https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/07/bp-profits-windfall-tax-gas-prices-ukraine-war
Hard to know what to make of it.
I don't own any shares... i wish i did...
Good profit... they're doing something well.
they’re doing something well.
Profiting on the back of massively inflated energy prices, that's what they're doing well.
To put their $28bn profit in context, that's more than the GDP of Iceland.
Profiting on the back of massively inflated energy prices, that’s what they’re doing well.
Which as a company, with shareholders, is kinda their job ? All companies strive to make profit... otherwise, well, what's the point.
I think the point is that BP haven't done anything innovative or clever, but instead made obscene profit on the misery of thousands who are struggling to keep themselves warm this winter. While the government is having to write cheques to keep the heating on for people, it's difficult for me to heap praise on big energy firms for their 'success'.
I agree... but what do you realistically expect them to do ? Make smaller profits and say "we're doing this because we're nice"
I'm not sure that's likely.... anyone can work out what they're doing is somewhat 'wrong' but if you owned 1% of their company, you'd want them to make profit wouldn't you ?
I bet there's millions of people in 'misery' who own shares in BP.
When winter has finished and we find out how many people died due to fuel poverty, I wonder what people will think then?
Profit on the backs of thousands of dead Russian and Ukrainians.
Rinsing the uk public for the betterment of the board and shareholders, which i am one.
There's making a profit and taking advantage of the general public, at least the fat cat directors bonuses will be millions, combined with share options and pension contributions.
Just maybe the tories will apply a windfall tax to drop it by a few billion, but they wont...
Just to be clear are people suggesting that the U.K. should tax the oil production of other sovereign counties? As has been said time after time the windfall tax only applies to U.K. production which is nothing like it used to be
Let’s also not make the mistake of thinking bp is a British company. It isn’t and hasn’t been for decades.
Also if you have a private pension you almost certainly own some bp shares.
Blaming oil companies for high energy costs is like blaming farmers for the high cost of food in the supermarkets. If you are looking for someone to blame for fuel poverty may I suggest looking at Westminster.
It is £43,0000 profit a minute.
Exactly what you would expect to happen if you removed Russian oil and gas from the markets overnight.
The West (for understandable reasons) decided to create an artificial scarcity of an important commodity and, hey presto, prices rose. Any company selling that commodity saw their profits rise.
Economics 101.
Very much a non story.
what do you realistically expect them to do ?
I expect them to face a hefty windfall tax, as has happened to energy companies throughout Europe this Winter.
I have no problems with firms making big profits through investment and innovation but when the profits are basically funded by human misery I do think this is one of those times when intervention is needed.
Free markets only work when the customer can walk away.
Profit on the backs of thousands of dead Russian and Ukrainians.
That's a very emotive and irrational way of looking at it.
The actual cause of the rise in their profits was the West's decision to stop buying Russian gas.
Energy companies should absolutely be nationalised with all the profits invested into public infrastructure. Who really "owns" gas and oil anyway?
Shell made 40 billion last year, BP making 23nb now; while businesses are closing down undermining the fabric of the social economy and individuals and families suffer. Energy is critical to any economy - governments need to ensure that the societies they govern have access to cheap energy. The post-pandemic profiteering by the energy companies is cyinical and unacceptable.
The oil companies extract mineral wealth which they've known for decades will impact the climate in ways which could destabilize human civilisation and derail a thousand years of advances; all while making eye-watering profits which they plough into keeping the system the same through regulatory capture and corruption of the political process, even if it's to the detriment of human civilisation.
Missed my limit sell order by 2p this morning. Is dissapoint. 🤐
On a vaguely related note, when ( if) do we expect protest groups to finally get their shit together to make investments in petro too toxic for the big funds?
I sold loads of BP a while back as I thought a slide was inevitable as everyone got a conscience. It hasn't happened yet but surely its only a matter of time before the markets get spooked and start a run?
Though of course the brake on that is that if the price halves then the dividend effectively doubles so people will buy back in again. Thus putting the price back to where it is now.
Thoughts?
And they say Liz Truss is stupid.
