• This topic has 6,282 replies, 176 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by kelvin.
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  • 2019 General Election
  • kimbers
    Full Member

    Labour are scooping up lib dem votes

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Labour are scooping up lib dem votes

    Yes they are. Last time that happened, it gave the Conservative party lots of seats. It all depends on how that pans out in very different seats in different parts of the UK. Hopefully it’ll mean Labour keep a reasonable seat count… but it’s also likely to give the Conservatives a majority of seats.

    The people Jez surrounds himself with are hardly helping his public image…

    You can only vote Labour by choosing to forget that the current leader chose a millionaire anti-European pro-Soviet Communist as an advisor. That’s what I’m doing.

    Vote Labour. Ignore Murray.

    binners
    Full Member

    All that matters from the Lib Dems perspective is that enough people vote tactically in winnable seats in the South East to take seats off the Tory’s. What seems to be helping is they’re specifically targeting some truly horrible Brexiteer bastards like Dominic Raab who represent remain-voting constituencies.

    And hope that there aren’t enough complete dimwits like the focus group on channel 4 news the other night – former labour voters who are going to vote for Boris because of Corbyn (and the Stalin apologists, Putin fan bois and ‘Marxist’ multi-millionaires that surround him)

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    bigmountainscotland
    Free Member

    Thank goodness for Danny Finkelstein…

    After all, if it wasn’t for him, we wouldn’t have such an in depth record of the inside story of the events that led to such an explosive rift in the Conservative Party

    Insider knowledge

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    All that matters from the Lib Dems perspective is that enough people vote tactically in winnable seats in the South East to take seats off the Tory’s.

    Not just the South East. Good chance here in Cheadle!

    cinnamon_girl
    Full Member

    @alcolepone @dannyh @binners

    Sorry for the delay in answering your q’s. I’m an old girl although not old enough to vote in the original referendum and am disappointed that we still have the same two parties arguing. I do remember the 3 day week, the miners strike, power cuts etc. and sincerely hope that we won’t return to that at any time in the future. We’ve not moved forward as a United Kingdom although there has been attempts at new parties being formed. Bottom line is that we need a new system whether that be proportional representation or something else.

    Cameron should never have been allowed to offer a vote to the public on a simple “yes” or “no”. I don’t know whether any Tories objected to this but it was utter stupidity and shouldn’t have been allowed to happen.

    Moving on to the EU itself, I want to see a pared back EU with trustworthy info given on costings for each part. Yes, it’s definitely good for simplifying trading and don’t have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is that at some point in the future we could end up with a United States of Europe. I believe we should be making our own decisions instead of kowtowing to Brussels and that includes butting out of some issues.

    I’m not “thick enough” to believe figures written on a bus nor believe Tory rhetoric but the bottom line is that some of the money we’re contributing to the EU is desperately needed in the UK. One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority. It’s horrific the numbers that are losing their lives each year and there is much work needing done to offer these youngsters a future, a future that includes employment and a belief that they can contribute to society and indeed be a valued member. A start would be to restore funding for youth workers and youth centres, these should not have been axed due to austerity.

    Really, I believe that many are thoroughly disenchanted with politics and all the lies being spouted by politicians resulting in unconsidered voting, if they can be bothered in the first place that is.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority. It’s horrific the numbers that are losing their lives each year

    Have you seen the good work being done in Glasgow – still in the EU and the UK?

    kimbers
    Full Member

    but the bottom line is that some of the money we’re contributing to the EU is desperately needed in the UK. One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority.

    pretty much every single economic analysis, including the governments own! shows that leaving the EU leaves us less well off, by considerably more than EU membership costs (<1% of GDP)

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Thanks for posting CG in the face of such scathing comments earlier. I’ll try to be as nice as possible, but I would like to discuss.

    I’m posting my response on the existing EU ref thread so as not to de-rail.

    https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/1905/#post-10945344

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    You can only vote Labour by choosing to forget that the current leader chose is a millionaire anti-European pro-Soviet Communist as an advisor.

    This is the problem for Jezza. They’re not just advisers ,they’re fellow travellers. He shares their politics and their world view.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority.

    That’s not gonna change, Brexit or not, if Tories keep power. They don’t care, and even when they do they have no idea how to fix it. They think simply locking everyone up who acts a bit shady is going to solve the problem.

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    What I do have a problem with is that at some point in the future we could end up with a United States of Europe.

    So how about leaving THEN if we don’t like it? Or simply vote against it, or use our veto. It seems at the moment, like the “EU army”, there is very little support for the idea amongst member states anyway.

    pretty much every single economic analysis, including the governments own! shows that leaving the EU leaves us less well off, by considerably more than EU membership costs.

    Current GDP is about £2 trillion. Net cost of EU about £10 billion (about 0.5% of GDP). My tax return from last year shows it cost me, personally, £64. Estimated loss of GDP post Brexit is 3-4%, depending on whether you use independent (lower figure) or government’s own estimate from 2018 (higher figure) in perpetuity. That’s a loss of £60-80 billion per annum.

