The bit I still don’t get is this: “NSL means drive to the conditions, not 60 everywhere”

We all know this, and we should be able to judge conditions well enough without a little sign and the threat of three points because a road has bends. As I’ve said before, near houses / schools is different; but away from places where people could be reasonably expected, if 60 was safe enough on cars designed 30-40 years ago, it certainly should be now

As for “unexpected things” causing accidents: plenty unexpected things cause accidents on motorways. Perhaps they should all be 40 too?

No hedges.

I don’t see any on that photo of a road in Scotland, nor are there many on the country roads I use / used to use regularly 🙄

@monkeycmonkeydo – just chuckles quietly at the missed point

Why is it safe for some one of average driving skill to do 70 mph on a motorway without a care in the world, yet wrong for some one to do 70 mph on a country road paying attention

Hope that was ironic, if not please post licence to the bin

Personally, near schools they should go further like they do in south oz: 25 kph (15 mph) at school times

So what is near a school? are we going to say a 1 mile speed limit? maybe 2miles each side of the school? Obviously most drivers are too awesome for it to apply to them, so what has been achieved? Drivers aren’t going to slow to 15mph for two miles whilst they go past a school, they are simply to important for the limit to apply to them

A local village has a 20mph limit and the attitude of most drivers if you dare to drive that slow! beeping, driving on your bumper etc.

Drivers can not be trusted, why do we have speed bumps? because drivers can’t be trusted, why the proposal to lower the speed limit because drivers can’t be trusted to make decisions.

Will lowering the speed limit make much difference? looking at the number of awesome drivers who can drive, apply makeup/use the phone etc. I doubt it. But it might help make some drivers think twice.

Why shouldn’t black boxes be fitted? it won’t pick everything, but if you driving like a prat maybe it becomes obvious at trial.

Hope that was ironic, if not please post licence to the bin

not ironic he’s just trying to show how awesome he is.

I don’t see any on that photo of a road in Scotland, nor are there many on the country roads I use / used to use regularly

You clearly hadn’t seen this, leading me to fail you on observation and ability to read the conditions of the thread correctly. Please surrender your log-in and reapply after a few more lessons.

I struggle with long sentences – but in the first couple of pages the amount of Daily Wail style knee-jerk reactions without even bothering to read the proposal are staggering.

Oh, and I’ve driven that Rannoch Mor road plenty of times and you’re kidding yourself if you think 80-100mph is a suitable speed down there.

Why shouldn’t black boxes be fitted? it won’t pick everything, but if you driving like a prat maybe it becomes obvious at trial.

What would it tell you?

And ever heard of civil liberties if it involves recording voice?

Why not just use existing laws about careless driving, rather than putting up new speed limits which even you admit would probably make no difference?

What would it tell you?

And ever heard of civil liberties if it involves recording voice?

Sorry you are licensed to drive a car, you have no right to drive a car. Civil liberties don’t come into it, sooner car drivers understand this the better for everyone. As for what it would tell you, simple case where were you how fast you were going, how fast accelerating/decelerating, i.e. are you driving like a prat.

Do you object to Lorry drivers being on Tachos? Surely it would be better for everyone if we delimit trucks and let drivers choose the hours they do?

grum – Member
I struggle with long sentences – but in the first couple of pages the amount of Daily Wail style knee-jerk reactions without even bothering to read the proposal are staggering.
POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST

And as ever, such an erudite comment appears to lift the tone of the thread

Why not have a similar system to truck tachographs to record speed? Or are truck drivers having their cival liberties messed with?

Sorry you are licensed to drive a car, you have no right to drive a car. Civil liberties don’t come into it, sooner car drivers understand this the better for everyone. As for what it would tell you, simple case where were you how fast you were going, how fast accelerating/decelerating, i.e. are you driving like a prat.

Or whether you drive a lada or a Ferrari 🙄

I just find it amazing how many posts there are saying ‘how dare they impose a blanket 40mph on ALL country roads’, when at no point has that ever been suggested by anyone AFAICS.

grum – Member
I just find it amazing how many posts there are saying’how dare they impose a blanket 40mph on ALL country roads’, when at no point has that ever been suggested by anyone AFAICS.

This is STW. You know it’s not common practice here to let the facts let in the way of a good rant.

It surely doesn’t matter even if the speed limits are reduced as who is going to enforce them? Speed camera’s aren’t practical on narrow winding roads and it’s hardly like there’s any traffic cops about so I’d personally just drive at similar speeds as I do now.

As always driver eductaion and regular retests (say every 3 years)would be the best way to reduce accident rates and congestion rather than focusing on speed.

All the people moaning and wanting lower speed limits cite poor driving as the main justification. So why not fix the cause, rather than the symptom?

So why not fix the cause, rather than the symptom?

ban cars altogether ?

i’m up for it.