Energy companies should absolutely be nationalised with all the profits invested into public infrastructure
This, it works a treat for the Saudi's
How many shares do you need to own to go to the AGMs? Thinking of rocking up and voicing my displeasure at them.
what do you realistically expect them to do ? Make smaller profits and say “we’re doing this because we’re nice”
Yeah why not? Why does doing the decent thing for humanity, the planet, and the natural world always have to take a back seat, if any seat at all?
You know we came pretty close to effective nationalisation of U.K. oil and gas production. With effective tax rates of 70% + over the years the government took the lions share of the wealth it generated.
had we completely nationalised our industry we’d be in the exact same position as we are today.
Does anyone know the history of why we don’t own our own resources, and how little we sold off the rights for?
Energy companies should absolutely be nationalised with all the profits invested into public infrastructure. Who really “owns” gas and oil anyway?
As is repeatedly pointed out, a gants fart of BP and Shell is British. They closed down or sold their refineries over a decade ago (Corryton became a fuel depot, Stanlow is now run by Essar) Which is why BP's windfall was was £600million and Shells was a write off.
We tried nationalizing other countries industries a couple of centuries ago, it's not generally looked back on as a great thing anymore........
Does anyone know the history of why we don’t own our own resources, and how little we sold off the rights for?
Give or take a little the last 30 years of oil revenue for the government equals the last 30 years of the NHS.
And before someone says Norway, they had more resources and a population smaller than Yorkshire. It's a pointless comparison.
Does anyone know the history of why we don’t own our own resources, and how little we sold off the rights for?
we didn’t “sell” off the rights. ALL production in the North Sea is done under licence. “WE” own EVERYTHING. All the oil companies have is a licence to operate . We taxed the production VERY heavily and kept most of the profits for ourselves.
They sell the oil & gas on an open market, it's then traded as a commodity, bought and sold many times before it reaches the end consumer. It's that market that sets the price - BP could sell oil at $1 per barrel but 'the market' would mean the customer still buys it at the going rate. Someone in the chain will still benefit (the one that buys it $1 and sells it at $75) but it ain't you or me.
You could try turning off the global commodities market so there's a fixed price for oil, gas, wheat etc, or maybe restrict BP & Shell to only sell british oil to british people at british prices but I'm not sure either of those is really a viable solution.
Anyhow, a further concern is that they are saying they'll actually keep producing more fossil fuels for longer than they had previously committed to "because of demand".
Well let's see how much of that profit goes into their investment in "the transition to green energy" and how much goes into shareholders pockets.
As is repeatedly pointed out, a gants fart of BP and Shell is British. They closed down or sold their refineries over a decade ago (Corryton became a fuel depot, Stanlow is now run by Essar) Which is why BP’s windfall was was £600million and Shells was a write off.
To be fair they do still operate ETAP, Clair and Schiehallion fields from their Dyce office...
I wonder what the UK would be like had we not privatised BP in 1987...
bp would be a much smaller company making a lot less money as it would never have merged with Amoco. Whether it would have been able to operate in other locations, especially the US is also doubtful but I may be wrong on that point.
They are producing a commodity which is in short supply. Short supply = high price = big profits. We need a bigger supply. More drilling. Fracking would possibly help as well.
So much for those advising investment in oil was a bad idea because "stranded assets"
To be fair they do still operate ETAP, Clair and Schiehallion fields from their Dyce office…
is that right? I thought they sold them to Harbour?
Anyway - what I expect is that BP, Shell et al make a profit but within the limits of what’s ethical and honest.
We need a bigger supply. More drilling. Fracking would possibly help as well.
We need a bigger supply of energy but not hydrocarbons.
@twistedpencil "How many shares do you need to own to go to the AGMs? Thinking of rocking up and voicing my displeasure at them"
one ordinary share would do it !
@thegeneralist, why did you sell, was it a short term buy, i bought in 2021 sat on 7-8% dividend pa. got in a 310-315 so would need a disaster to lose money now. although that glasgow climate conference absolutely hammered them in oct21, i have no exit plan on them, so need to formulate one
I think we now know what happened to the Mayans.
The ruling classes made a fortune on corn while the people were starving. So the people rose up and stabbed their leaders to death.
but what do you realistically expect them to do ?
