- This topic has 98 replies, 44 voices, and was last updated 13 years ago by TandemJeremy.
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£700 fine for Brighton cyclist.
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uplinkFree MemberPosted 14 years ago
For all we know he could have also been a bit lippy to the beak
stumpyjonFull MemberPosted 14 years agoI can think of at least two situations where I've been forced to jump red lights on a bike. First occaision was a long stretch of temporary lights uphill, no way I could clear it in the time interval allowed. Second situation is traffic lights triggered by induction loops in the road. No chance of triggering them with a carbo road bike. Again due to road works there were no cars in my lane so after seeing the lights cycle several times before I jumped the lights.
Do agree though in the above case he deserved it. I just think we have some huge inconsitencies in sentancing guidelines though.
JeromeFree MemberPosted 14 years agoNever in a hurry when I cycle..
Just do not want to get run over whatever the law says..
I always stop at lights, mand then try to anticpate the green to get myself going.
J.cookeaaFull MemberPosted 14 years agoHmmm, the term "going early" is creeping in here, reading the pattern of the lights and having the road awareness to set off a second or so sooner than the car/bus/van next to you is not the same as Blatting through a Red light, "The Brighton One" appears to have been taking the piss quite honestly, no lights, RLJing, using the pavement and failure to stop (Probably because he knew the book would be thrown at him), He's hardly a Martyr to the cause…
MidlandTrailquestsGrahamFree MemberPosted 14 years agoIf we want truly fair and equitable access to the Roads…then it’s right that we abide by the rules and legislation as they apply to us…
Are you suggesting that if all cyclists stopped RLJing, local councils and the Highways Department would then provide proper facilities for cyclists ?
Or, to put it another way, are you suggesting that they don't provide proper facilities because some of us RLJ ?
I can't see the connection.crankboyFree MemberPosted 14 years agoReading the report and the level of the costs ordered i guess he also ran the case to trial rather than pleading guilty at an early stage. If he has done so he has not received the discount for a guilty plea of 33% and may have aggravated the bench during the course of the hearing. As has been said not stopping at the time is a serious offence carrying a greater punishment and annoys the police making a book throwing more likely.
Colin-TFull MemberPosted 14 years agoMolgrips, the junction was such that getting myself in-front of the traffic would have meant putting myself in the crossing traffic so that option was out. I'd already waited a cycle of the lights to try and start out legally and safely.
As for fair and equitable treatment…some drivers do give cyclists fair and equitable treatment, others, far too many, see bikes as inconveniences, anoyances, less than human even. However, I will always follow the most important "law" of riding on the road, that is to ride in a manner that maximises my safety and minimises my risk whilst putting no others at risk.
cookeaaFull MemberPosted 14 years ago@ MilitantGraham
Nope,
I’m suggesting they treat us like tossers because of the visible minority they see acting tossers it, then it’s a case of who shouts loudest, and those in favour of giving cars full priority shout loudest when cyclists are seen to be breaking the rules, you take away their ammunition if cyclists no longer break the rules, then we might be taken seriously if we ask for Cycle lanes that don’t end suddenly or route us under busses….
molgripsFree MemberPosted 14 years agoMolgrips – doing that where there is no ASL is red light jumping as well.
Technically, yes. But in principle no. I go to the front (which you're allowed to do), position myself in front of the lead car, and then stop and wait for green. You'd have a hard time prosecuting me for that – especially as they started putting in ASLs to encourage people to do exactly that.
As for why police should bother with this – how much time do you think it took? If the rozzer in question had no other urgent calls to be answering it could well have been 5-10 minutes well spent. I'm sure if he'd been on an emergency call to a drug related gangland shoot-out he'd not have stopped.
MidlandTrailquestsGrahamFree MemberPosted 14 years agoI see your point, cookeaa, I just don't think real life works like that.
To get from my house to the nearest town in either direction, I've got to either ride on a narrow B road with a 60mph limit, steep hills and blind bends, or a footpath along the river bank. I ride on the footpath.
