I love the fact MRI’s is short for magnetic resonance imaging when it’s proper title is nuclear magnetic resonating imaging but the nuclear parts freaks people out so it’s dropped.

fatmountain, do you have any academic scientific background? You’re clearly articulate but seem to have a pretty sketchy understanding of some physics basics. Good you’re constructively engaging though, learn from some of the other posters, it’s good to know there are many on here who do have some basic understanding.

It’s important as a society we do dispel much of the made up internet wisdom and half truths, life is going to get ever more technically driven and people need to be able to objectively make their own assessments as to whether advances are good or not.

The sparrow population in England has decreased in the last 30 years from 24 million to less than 14.
Isn’t the decrease in Sparrows alot to do with gaps in old house roofs being closed up when replaced and repaired to improve heat retention and UPVc facias preventing access to the nesting sites.

Yup, it’s pretty much a given that House Sparrows, which have adopted roof spaces for nesting in over the last couple of millennia, have been royally shafted by the government encouraging people to seal up pretty much every opening around house roofing in the interests of thermal efficiency and protecting the environment.
Starling populations have crashed over roughly the same period, for much the same reason, and also changes to farming practices, and swift and house martin populations also because house owners knock their nests down because the birds shit on the paths outside.
Or it could be due to mobile phone masts. Or satellite dishes. Or how about CB radios, they became popular about thirty years ago!

Sorry, I missed this.

I do know the differnece between sources designed to entertain and those designed to inform. Although that said, I must admit I feel I’ve over-estimated the scope of academic journals insofar as I just assumed they were reliable by virtue of being academic journals. You live and learn

The key word there is “intend.” With the best of wills in the world I could intend to perform open heart surgery, would you fancy being my first patient?

In your defence, it is a minefield. “Peer reviewed” for instance, well, who are these peers? Are they leading experts in their field, or a set of quacks looking to sell some books? Andrew Wakefield’s paper linking MMR with autism was peer reviewed and published (I think actually in the Lancet but I might have made that up), then later everyone bar Wakefield himself revoked their support as it became recognised for the shoddy piece of pseudo-research that it is.

This is what I was getting at before. Robust studies are difficult and crap ones widespread. How can you – or I – hope to validate the conclusions of articles on very complicated technical subjects? We’d have to spend a lot of time cross-referencing sources, analysing their methodology, essentially becoming researchers ourselves, and most of us are probably not qualified to do that.

So our choice then becomes either to accept that experts probably know more about their areas of expertise than we do, or we go “yeah but radiation, but wavelengths, but dead sparrows” and start watching David Icke videos.

Oh yeah. Have a read of this.

Try Googling “bird population pesticides” or similar.

Thre’s a creator on youtube called “Thunderfoot” whose channel i’ve subbed to.He debunks all this crap in an easy to understand way,which is just as well considering my limited intellect.
He has released a vid about CV19,worth a look.

@Fatmountain – Glad you have found some of the information here useful.

Despite some of the derisive comments on here, I think it is laudable that you are willing to listen, learn and question those who provide information rather than just take it a face value. If a lot of people in the UK were willing to do the same then this would be a much better country for it.

Apologies for not providing any paper references yet. I was just going to pull a load from my thesis but I seem to have lost the soft copy and the hard copy is in my office at work where I can’t get it at the moment.

If I can help explain things any further then please don’t hesitate to ask and I’ll do my best to answer.

I think it is laudable that you are willing to listen, learn and question those who provide information rather than just take it a face value.

If it’s not clear from my own previous comments, I agree wholeheartedly with this. Asking questions is a Good Thing, I’d not want to discourage that in anyone.

All I was trying to say was, it’s OK to not know things. There are many things we don’t know either as individuals or as a species. It’s great to be curious, the danger comes when we’re a little too keen to fill the gaps with any old fantasy notions that takes our fancy.

Sometimes the answer to “I don’t understand…” is, “here, let me try and explain.”
Sometimes the answer to “I don’t understand…” is, “correct.”