Pay more Tax
Not use the excess profits to increase dividends or do share buy-backs
Invest more in renewable energy
Invest less in fossil fuels
Setup projects to help people with energy bills
Give the money to charity?
All of these things are in the power of BP. Instead they choose to line the pockets of their shareholders.
Pay more Tax
Pay more to who? More to each country where the oil and gas is produced or just the UK?
Not use the excess profits to increase dividends or do share buy-backs
So they just sit on the cash? this will of course negatively impact pension investments.
Invest more in renewable energy
Fair.
Invest less in fossil fuels
You do understand what their business is right? A move away from Fossil fuels requires an effort that needs to be made at government levels. Thr private sector simply does not have the clout to do this on their own.
Setup projects to help people with energy bills
You mean all over the world and not just the UK right? That means about £3-30 (max) per person across the globe, assuming a zero cost set up of such a scheme.
Give the money to charity?
See above.
You do understand what their business is right?
Yeah, killing the planet and lining the pockets of shareholders with money that has been extracted from the pockets of bill-payers. It's daylight robbery plain and simple. I have literally no idea why people like yourself are defending them. 🤷♂️
Yeah, killing the planet and lining the pockets of shareholders with money that has been extracted from the pockets of bill-payers
Or, supplying the energy needs as demanded by the public.
I have literally no idea why people like yourself are defending them.
I'm not defending them, I'm pointing out the flaws in arguments that are being presented as "easy solutions" by people who don't fully understand the subject matter.
by people who don’t fully understand the subject matter.
I understand just fine. They've made billions by doing nothing and are using that money to enrich their shareholders rather than paying it back to the bill-payers who it's been stolen from. It's as simple as that.
I understand just fine. They’ve made billions by doing nothing and are using that money to enrich their shareholders rather than paying it back to the bill-payers who it’s been stolen from. It’s as simple as that.
Which bill payers are YOU talking about? The ones in the UK or the ones all over the world? If all private oil and gas companies gave away ALL thier profit it wouldn't make a dent and anyones bill, unless you want to keep all global profits for the UK alone?
Yeah, killing the planet and lining the pockets of shareholders with money that has been extracted from the pockets of bill-payers. It’s daylight robbery plain and simple. I have literally no idea why people like yourself are defending them.
So don't buy the product they're selling if it's so simple?
I'm not defending them, I'm just surprised by peoples levels of delusion on the subject.
In any other walk of life if you bought a product you'd probably accept that it has a carbon footprint attached to it and hopefully think of ways you could minimize that. Then you go fill your car up with petrol and blame an energy company for destroying the planet 🤷♂️
killing the planet and lining the pockets of shareholders with money that has been extracted from the pockets of bill-payers.
Nope. As above BP could give the stuff away, someone in the buying and selling chain between them and you would still make the profit to sell it at the 'market rate'. BP are not directly responsible for your energy bill, that comes down to good old fashioned supply and demand and the the global commodities trade. (OK, so BP are part of the supply side but the big change has come about thanks to Russia)
This thread is an amazing combination of righteous anger and total ignorance of how markets work...
@footflaps its not got too bad yet, read facebook posts on the subject, its all a conspiracy.. ;0)
BP & Shell are massive constituents of the LSE / FTSE100, they pay huge sums in dividends to pension funds, they employ many thousands,
the share prices have barely recovered back to pre-pandemic levels,
As a shareholder I'm not a fan of the buybacks, in theory they buy 2.5% of the total shares , fewer shareholders (97.5%) so each share should be worth more. it rarely happens in practise.. boost eps short term and they overpay for them, when they could be reinvesting in renewables. other pro's and cons too..
crazy I'm up 15% this year on my portfolio heavily un-diversified in oil and uk banks
Nationalisation of BP is for the birds; we know they have talked with gov to make clear they have options to change their domicile - as other global companies with UK HQs will also have done. Basically, back off or we move.
All UK pension investments - other than any which are 100% 'ethically' invested - will include BP which will always be a consideration.
UK accounts for c7% of t/o; profit % is far less.
Share price has doubled in 12 months so...good news for shareholders aka the owners.
BP publish a report which shows their performance in each country in which they trade; have a look to see how insignificant the UK is in their world
