GrahamS.

Thanks for that 🙂

I guess there will be little hope of avoiding having to trawl through the app-markets universe to find an Android equivalent of the iphone apps you refer to.

So, it would seem this is the future on the Smart-Phone.
Spending hours, searching hi-n-low for stuff you have a use for, or to allow you to run apps you already own on this Android OS.

Pros-n-Cons I suppose.

Ta
🙂

S

Solo… have you tried connecting the phone to a PC as a USB drive and looking on there for the Sync software on the phone itself? That's where they put it on the Desire, and I find it very hard to believe that HTC would do anything different for the Wildfire.

And trawl through the app-market? You do know you can search there don't you? Just type in GPS or maps and you'll get a nice list of different software. It really isn't very difficult you know… 🙂

No problem Solo. Similar apps on Android shouldn't be hard to find as funkynick says.

Oh and by the way, not sure where you got the notion that Android runs on Windows Mobile, but it doesn't. It is a direct competitor of Windows Mobile.

FN.

We did look on android market, but couldn't seem to find a search facility on the pages we saw.

That did seem strange to me at the time, but being new to this apps-market thingy, and with time on the weekend being at a premium, I didn't take it any further.

But I shall try again.

Thanks
🙂

S

i'm surprised you find android more complex than winmo. i think my brick of a phone runs winmo6 or 6.5, and i've had pdas with earlier versions. i'm pretty competent with windows on pcs, but had to install a decent filemanager for winmo ( resco ) to gain access to everything i wanted to on the pdas and phone, and winmo seems slow, and overly complicated to me.
also not sure why you'd worry about the big brother aspect of the sat nav, when your mobile is already pin-pointing your location pretty well through the radio towers that enable it to work as a phone…

also not sure why you'd worry about the big brother aspect of the sat nav, when your mobile is already pin-pointing your location pretty well through the radio towers that enable it to work as a phone…

I didn't bring my flame-proof suit with me to work today, but I thought that using Mob-Phone signal location data was restricted for use by the authourities only.

Having a private, commercial, company knowing where you are as a consequence of a real-time maps app they've pre-installed on your new phone, I would have classed as being different and not for me.

I'm not sure how all this works, but earlier posts, if I've interpreted them correctly, seem to indicate that because you are uploading your GPS position, in order to receive the correct map, then whomever is providing the map, can tell where you are.

Hhmmm, what can people/companies do with that info ?.

😉

S

I'm not sure how all this works, but earlier posts, if I've interpreted them correctly, seem to indicate that because you are uploading your GPS position, in order to receive the correct map, then whomever is providing the map, can tell where you are.

Yeah roughly. Although only on a per-map-tile basis, and even then it depends slightly on how zoomed in/out you are, screen size of your phone etc. as to how accurate they can be.

Also, on most phones with GPS (even some older ones), they use GPS plus network or wifi location to help with the fix, via a server provided by the phone manufacturer, which means potentially even if you have the maps on your phone, the shadowy 'they' who is providing this (nokia, google, Apple/skyhook etc.) can tell where you are, at least when you start using GPS.

I didn't bring my flame-proof suit with me to work today, but I thought that using Mob-Phone signal location data was restricted for use by the authourities only.

No, it's restricted to people who pay mobile phone companies for it. Although you are supposed to have to opt in for any service using it to track your own mobile phone.

Oh and newer tom-toms might well do this too, I don't know how their live traffic stuff works, but I imagine it might want an idea of where you are?

It basically depends whether you trust Orange / O2 / T-mobile or whoever, more or less than you trust Google or Microsoft or Apple. And also how much you think they will want to do bad things to you personally.

Joe

I found an LED torch app (for the Desire) last night.

Type in a word and it "translates" it onto morse code for the LED.

Can also vary the brightness (it's VERY bright)

SO cool!

Solo – you mention downloading maps and finding a new sat nav for your other half……

Co Pilot is available from Android Market for £25 for UK/Ireland or £50 Europe and stores the map on the sd card.

I found an LED torch app (for the Desire) last night.

Type in a word and it "translates" it onto morse code for the LED.

Can also vary the brightness (it's VERY bright)

SO cool!