What a fantastic thread. Truly educational, laugh out loud funny in places and representative of the fact that the wider community of STW users is made up of a fascinating mix of experts across an enormous range of subject matter. Also the patience and integrity of the vast majority of forumites on here.

Fair play to Fat Mountain for having the courage to ask the questions, question the answers (and the answerers), stay civil in the face of some occasionally fairly derogatory comments (and a couple of very funny ones too) and be honest enough to admit how his understanding has changed in the face if the evidence put to him. After all, as a result of his desire to ‘understand’ (something I’m often guilty of) the amount that I at least now understand about 5G (not that I ever subscribe to any of the conspiracy theory bollix) is far greater than it was, or indeed than in was ever likely to be.

And finally, a senior manager at Vodafone who can’t pronounce Whoarewe / HuhAway / WhoAwe-i etc etc can take a running jump. His laboured explanation about the cells producing viruses that the body expels made me laugh out loud, and I only scraped a C in GCSE Biology because my girlfriend did my coursework.

Keep up the good work chaps!

@stumpyjon

No none whatsoever! I hope I was open about that from the start although I do teach at a university and I’ve done graduate and post-grad research, but I’m in no what shape or form a natural scientist. Coming back to it as an adult, I find it fascinating as I see the world in a completely different way than I did as a fourteen-year old. I loved physics as a kid but the science teachers at my secondary school put an end to that.

@jon,

Likewise for being patient. No worries about the references. If anything, it seems we’ll have a lot of time on our hands for the foreseeable future.

So our choice then becomes either to accept that experts probably know more about their areas of expertise than we do, or we go “yeah but radiation, but wavelengths, but dead sparrows” and start watching David Icke videos.”

Couger, well that’s a bit of a false dilemma, but you’re right about basically having to have faith in experts given they’ve spent their entire lives researching whatever. I also agree with what you say about journals (I’ll be able to share a more nuanced view with my students in the future!). I have to say though, sometimes conspiracy theories are true. I used to tell everyone we are being spied on through our phones and laptops. People said I should get my tinfoil hat out. Then, with Snowden, we found out it was all true and a whole lot more too.

All I can do with 5g is read some papers on EMF and then cross-reference things to make an informed decision. Beyond that I just don’t have the time to learn physics and maths from GCSE to PhD. In my opinion, the blame is partly with governments for not teaching critical thinking and in many cases outright exploiting ignorance – ‘we’ve had enough of experts’ – seems not, now we have a global pandemic on our hands. Gove really is reprehensible.

David Icke is far out but I find his conviction and theories amusing (although if you take his theory as analogy, it’s quite accurate i.e. an elite jetting around the world abducting children). I like especially the inter-dimensional reptiles. I read a fascinating book about DMT recently that talks about these ‘lizards’. The book’s called The Spirit Moleucule and investigates the drug known as DMT. A lot of people who take DMT independantly claim they meet and communicate with “high-tech reptiles”. I’m not saying I believe this, but as the author points out, it sure is an interesting phenomena.

well that’s a bit of a false dilemma, but you’re right about basically having to have faith in experts given they’ve spent their entire lives researching whatever.

I guess where I was going with this is “tell me more about it” is a better response than “I read something on the Internet and I think you might be wrong.” (Not that I’m saying that’s what you were doing, just generalising.)

I also agree with what you say about journals (I’ll be able to share a more nuanced view with my students in the future!).

Look into False Authority Syndrome. (-:

I have to say though, sometimes conspiracy theories are true. But mostly they are not.

Honestly, yes, this is correct but the ones that are true (like MKUltra) are very much exceptional outliers.

I don’t claim to have authority over anything. Many of my students are doing post-graduate research in engineering or sciences and have far more specialised knowledge about their disciplines than I ever will. I help them with topic sentences and how to avoid comma splices and various other things. I don’t think highly of myself at all.

Ah, sorry, you’ve got the wrong end of the stick, I should have been clearer. I wasn’t suggesting you were a false authority, rather that we’re more inclined to believe people in positions of perceived authority when they’re out of their depth. Eg, someone in a local police force sending out scam warnings that are in fact hoaxes.

