oh and statutory warranty on a used car is 6 months. What is and isn't covered is a little more complicated so some dealers just offer a third party 'enhanced' warranty as its just easier for them.

Don't expect a penny off the screen price. I didn't take the paint protection, my insurance broker told me the GAP insurance wasn't good value but my local garage said the RAC warranty was brilliant so I took that.

Dealers will universally expect to be knocked down £1500 on their listed price.

You sir are a muppet.

What did you get?

I'm going to see this on Wednesday morning...Skoda Yeti

First time buying a used car from a dealer. I'm not expecting any discount as the price is actually on the low side for such a clean example. Should I ask them to plug it into Vagcom or something and see if there's any faults?

If the Mrs. likes it and there's nothing that rings any alarm bells, I'd love to bring it home just so I can stop looking for bloody cars every day. I'm getting car fatigue.

This will tell you if it is overpriced or not

All 2nd hand cars are overpriced at the moment due to the lack of new cars coming through. I can sell my car for 4k more than what I paid for it several months ago.

Bonkers.

Not to pee on your chips Sharkey but whilst the Yeti looks like a decent car reasonably priced from a dealer, check that the Haldex has been serviced at least once if not twice. VAG cheaped out and fitted a Haldex5 to this generation of cars which ideally needs serviced every 30k miles (or sooner) including having the built in filter cleaned out (this is rarely if ever done unless it has been serviced by a decent indy) If not cleaned out the Haldex pump burns out and 4wd does not engage, even better it will not flag any warnings on the dash and not until you need it will you find your driving a 2wd car. Good news is a replacement pump is about £230 fitted and 1hr of labour will replace it.

Dealers will universally expect to be knocked down £1500 on their listed price. Its why I always get that much PX on my knackered cars. This was also confirmed by a colleague that used to work in the business and pretty much everyone I’ve talked to that have bought cars 2nd hand from dealers.

I worked around the country with 10+ Honda main dealers.

Any sales person who came back to their boss with £1500 off the screen price on a used car more than a couple of times would be fired for being an idiot.

If you came in near the end of the dealerships monthly target and they desperately needed so sell a car to hit some internal or manufacturer target, you might get that. If you did you should be high diving your self on being an amazing negotiator!

Not to pee on your chips Sharkey but whilst the Yeti looks like a decent car reasonably priced from a dealer, check that the Haldex has been serviced at least once if not twice.

Thanks but that's something I'm already aware of thanks to various forums and owners groups. I'll be asking for a good look at the history to see it it's been done but it looks like quite an easy DIY job if not. If I get a chance on the test drive I'll get it on some grass or gravel and see how many wheels I can get spinning!

BigJohn
Full Member
What did you get?

Didn't go well actually. The one we went to see was rather neglected.

Found a better example a hour further north!

Looking to buy a used car for my daughter over the next few days from Inchcape. Are we all still sucking it up and paying ticket price at dealers?

The way to get a grand off is offer them a grand less, if they can sell it to someone else for more they won't phone back, usually they do and offer you something off and most get very excited and spill da cash.

Best time is just before the end of the month, dealerships have to hit monthly targets, if they are low they will shift cars, but now is not going to work for that because sales are high, the real question is who on earth buys a car when prices are at an all time high?..then asks about discounting.

Yes I get that totally espresso…excruciating time to be buying. But essential to get a ‘starter car’ for daughter heading back to Uni. Just kind of resigned that we’ll have to pay the asking price.

FWIW I don't think i've ever bought a car without paying less than advertised, dealer or otherwise.

But my top tip is to get an independent inspection. It costs a tiny proportion of the total outlay.

I've done it three times after buying a lemon.

Once we got our deposit back and ran a mile. It was a Forester Diesel and I asked for a compression test due to known issues with some of these engines. It was dodgy, saved us $$$.
Second and third times worked a treat.
Mitsubishi L200 (i think that's what they're called in the UK) that's been outstanding - but got a new battery fitted thanks to the tester spotting it was on its way out. More than paid for the inspection.
Mini Cooper was the best though. I was buying from 1000km away so couldn't inspect myself. The tester was super-impressed with the condition of the car. He spotted it needed two new expensive 17" tyres because the load rating was incorrect. It could have failed the test i needed to register it in the new state. Dealer paid for the tyres.

But my top tip is to get an independent inspection. It costs a tiny proportion of the total outlay.

This is good, and the examples show why, they always find something and they will generally always fix it to make the sale.
The last couple of cars I bought(one for someone else) I was surprised how little negotiation there is now, I'm an older tyre kicker type and go looking for a deal, everything I moaned about they just fixed, and cash is no longer king, they make their money in 'financial packages', which is selling your debt, paying cash(by card ironically) is stealing a financial package opportunity these days.

Actually on the cash thing there may be a benefit in that you do have the power to do what car salesmen try to do to customers, instant card power, they are used to credit checks that come back lower than the price on the windscreen so always ask, don't tell them how you want to pay, then when it comes down to the line just say if you make it £x I'll pay by card right now, they invariably have to speak to a sales manager to ok that so be very straight and firm, tell them you have a couple of others lined up and will be buying today...in reality I would and I'm not bluffing them, if paying this way it's worth a shot.

But my top tip is to get an independent inspection. It costs a tiny proportion of the total outlay

I totally agree Reeksy. I had a close call last year when looking at a couple of XJRs. I paid for an RAC inspection (about £350 iirc) on the black one … received a call from the guy before he submitted his full report. “Very nice car. You are aware of the three replacement panels? And a poorly sealed door skin?” He’d detected the issues when measuring paint depth. I honestly would have taken it for a twenty minute blast and been desperate to hand over my cash and get home. So worth the reassurance of a professional check.

Obviously had to repeat the exercise with car #2 (in Racing Green). Positive outcome and the verbal report from the engineer was “Nicest car I’ve tested this year, possibly ever”

Currently going through the car buying process now but I am using a car finder service who know the dealer network and will check and deliver the car to me.
I know the exact car I want but have zero expertise in car buying.
I used them 9 years ago and the car I got lasted me until 3 weeks ago.

Good luck Caher

Thanks. It's a little like going to the dentist and trusting they'll give you the treatment you really need.

I know people are ordering cars online these days but I wouldn’t dare.

Why not? You get the option of driving the car for a week or so, then returning it if it’s not what you want, and I know for a fact that vehicles are given a very thorough check over before they enter the system, the sellers cherry-pick the very best cars, the rest go to auction. The company I work for is now part of Cazoo, we repair and refurbish cars, and they’re spending a huge amount of money upgrading facilities at our site, one of four around the country, including machines for refurbishment of alloys, redoing the diamond-cut finish, setting up an MOT facility, taking on mechanics for servicing, etc; and I see the cars that get dispatched, it’s my job to check them over.

Why not? You get the option of driving the car for a week or so, then returning it if it’s not what you want

Once.

So you better know what your shopping for.