LOL! all you need now is an app that will receive and translate back, then you could communicate over large distances, without being physically connected! oh – hang on… 😀

Joe.

Ok, thanks for that, I have been told now 😉

Makes me think I'll just break-out the old navigo a few of us bought and managed to install TTN on, a while back.

Its not that I've anything to hide, but it does seem to grate on me that corporates think that I am there lab-rat to observe as I trawl around the world.

Stumpy01.
Yeah, I'd just been surfing and seen people raving about co-pilot.

Think I'm going to leave it up to her.
I'm just going to load recommended file manager, try to get the flippin tones she wants, to work on it and just hand it back.
The weekend is too short as it is 😉

an app that will receive and translate back, then you could communicate over large distances, without being physically connected! oh – hang on…

Yeah, I was just thinking that. I could probably get the app, but I'd not have a clue what was being sent, if I saw someones phone light flashing back at me.

Incidentally. Is Android just a UI for windows mobile ?, or is it a fully different OS for mobiles ?.

😀

S

We did look on android market, but couldn't seem to find a search facility on the pages we saw.

That did seem strange to me at the time, but being new to this apps-market thingy, and with time on the weekend being at a premium, I didn't take it any further.

At least on my phone there's a magnifying glass button you click on and it takes you to a search page. In my experience Google are quite good at this searching thing 🙂

GrahamS – Member
This just in: hackers lie!

Lets say I create a mapping application. I might request the "Fine Location" and "Internet" permissions.

Seems fair enough? I need the location to put you on the map and the internet access to stream map tiles.

Cool. Now I can also use this app to track your position and upload it to the net without your permission. Thanks.

Then maybe I'll add a feature where you can easily navigate to the address of your stored contacts. So I'll need the "Contacts" permission. Seems reasonable.

Nice, now I can upload all your contact's personal details to any site I like. Thanks again.

Apple's not any better:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/06/apple-location-privacy-iphone-ipad.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10446402-245.html

http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/18/iphone-spyware-mobilepsy-tech-security-cx_ag_1218mobilespy.html

And didn't Apple pull a couple of apps recently that were collecting a little more information than they really needed? That was something they discovered after the fact – no evidence of any kind of sandbox vetting going on there…

(I don't think the iPhone is inherenly insecure, I'd say the difference between the two platforms is fairly small.)

android has nowt to do with windows at all, no matter how far under the surface you look, unless you're looking back in time, and trying to make connections through xerox i suppose!
it's a different OS completely.

Incidentally. Is Android just a UI for windows mobile ?, or is it a fully different OS for mobiles ?.

The latter. The base OS is actually a flavour of Linux AFAIK.

I'm just going to load recommended file manager, try to get the flippin tones she wants, to work on it and just hand it back.

The easiest way I've found to get a ringtone on my Desire is through the built in music player.

Connect the phone via USB cable and mount as a drive.
Drag and drop your content where you want it.

Fire up the built in music player and play your chosen tune.
While it's playing, press 'menu', 'set as ringtone'.

(I don't think the iPhone is inherenly insecure, I'd say the difference between the two platforms is fairly small.)

The difference is that they use a different model:

Apple uses the model that they check the apps, and once the app gets past Apple, it can do whatever it wants.

Google uses the model that no one checks the apps, but they do tell you what they do (in terms of what they have access to), and if someone gets caught doing something naughty, they revoke apps.

So the secureness of it depends on whether you completely trust Apple's approval process versus whether you bother to read the load of security stuff that the market installer brings up.

Joe

Apple uses the model that they check the apps, and once the app gets past Apple, it can do whatever it wants.

Google uses the model that no one checks the apps, but they do tell you what they do (in terms of what they have access to), and if someone gets caught doing something naughty, they revoke apps.

Not convinced they're that different: Apple certainly checks up on apps after approval – hence the apps getting pulled. And Google has built-in checks, I haven't bothered looking into them but I assume they're similar to the standard Java security model controls.

Cynically, I also think that a lot of Apple's app checking is market and legal orientated, not just user security.

What Gravity-Slave said 🙂

No file manager needed.

Apple uses the model that they check the apps, and once the app gets past Apple, it can do whatever it wants

Don't forget that with iOS4 Apple introduced the ability to shut down either system wide or specific apps location services. As well as showing which apps have been polling your location, so the end user can restrict an app from 'doing whatever it wants' in relation to geo data at least.