Ah ok I get you! Have you seen the film Compliance by any chance? I guess if they made a film about false authority, it would be that (it’s a true story too). It’s the only film I’ve seen where the majority of the peolpe walked out, not because it was shit, but becasue it was virtually unbearable to watch.

All I was trying to say was, it’s OK to not know things.

I feel I sometimes infuriate people by answering “I don’t know” to a question rather than speculate or guess.

@slowoldman I get the same at work when people ask very involved questions, without providing enough information and then want a yes/no answer. They are clearly not looking to know that ‘it depends’!

Matt

fatmountain
Member
I don’t claim to have authority over anything. Many of my students are doing post-graduate research in engineering or sciences and have far more specialised knowledge about their disciplines than I ever will. I help them with topic sentences and how to avoid comma splices and various other things. I don’t think highly of myself at all.

But in an earlier post you claimed to be a “trained Academic”… an Academic is someone who holds and advanced degree such as a PhD, someone who understands academic rigour, critical thinking and the ability to construct facts/theory from multiple, often competing sources.

I don’t want to put you down here, but a non-lecturing teacher at a university who holds no degree is no more an Academic than the man who comes to service my boiler is an Engineer. You are, no doubt, a skilled professional and work at an academic institution, but whilst your interest is laudable, please do not abuse the titles. Those of us who’ve worked hard to achieve them know that they’re abused enough in the UK as it is.

matt_bl
Member

@slowoldman I get the same at work when people ask very involved questions, without providing enough information and then want a yes/no answer. They are clearly not looking to know that ‘it depends’!

Matt

ha that’s funny – i had a meeting with our new chairman a while back, he was asking which i can understand to be striaght forward quetions. The prbelem with this, is that there are many variables that affect the answer so, i could onyl answer with a “depends” and then give the rationale behind it.. in the end he just said i should stop being a politician- still not entirely sure what he meant by that.

This is worth a read. Not directly related to the OP, but it’s an interesting read and touches on a lot of what we were discussing around the worth of published papers and the spread of misinformation.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/hydroxychloroquine-trump-coronavirus-drug

i could onyl answer with a “depends” and then give the rationale behind it.. in the end he just said i should stop being a politician

Having come into contact with all levels of corporate manglement, I believe there might be some mileage in replacing people that elementally require and demand binary answers with some sort of device or or mechanical contraption that can make decisions based on binary inputs…

This is worth a read. Not directly related to the OP, but it’s an interesting read and touches on a lot of what we were discussing around the worth of published papers and the spread of misinformation

Good article.

This was a bit of a head scratcher.

The idea that hydroxychloroquine is “the cure” has taken off within certain online communities, including among anti-vaxxers

The mental contortions you must have to go through to convince yourself that one drug is a panacea to a global pandemic, while another is a consiracy by “big pharma” to poison your children is quite something.

A bit like the mental gymnastics that must take place to post garbage on social media about 5G from a mobile phone or wi-fi connected device.

Its almost like these people want to be mocked.

I see they have a new cheerleader on TV

Eamonn Holmes talking about the 5G conspiracy theory. I just can’t. pic.twitter.com/vdwlQe0M1L

— Richard (@gamray) April 13, 2020

.

Dr. Rashid Buttar BLASTS Gates, Fauci, EXPOSES Fake Pandemic Numbers As Economy Collapses
Don’t he’s a fan of 5g either!

“Rashid Buttar is an American osteopathic physician from Charlotte, North Carolina. He is known for his controversial use of chelation therapy for numerous conditions, including autism and cancer. He has been reprimanded by the North Carolina Board of Medical Examiners for unethical treatment of patients.”

From Wiki – I stopped at ‘osteopath’, as that’s a sufficient level of quackery to suggest anything else he promotes is also bollocks.

Look into False Authority Syndrome. (-:

That’s Trump, that is! It’s odd how Gates has somehow become the whipping boy for the whole C19 situation.

