Quite intrigued as to what two hardtail frames have almost identical geometry apart from a 7 degree difference in head angle.

I can actually say slack H/A really don’t matter too much on hardtails when riding very steep/technical terrain

Well that’s okay then. Glad you cleared that up. I’ll tell brant, cy et el to stop with their funny slack hardtails as they don’t matter 😕

HA is only 1 part of what makes a good frame and is just the number of the moment in the same way that it has been chain stay length, bb height, seat angle, etc etc etc at various times in the past.

I like the HX1 anyway

Deviant cheers for the informed advice, seem to have opened a can of worms here but that was not the intention. Just do not want to throw cash away on the wrong frame. Will also look at the cotic soul and the hx1 as they seem to pop up frequently among the replies.

having simultaniously owned 2 hardtails with almost identical geometry except for head angles (one 70deg H/A and the other a 63deg)…

Maybe you should have tried one whose HA was 66.5 degrees instead of comparing really slack with fairly steep?!

I can actually say slack H/A really don’t matter too much on hardtails when riding very steep/technical terrain. a short easily manouverable frame, low BB and stable (non-divey) fork are more important. if going flat out fast over rough terrain is your bag, the slacker H/A does increase stability…

My bag is having one MTB and it doing everything I want to do / am capable of doing. A reasonably light, reasonably slack, reasonably strong, reasonably stiff, reasonably compliant hardtail does just that. If I encounter very steep/technical terrain and it’s not beyond my mental ability then I want to ride that. If I encounter rough terrain asking to be ridden at high speed then likewise. If I’m riding twisty tight singletrack then ditto. Etc. And that’s whether it’s ‘natural’ or trail centre riding. Or races.

but if like 99% of blinkered (moronic?) overly long forked hardtail riders your riding actually consists of just sitting down for most of your bog standard XC/trail centre rides how could I ever expect you to understand this?

Unfortunately you’re addressing the wrong 1% – I do most of my riding with the saddle dropped, standing up.

OMG £480.00 for a cotic soul frame just too pricey for my pocket at the moment!!!

I’ll repeat myself, 300 quid for a frame that does exactly what you want – the Chumba HX1 – a serious bargain.

have a Identiti (yes I know) AKA. It rides well, not too stiff (compared to my last carbon HT’s anyway). Rides really well and climbs fairly good too but descends like my 4x bike and has a real playaround feel!

slack H/A really don’t matter too much on hardtails when riding very steep/technical terrain. a short easily manouverable frame, low BB and stable (non-divey) fork are more important. if going flat out fast over rough terrain is your bag, the slacker H/A does increase stability

what about going flat out fast over rough steep technical terrain..? 😀

Having seen the car wreck that is the Chumba forum on MTBR, I would never buy a Chumba. Unfortunately for Si, Oscar and Alan are doing real damage to his business and it feels like a brand which could fold at any moment. Luckily for Si, the Brodies and Canfields are very good brands and bikes.

Quite intrigued as to what two hardtail frames have almost identical geometry apart from a 7 degree difference in head angle.

A white one and a Black one! 😉 both were unbranded frames imported direct from eastern factories (bought around 1999/2000).
70 deg one was a lightweight alu dirtjump frame. the 63 deg one was a small XC frame. I snapped the DJ one’s headtube a few years back. ex has still got the 63deg one if you really wanted to see it. ran them both with 100mm judys, BB heights, chainstays and top-tube (and more importantly downtube) lengths all within mm of each other.

Maybe you should have tried one whose HA was 66.5 degrees instead of comparing really slack with fairly steep?!

have ridden plenty frames with H/A inbetween 63 and 74 over the years thanks!

what about going flat out fast over steep technical terrain..?

preferably a decent DH bike 😉 certainly not a longtravel fork stuck on a gate like pig of an XC frame.

thanks Xiphon – that made me laugh 😆

Yunki – you pathetic coward. 8)
but since you seem to “think” you know what you’re talking about, go on, tell us, how does head angle alone affect ascending? lets say for arguements sake, a difference of 7deg?

Lots of dolls thrown from prams!!
Only asked for some advice adout where to spend my dosh!

I find the GW character nauseating at the best of times.. 😳

I don’t think it’s cowardly to remove a pointless angry statement though.. it would be cowardly if I wouldn’t say it to your face perhaps.. spending every day gobbing off to strangers on a forum is slightly pathetic though isn’t it bey..

I’m not going to talk about head angles.. I haven’t made any claims about understanding them.. that was you..

I just made a suggestion based on my own experience and then asked you for furthur input based on yours..
so given your vastly superior knwoledge and experience can you explain why my frame choice is so wrong for the riding I do..?

or no..?

by all means be sick then Yunki but don’t try running back with a note from mummy to excuse your behaviour (or distinct lack of knowledge). 😉

Get yourself a Pace RC303 frame, luckily enough i have one i have just put up for sale.
They suit 130mm forks, are quite short and racy, i loved it but want a prince albert (frame, not the other!)
£145 posted to you sir.

My kona’s head angle is at least 1000 degrees, so it’s the best.

I find the GW character nauseating at the best of times.

I don’t think you’re alone. He’s like STWs very own pet troll 😀

Rather fascinated to see GW’s unbranded 1999/2000 small xc frame with a 63 degree head angle and 100mm forks. Can’t imagine that many such things exist now, nevermind back in 1999.