Why is it safe for some one of average driving skill to do 70 mph on a motorway without a care in the world, yet wrong for some one to do 70 mph on a country road paying attention.

Really?

When I’m El Presidente glorious leader for life, I’d Fit all cars with GPS speed limiters and ban car makers from selling road legal cars capable of more than the NSL…
And ban all the silly toys of distraction that modern cars are filled with..it’s a car! Not a mobile office, cinema and telecommunication centre..no wonder people get distracted..
😀

Oh, and I’ve driven that Rannoch Mor road plenty of times and you’re kidding yourself if you think 80-100mph is a suitable speed down there.

This depends on what you are driving, rot box mk1 Micra (yes it’s an ironic choice) maybe not, but in a modern sports saloon it may be possible to do it safely.

A modern sports saloon may make it safer for the driver but not much difference to other road users.

A modern sports saloon may make it safer for the driver but not much difference to other road users.

AA – have you actually ever driven? Of course it will make a difference, as the car is operating well within its parameters, unlike an old/small car which would be at 10/10ths.

I would urge people who are in favour of 20mph limits being stretched out to obscene distances to visit Norway.

Never have I wanted not to drive so badly in my whole life. Everywhere you go (except toll roads) there are mad low speed limits, and they are in-forced ruthlessly (which they really are not around here, I might see a speed camera wagon once or twice a month?) which means everyone commits suicide before they actually complete their journey. This is very dangerous for other road users as the driver less cars just plough into people**

**ok so a tad exaggerated and borderline offensive. But the point stands, what happens when you extend town limits (20 & 40mph buffer zones) is more often than not, drivers (whoever they are) feel like they are loosing time by adhering to the limits, so whilst yes, they may not be ‘speeding’, they are driving more aggressively in that area.

I’ll make an example. You are turning right out of a side road onto an A road with a 40mph extended limit (when it used to be 60mph) just outside of a towns 30mph limit. You will find it VERY difficult to get out now, as the cars are all bunched up, as they are trying not to loose any more time/any other cars/road users into their space. Vs. before the limit was lowered, yeah you get some people pulling away fast from the 30mph zone, but generally there will be MORE SAFE GAPS IN TRAFFIC TO PULL OUT INTO.
And that actually a fact, highways agency have done many studies on the subject, I read it somewhere that wasn’t a newspaper 😉

AA – have you actually ever driven? Of course it will make a difference, as the car is operating well within its parameters, unlike an old/small car which would be at 10/10ths.

you could be driving a Ferrari with the combined skills of Colin Mcrae and Aryton Senna but you still cannot account for the unexpected as well as you could at 60mph and as importantly others are not usualy expecting someone to be doing 120 on a public road.

The bit I still don’t get is this: “NSL means drive to the conditions, not 60 everywhere”

We all know this, and we should be able to judge conditions well enough without a little sign and the threat of three points because a road has bends.

I used to do 60mph in a crappy little Fiesta in places I won’t do 60mph now in a much better modern car.

This depends on what you are driving, rot box mk1 Micra (yes it’s an ironic choice) maybe not, but in a modern sports saloon it may be possible to do it safely.

As a_a suggested, safely for who? It’s a very popular spot with photographers and walkers/tourists, the are a few unofficial parking spots (where cars might stick out into the road a bit). I’ve walked along that stretch and it doesn’t feel very wide or safe with cars whizzing past at 60, let alone 100.

A 19 year old girl from the next town along from me was killed on my commute road a couple of months back. Single vehicle accident, she just went off on a corner, likely took it too fast. That’s the third death on that road since I moved to a rural town 3 years ago. I can’t help thinking she might still be here if there had been a 40 sign on that corner.

I saw the imbecile from some “motorists group” or other on BBC news this morning, shooting down his own credibility by saying that if a person does 50, and the person behind them gets impatient and passes somewhere daft causing an accident, it’s the fault of the person doing 50. It beggars belief !

So yes I think there should be more 40mph sections on rural roads, in fact they have put one in at Leadburn junction finally ! It only took an accident every month for common sense to dawn…

double post – internet broke

I can’t help thinking she might still be here if there had been a 40 sign on that corner.

Do you really think that someone who (clearly) could not judge a corner in her own locality would pay attention to 40mph sign?
Tragic incident, and my comment is not meant to detract in anyway from that, just a comment on human nature.

Well, yes I do think she might have slowed down for a 40 sign, she was a new driver according to the local paper.

There are 40 signs for trucks on the road from Glencoe to Fort William. Always get stuck behind folk that see the 40 but don’t realise it’s for trucks…

maccruiskeen – Member

There sort of already is a 40mph limit, anything over 3.5t should already be travelling at a max 40mph on any single carriageway.

Nope. 50mph up to 7.5t

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Roadsafetyadvice/DG_178867?CID=TAT&PLA=url_mon&CRE=speed_limits

I think what would save a LOT of lives/incidents would be better car control from the test.