It’s odd how Gates has somehow become the whipping boy for the whole C19 situation

Gates is funding research for a vaccine and also funded a conference (event 201) last year to tell governments how to handle a pandemic so is deeply involved in the current situation. Gates is going to make the covid vaccine his next version of windows. He will license it and get governments to insist every citizen is vaccinated before they can travel outside of their country. He will have some kind of license that you have to present for travel (document or chip). And when he’s made billions from it he will create vaccine 2.0 then 3.0 then xd and vista etc. and everyone will have to upgrade.
He is set to make more billions than anyone thought was possible and he has the governments of the world assisting him willingly. Because it will take several months to develop the vaccine and he doesn’t want people building immunity naturally the lockdown scenario was presented at his conference. By the time freedom of movement is relaxed he will be almost ready with his first vaccine.

Yet more dangerous conspiracy bollocks from the US.

I thought I’d update this thread after just reading a Wired UK article in Flipboard – this insane 5G/C19 conspiracy crap isn’t just spreading, it’s now resulting in Openreach engineers working on broadband installations being threatened and attacked by members of the public!
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/5g-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-attacks

White Nancy above Bollington, Cheshire has been on the receiving end of these 5G/C19 conspirasist bell-ends. Lots of graffiti painted on White Nancy and the stone flags around it. It has Grade 2 listed status and was built to commemorate the Victory of the battle of Waterloo.

Only the other week it was illuminated in blue as a nod to the NHS and other essential workers

I thought I’d update this thread after just reading a Wired UK article

Came here to post the same thing. Quote for the TLDR crowd:

Since March 30, there have been 77 arson attacks on mobile phone masts across the UK, with staff working on mobile infrastructure also reporting 180 incidents of abuse. There have been 90 additional incidents of sabotage reported, ranging from failed arson attacks to attempts to damage mobile network infrastructure in other ways.

I read coverage of one of these arson attacks where they successfully destroyed a transmitter that had been put in specifically to give better mobile internet to people in hospital who cannot receive visitors due to Covid. The destroyed transmitter was not even 5G. Very few of them are, as that article explains.

This kind of nonsense is partly why I waste time disassembling flat earthers.

It’s all the same brain rot. An anti-intellectual anti-science movement that is steadily growing as people no longer understand the world around them.

In case it’s not been posted:

An equally fascinating and terrifying insight into how this shit gets “published”.

We had some Spanish bint over here a few years back convincing everyone they were being affected by infrasound generated by the marine turbines being tested nearby. Of course all her papers, and those of her cohorts, were published via the same “conference” papers hosted by some opaque institute in Spain. No doubt well funded shills but they had a staggering amount of people convinced in the community councils including the local hacks that wouldn’t know investigative journalism if it shat in their coffee. Some of the ignorance on display was bonkers, totally disputing peer reviewed proof it was crap because “they’re all in on it”. Sadly before that piece was published.

@squirrelking – I can’t bring myself to watch that video, I’ll probably have an aneurism or a coronary! Either that or my teeth grinding will keep the neighbourhood awake…
I can imagine these **** destroying a local wired broadband installation, then bitching loudly and at length about the loss of their broadband, stopping them spreading anti-5G bullshit!

Seen that Defcon vid before.  It’s very very concerning.  Definitely worth a watch to learn how activists and lobby groups use those methods to persuade governments to change laws.

Sadly it will take at least 1 fatality to get anyone to do anything proper about the 5G stuff, rather than just Facebook finally getting around to taking down 1 “personality” some time after their highly publicised event, and conveniently forgetting about all the extremist organisations that are brainwashing exactly the same way.

Just seen a depressing post on Facebook going on about Gates creating the virus and the end civil liberty. Clicked on their profile. They are an NHS Nurse….

@ampthill was the post related to the Plandemics documentary or Judy Mikovitz? It seems to be all the rage at the moment being a combination of antivax, world domination, man made covid, etc.

Just seen a depressing post on Facebook going on about Gates creating the virus and the end civil liberty. Clicked on their profile. They are an NHS Nurse…

This is why I’ve been avoiding Fb for the last couple of years…😫

Mate has just sent me what must be the same post on fb, hes arguing with someone else about it & wants to make sure theres nothing to it, where to start!

I’ve noticed a few phone masts around here now have signs on them indicating that they’re not 5G. The world we live in 🙁