Having seen the car wreck that is the Chumba forum on MTBR, I would never buy a Chumba. Unfortunately for Si, Oscar and Alan are doing real damage to his business and it feels like a brand which could fold at any moment. Luckily for Si, the Brodies and Canfields are very good brands and bikes.

I don’t deal with Canfield anymore, far more hassle than Chumba ever have been. Please don’t believe everything you read 🙂

I deal with Chumba in the UK, so any issues and you deal with me, no one else. To date, i don’t think anyone has ever been unhappy with what i have supplied?

Curlie467
Funny you should mention a prince albert, just had a look and could fit the bill but those slacklines look damn awesome!

I own an HX1, it’s the 2nd one I’ve bought off Si (changed to new model with tapered steerer and anodised finish) and I’ve had nothing but good service. I was selling it to buy a custom ti frame but the ride, versatility and finish are so good I’ve realised selling it is madness and taken it off sale again.

When I bought my first HX1 one of the main selling points was the fact that the company seemed to be able to royally cock-off some of the self-important whiny bastards who frequent the chumba forum despite never having owned one. (Some of whom have been outed as working for other manufacturers)

63deg HA XC bike and 70deg HA DJ bike – no wonder they were unbranded!!

Some of whom have been outed as working for other manufacturers

I’d like to see that evidence (not that I doubt you).
My post was in no way a dig at Si, he has a good rep and I’ll be buying from him (soon hopefully). It won’t be a Chumba though.
I will say that you don’t need to have owned a Chumba to recognise appauling customer service and a dreadful attitude towards customers. They remind me of “fruit” from superstar.

Wanted a soul, couldn’t afford the £.

Bought a 2nd hand PA frame and sprayed it a pretty colour. Stuck some bling on it with nice stickers. Very happy.

Have done 40km* plus days on it fine. Most at home hacking around local trails

Still want a soul though…

*fear not o forumers I do have a suitably niche rich man’s bike too for longer days. Bouncy bouncy.

I’ve got a HX-1 from Si, great service and what a fantastic bike!

Great fun, amazingly capable, do-it-all yet still compliant is all I will say as I’ve not tried the cotics or canfields

EDIT: Forgot to say, it’s also a mega bargain at the mo!

Whatever happened to people just buying a bike that fitted well and was fun to ride? I remember when I was buying the Meta 2 and a bit years ago and people harped on about it’s lovely slack 68 HA, didn’t mean an awful lot to me, now people are saying here 68 isn’t slack enough?

Catch a grip guys, look at the whole package, not just top tube lengths and head angles.

Colour is important too 🙄

wrecker – Member

Some of whom have been outed as working for other manufacturers

I’d like to see that evidence (not that I doubt you).
My post was in no way a dig at Si, he has a good rep and I’ll be buying from him (soon hopefully). It won’t be a Chumba though.
I will say that you don’t need to have owned a Chumba to recognise appauling customer service and a dreadful attitude towards customers. They remind me of “fruit” from superstar.

Actually to be more accurate I should probably have said “appear to have been outed…” there’s threads full of the arguments about oddly coincidental posting histories, log on times, dual log-ins, schilling, counter-schilling and so on. I’ve stayed out of it and not read much for the last few months so it could have all been bollocks.

It’s an (oddly addictive) train wreck for sure, but Oscar/whoever seem to shout “Shill” to anyone who asks uncomfortable questions of them. I have no axe to grind with Chumba, but there’s a LOT of choice out there and so why would you buy from the likes of Alan Kang?

Thanks for a great thread. It’s kept me entertained all day 😆
+1 for a Prince Albert. Been riding mine for a few years now and it’s fantastic. Climbs well,it’s fantastic on descents and really chuckable. Also done some very long days on it.

My next (and longer travel) project is going to be building up the Genesis Alpitude frame that’s in my shed.

IvanDobski spoke to Si today nice bloke just need convincing about the silver colour

Chumba usa are in the shit in terms of Customer service (great bikes though), but si is a top bloke and I would have no qualms about buying anything from him.

+1 for chumba and si. I’ve an hx1 and it’s great. Si gave me a free saddle too as it was a bit late arriving from the states. Good service 🙂

I almost got banned for quoting the words on Xiphon’s photo. I’d probably recommend that’s removed from a public forum, my words were in jest – but that looks a bit offensive to those with a disability.

How is the anodizing finish?

I’m in a similar position, I have a shortlist of:

Cotic BFE – seems a good all rounder with suitable head angle.
Dialled PA – head angle OK?
Dialled Alpine – too gravity orientated?
Chumba HX1 – not heard much about chumba?
On One 456/SS – out of stock.

Just cant make me mind up!

I have an Alpitude! As it’s mine and I’m telling you, off course it’s the best bike in the world!!!
But in total seriousness, apart from the dodgy cable routing it’s a cracking little bike and can hold it’s own against any other!!!!!!!!!!!

have had some more pics emailed from Si of the Chumba (really nice guy) and the pics of built up customer bikes do look really well. The trouble with a question like this is that you have a short list that just gets longer and longer with the onslaught of suggestions so have to be ruthless and do a bit more research and take a long hard look at the riding I do as opposed to the eye candy available and my desires to have one!!!