Iceland/Finland (and probably many others) have proper extended tests that cover many aspects of car control in all weathers. I’ve seen SO many accidents where kids in small FWD car’s have over cooked it into a fast A-road corner (that a loaded 42t artic could take at the same speed/same conditions and be OK), feel it go a bit loose, then lift off or worse, brake, then spin it to inside of corner, often overturning it, and often slamming into oncoming traffic with disastrous results.

And that happens at LEAST twice a year on the road I use every day, its got one of the BEST surfaces of any road around, its an A road, it has mostly excellent viability and sign age, and was reduced to a blanket 50mph about 5years ago. Yet the accidents deaths are at least the same (certainly no fewer deaths, but it does feel like it has gone up if anything?), and I would say every time, itst he age old FWD lift off oversteer at work and young/inexperienced school run drivers who simply do not know what to do in that situation.

I feel a decent two day car handling course (could be done in groups like the motorbike tests are done) on old airfields etc would at least make more people aware of what a car does when it breaks free, or at least make people aware what NOT to do in certain situations. If done properly it wouldn’t even be very expensive to operate.

Just to add, Finland/Iceland have predominantly gravel roads, often with appalling weather and for the most part they drive pretty much the same car’s as we have in the UK, save snow tyres in winter, and more open treaded gravel tyres the rest of the year round. The times I’ve been to both countries I would say my road car skills are good enough (used to have a race license, and have several dozen hours of stage rallying under my belt), and even in a decent car, I’ll be put firmly in my place by the school run parent pretty much drifting a stock 30yr+ volvo/saab (with NO dents/scrapes/moose prints in the bonnet) around in total confidence. Goes to show!

Unless you drive on the country roads everyday there is no way to know the bend and the condition of the roads. Yet, some may drive on the country road as if they were on M-way and that is where the trouble starts.

I was taking my driving lesson recently where I saw a lady pushing the pram straight onto the zebra crossing without any care in the world. Yes, the traffic should stop at the zebra crossing for her to cross but then there is always a chance that some may not see her. I was rather far away so not a problem as I saw her but she gave me the shivers by expecting traffic to see her … 😯

Also at some housing estates why on earth do people think that just because there is a 20mph limit they can walk across the road whenever they like?

They site the number of road deaths on country roads as the reason for the proposed reduction in speed limit, but I bet not even half of the accidents reported occurred within the 60mph speed limit, so i refuse to see how people would obey an even lower one!

I think there should be an option to sit a harder driving test and pay higher road tax and insurance, with more stringent M.O.T standards just to be allowed to drive faster…

Well, yes I do think she might have slowed down for a 40 sign, she was a new driver according to the local paper.

Are you saying there weren’t warning signs suggesting that the upcoming corner would be sharp?

Besides which, we have signs suggesting max safe speeds. No need for actual limits in situations where an advisory 40mph would suffice.

The Southern Yeti – Member

I find driving at 40 on rural roads sooooo boring. I find it hard to stay awake.

get drunk – it makes it more interesting

Hilldodger – you need to look up hypocrisy in your dictionary 🙂

What you accuse me of may be wrong in your eyes – but it is not what I do nor is it hypocrisy

Still – never let the truth get in the way of you giving me a slagging eh? 🙂

zokes – Member

Are you saying there weren’t warning signs suggesting that the upcoming corner would be sharp?

eerrrrmmm … for inexperience drivers and with speed they get the tunnel vision so what signs?

Besides which, we have signs suggesting max safe speeds. No need for actual limits in situations where an advisory 40mph would suffice.

If only the drivers could take note of traffic signs otherwise the signs are just signs … no information taken in.

Grum and A_A the emboldened “may” qualified my remark implying safer for all under certain conditions only not at all times.

Also at some housing estates why on earth do people think that just because there is a 20mph limit they can walk across the road whenever they like?

They are pedestrians and they have the right of way at all times especially near their homes. Remember as drivers we are licensed to use the roads we are not there as a right.

I’ve seen SO many accidents where kids in small FWD car’s have over cooked it into a fast A-road corner…then spin it to inside of corner, often overturning it, and often slamming into oncoming traffic with disastrous results

Have you really? Really really?

on the subject of speed limit enforcement, are’nt all ‘modern’ cars fitted with some kind of ‘black box’ type tacograph computers along with the engine management gizmos?

i vaguely recall mention of an rta in the news where the drivers conviction was upheld on the basis of the data from said ‘black-box’.

the interesting twist to the story was that had he bought the british version of the car, the black-box would have been de-activated.

though, because he was driving the usa version where, i guess, such devices have to be fully operational, he ended being done for said rta.

maybe with black-boxes de-activated, its easier for the govt. to secure finance from speed cameras?

or maybe a law will be passed to make them operational?