I can't believe that even if every cyclist in the country suddenly started obeying all the rules, the council would provide a proper, safe cycle route.toby1Full MemberPosted 14 years agoI was thinking about the list of offences; picture this, riding towards cross roads, road to the left has people exiting joining the road you are on, road to the right is a dead end and has no cars coming out 90% of the time and nothing at this particular time, there are also no pedestrians at the crossing. As you approach your light changes to red, you nip onto the curb at the crossing – taking the turning to the left hence crossing the path of no traffic, use a 10m stretch of pavement and re-join the road with 0 risk of the being a car approaching from behind as you could see the whole of the junction as you approached.
Police siren goes off, you carry on, figuring they are going after someone who did somehting far more serious, so you carry on regardless till you realise they are following you (not sure that would count as resiting arrest but might count as failing to stop if they got shirty with you).
The theoretical junction is Gilbert road/Histon road in Cambridge (heading into Cambridge) for anyone who wants to check it on street view or who knows it.
I know it's still breking the law, but surely it's a soft break rather than a £700 fine crime, as people on here have pointed out before – you could pay less for ending a life.
Could be an over the top Police description of the situation.
TandemJeremyFree MemberPosted 14 years agoMolgrips – and you are breaking the law and pissing off the car drivers whilst doing so.
Either red light jumping is defensible or it is not. You cannot have your cake and eat it.
uplinkFree MemberPosted 14 years agoI can't believe that even if every cyclist in the country suddenly started obeying all the rules, the council would provide a proper, safe cycle route.
I don't either but it wont hurt the case
Most of the people who make the decisions for funding are likely to be car drivers & if all they see is – what looks like a – a load of gung-ho riding, they may be less likely to treat us favourably
rotaryFree MemberPosted 14 years agoprobably already been said but, if the government and local authorities invested more on cycle paths and more cycle friendly roads we would not have this problem in the first place.
molgripsFree MemberPosted 14 years agoprobably already been said but, if the government and local authorities invested more on cycle paths and more cycle friendly roads we would not have this problem in the first place.
Mmm, and if the majority of car driving people saw their council tax money being frittered away on these morons who won't drive, they'd get annoyed.
Democracy strikes again.
Molgrips – and you are breaking the law and pissing off the car drivers whilst doing so.
I pull to the front (slowly and carefully) and then stop, waiting for green. I've actually had drivers congratulating me on waiting for green. I don't think I am pissing anyone off.
Only you would consider waiting just over the line to be as bad as blitzing through the entire junction at speed.
TandemJeremyFree MemberPosted 14 years agoAnd only you would call careful and considerate going thru a red light as "blitzing through the entire junction at speed."
Going over the stop line is the same offence as going thru a red light – as that is what it is. Going to the front of a line of cars often pisses them off.
JeromeFree MemberPosted 14 years agoJust bought the paper in question so a few more facts to add..
£700 fine plus £215 costs.
Convicted in absence at local magistrate court.
Offence – junction of Dyke road and old shoreham road, about 11:15pm ignored a red light, bunny hopped onto pavement while riding without lights.
The officers tried to flag him down which he ignored and only stopped when they blocked his path and flashed their blues. No mention of any other behaviour.
Bicycle group saying fine was harsh, ROSPA saying cycling causes lots of accidents, police saying the public keep complaining and they will be repsonding to that.
Think the last comment is the factor here..
J.JeromeFree MemberPosted 14 years agoOh ans this was on the front page.
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8094859.Family_of_Portslade_victim_slam_death_crash_driver_s_sentence/MartinGTFree MemberPosted 14 years agoSpot on, cant stand cyclists who go trhough reds, cycle on pavements etc.
molgripsFree MemberPosted 14 years agoGoing over the stop line is the same offence as going thru a red light
Going through the junction on red, no matter how carefully, is way worse than crossing the line by a couple of meters – anyone can see that, as do most motorists in my view. It also pisses drivers off much more.
WoodyFree MemberPosted 14 years agoJerome
That front page story is shocking. Two kids now without a Dad who's death was caused by someone who probably shouldn't have been in this country and certainly should not have been driving. I'm not surprised the widow is angry at the sentence.