Apple's not any better

Indeed. I was attempting to counter duclicsic's assertion that "The Android security model is excellent" and Cougar's assertion that there is no malware/spyware on Android. Not trying to paint the iPhone as squeaky clean.

There will always be people who try to circumvent security on both devices, but I do think this is one area that Apple have the slight advantage.

Differences as I see it:

iPhone: all apps through a single distribution point.
Android: apps from marketplace or any developers website.

So Android immediately requires you to make trust decisions about your app source. Is this the real "Super Monkey Ball" or just a copycat app that is malicious.

iPhone: developers must register, sign a contract, and pay a $99 fee.
Android: anyone can develop for free.

So Apple can more easily chase rogue developers and they run the risk of having their license removed.

iPhone: apps are approved by an unknown process, which may or may not involve sandboxing, code inspection, etc
Android: apps just ask the user on installation and user must jydge the security risk.

So hacker/spyware guys must run the unknown risk of their violations being caught before their app even gets to market. On Android they will always get to market.

This difference of closed and tightly controlled versus open and free is one reason folk hate Apple. But it also provided a extra layer of protection and is the main reason that folk say Apple stuff just works.

IMHO Androids best defence is the fact it is open source and seen as the geek's choice. Hacker morals mean that friendly open source typically gets targetted far less big mean corps.

iPhone: all apps through a single distribution point.
Android: apps from marketplace or any developers website.

Most people will download their apps from the Android marketplace – it's the big link that's on the home page of your shiny new phone, I doubt that most people will bother with secondary markets, at least at the moment. At some point presumably Amazon and co. will start selling apps, too – a competitive market and (fairly) reliable user reviews will help.

This difference of closed and tightly controlled versus open and free is one reason folk hate Apple. But it also provided a extra layer of protection and is the main reason that folk say Apple stuff just works

Presumably the iPhone4 antenna issue is just another layer of protection – that malware's not going to phone any premium number when you use the special left hand iGrip 🙂

Presumably the iPhone4 antenna issue is just another layer of protection

Har-de-har, but it is a good example of people being happier attacking a big mean corporation. I doubt the same issue on Android phones would prompt such a vitriolic response (it certainly didn't with the Nexus One).

Apple are holding a press conference tomorrow (Friday) to discuss the antenna issue. No doubt they'll be announcing the new iGlove. 😀

Thanks for the info, esp the OS thing, I was proceeding under the impression that Android was just a UI for WM.

My mistake, thansk for the correction.
🙂

Thanks also for some of the tips. No magnifying button, as far as we can tell (only had the thing a few days), but I will go back and check again.

Cheers.

Solo

(it certainly didn't with the Nexus One).

Eh?
Are you suggesting the N1 has an antenna issue, because I can assure you mine doesn't.

They could be announcing the iDontcare to be honest, just as long as the 4.01 update comes out so I can JB my new, to me, 3GS.

Eh?
Are you suggesting the N1 has an antenna issue, because I can assure you mine doesn't.

That is because it got patched.

That's not an antenna issue, that's a radio software issue.
Plus, my N1 never had any reception issues on with any radio software (and I've tested all of them).
The problem only affected t-mobile users in the US as far as I am aware.

Still, it is another example of using end users as beta testers – and none of the major corporations are guilt free here.

That's not an antenna issue, that's a radio software issue.

And Apple claim that their issue looks much worse that it is due to a radio software issue.

The patched N1 still drops around 17-18dB of signal when it is "held wrongly", but no one really cares. The iPhone 4 drops 24dB and everyone freaks regardless of whether they actually own one or not.

Different attitude for different vendors, see?

(and that's not to say there isn't a genuine issue with the iPhone 4 that Apple really need to fix)

The patched N1 still drops around 17-18dB of signal when it is "held wrongly", but no one really cares. The iPhone 4 drops 24dB and everyone freaks regardless of whether they actually own one or not.

(and that's not to say there isn't a genuine issue with the iPhone 4 that Apple really need to fix)

Indeed, from Engadget's experiences it appears that there are some handsets that demonstrate the problem and some that don't.