Sometimes I despair 😥
verticalclimberFree MemberPosted 14 years agoshould have been faster , wouldn't have got caught then. but no i dont agree with jumping reds
TandemJeremyFree MemberPosted 14 years agoso molgrips – some types of red light jumping are worse than others – is that what you are saying?
molgripsFree MemberPosted 14 years agoSentencing has to serve a purpose, not just make people feel better.
And TJ – yes, obviously.
TandemJeremyFree MemberPosted 14 years agoRight – so you think its OK for you to jump a red light then? As that is what you are doing. But its not OK for me to do so to avoid a dangerous situation?
westkipperFree MemberPosted 14 years agoOne observation of mine is that the biggest RLJers are often the cyclists that are most enthusiastic and vocal about cyclepaths. And vice-versa.
Its as if what cyclepaths there are have created a generation of riders who have no ability to ride legally on the road, and they always fall back on the old chestnut "but its not safe/suicide to ride on the road"
Bollox!
Frankly the guy in the story cannie really complain, but I'd be interested to hear of how comparable the fine would be in a similar motoring offence (aside from the points).uplinkFree MemberPosted 14 years agoFrankly the guy in the story cannie really complain, but I'd be interested to hear of how comparable the fine would be in a similar motoring offence (aside from the points).
Failing to stop [car etc.] is up to level 5 fine [£5000]
westkipperFree MemberPosted 14 years agoYeah, but its the 'up to' bit thats the clincher.
Causing death while driving can result in an 'up to' 14 years inside, but lots of drivers walk away with a 500 quid fine.
(and often their license intact)molgripsFree MemberPosted 14 years agoDepends, TJ – do you continue to ride through the junction and on your merry way whilst everyone else has to wait?
TandemJeremyFree MemberPosted 14 years agoThere are a small number of junctions where I cross on red as it is safer for me to do so than to wait for the green. this is done carefully and is no detriment to anyone else.
I think you are being hypocritical. What you are doing is red light jumping by crossing the stop line when on red.
molgripsFree MemberPosted 14 years agoWhat you are doing is red light jumping by crossing the stop line when on red.
You think there's no difference between waiting 1m across the line and sailing through a red light and carrying on with your journey?
coffeekingFree MemberPosted 14 years agoFrom a motorists point of view, creeping over the stopline is wrong and illegal, if cars did it they would be in trouble. There's simply no need if you take the proper road position, and it may get you in the way of pedestrians crossing at that point and puts you legally in the wrong in the case of an accident. Creeping over the line just puts you 1-2m ahead of the traffic meaning you clear the junction before they overtake you – fine, but if you'd take your rightful place in the middle of the lane they wouldn't pass you either, until you pulled over to let them past.
BermBanditFree MemberPosted 14 years agoNo defence for the RLJ cock, but then there is no defence for cyclists generally apparently !
molgripsFree MemberPosted 14 years agoNot legally no there isn't. Both are against the law
But morally there is. Also practically, since you would never get picked up for crossing the line by 1m.
Your point is?
but if you'd take your rightful place in the middle of the lane they wouldn't pass you either
In order to do that you'd have to wait in the queue of traffic. You are allowed to move up to the front. So it's either wedge your way in between two cars or sit infront of the line.
cookeaaFull MemberPosted 14 years agoThe whole point (for me at least) is not how leniently would a driver have been treated in the same situation, but is it fair to expect Cyclists as a group of Road users to obey the Law? The simple answer is yes, it’s far easier to effect change from the moral high ground than, a position of “I only break the law because it’s crap” just doesn’t wash when you reverse the argument and apply it to drivers it has to cut both ways…
The fact is he wasn’t in a car he was on a bike and has contributed to the increasingly poor image of urban cyclists; he deserves to be £915 out of pocket…
jimbobrightonFree MemberPosted 14 years agoOffence – junction of Dyke road and old shoreham road, about 11:15pm ignored a red light, bunny hopped onto pavement while riding without lights.
I just hope I can still do half decent bunny hops, in the dark when i'm 53 😀
mk1fanFree MemberPosted 14 years agoTandemJeremy – Member
The big fine is not for the red light jumping – its for failure to stop+1 and the other 'offences'.
The rider can't have been paying that much attention not to see a uniformed officer and police car/van (assumed the PO was not 'on the beat').
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