    Deduct saving through not paying EU membership = £50-70 billion per annum. So where does that extra money to combat knife crime, support the NHS, etc. come from?

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    So where does that extra money to combat knife crime, support the NHS, etc. come from?

    Taxes. The same place all government money comes from.

    twistedpencil
    Full Member

    @slowoldman, I’ll be doing my bit with the tactical voting here in Cheadle as well. Hoping the Labour candidate rocks up so I can ask him why he doesn’t withdraw to help kick Mrs Robinson out…

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    Taxes. The same place all government money comes from.

    Exactly, so not from saving the EU membership fee.

    binners
    Full Member

    One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority.

    If it were middle-class white kids in leafy suburbs getting knifed then they’d plough resources into it and stop it tomorrow. But it’s not, so they won’t.

    Thats not EU priorities, those are Westminster priorities. They literally couldn’t care less about black kids getting knifed on sink estates. Just like they collectively shrugged after Grenfell. They don’t give a toss.

    Whats mental is that its the EU has taken the money given to it by the UK and effectively redistributed it to the poorer areas of Britain that Westminster doesn’t even acknowledge exist, let alone fund. Built stuff for the people who don’t matter to our own MP’s.

    Which is why it absolutely baffles me that deprived areas, covered in infrastructure bearing plaques ‘funded by the EU’ voted to leave. Do these people actually believe that the money no longer given to the EU is going to miraculously find its way to them instead? Not a cat in hells chance! It’ll find its way into the offshore bank accounts of their rich mates, one way or another

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    There was no way a man with that much of a mountain of toxic baggage should be anywhere near the leadership of the party. He’s an absolute liability!

    Momentum needed a puppet, and he was the easiest target for them to stick their hand up inside.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    The same place all government money comes from.

    Not always. Governments can make money from state-owned businesses. That’s why Norway is so rich – they kept their oil business and invested the profits, instead of flogging it off. So now the country is rich instead of some private individuals. Tell me again why nationalised industry is such a bad idea?

    kerley
    Free Member

    Really, I believe that many are thoroughly disenchanted with politics and all the lies being spouted by politicians resulting in unconsidered voting

    It would appear that you are one of the unconsidered voters. The things you want to be better have absolutely nothing to do with being in the EU and all about the UK government.
    Even if we were financially better off out of the EU the money won’t be spent on knife crime, giving people better futures etc,. That could be done right now if a government wanted to do it.

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    Tell me again why nationalised industry is such a bad idea?

    Because not not every country has huge oil reserves?

    It’s the same reason Scottish Water does well; they have a ridiculous amount of product that falls from the sky every day

    somafunk
    Full Member

    I want to see a pared back EU with trustworthy info given on costings for each part , What I do have a problem with is that at some point in the future we could end up with a United States of Europe. I believe we should be making our own decisions instead of kowtowing to Brussels and that includes butting out of some issues. One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority. A start would be to restore funding for youth workers and youth centres, these should not have been axed due to austerity.

    Thanks for explaining your reasons for voting brexit,  Very good, i can now see you have entirely valid reasons for leaving that you can hold up to the highest scrutiny……….if you are homer simpson that is, otherwise your explanation is nothing but blah….blah…word salad….some more unsubstantiated guff, etc…etc….. Not one of your issues can be laid at the door of the EU, well done for outing yourself as easily led/persuadable/gullible though.

    solarider
    Free Member

    I am a Brexit Remainer living in an overwhelmingly Remain constituency. Hilariously we just had the local Conservative candidate flyer through the door. The first line states ‘this election is not about Brexit’. Guess he knows what a hard sell his party’s commitments are around here. Hasn’t he read Boris’s memos?!!

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    I think koldun’s response to cinnamon_girl (on the other thread) is a better one than that of somafunk.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    As Molgrips has quite rightly moved this discussion to the other thread, I’ve replied likewise.

    https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/1905/

    kimbers
    Full Member

    It’s the same reason Scottish Water does well; they have a ridiculous amount of product that falls from the sky every day

    bobbins

    before it was nationalised it was less efficient than England’s system, now it cleaner, cheaper & less leakier than rest of UKs!

    Cougar
    Full Member

    Even if we were financially better off out of the EU the money won’t be spent on knife crime, giving people better futures etc,. That could be done right now if a government wanted to do it.

    Remind me again, how many billions has brexit cost us already, with the square root of jeff all to show for it? Must be a few hospitals and coppers worth. And we’ve not left yet…

    Northwind
    Full Member

    binners

    Subscriber

    All that matters from the Lib Dems perspective is that enough people vote tactically in winnable seats in the South East to take seats off the Tory’s.

    They’re running hard in my seat, 100% positioned against the SNP – literally got a flyer through the door today with a dodgy graph (of course) based on the EU elections suggesting that “last time” they were second and the tories were 4th, so you can safely vote lib dem instead of SNP.

    Actually, “last time” the SNP were first, the tories only 2000 votes behind, and the lib dems got 4%.

    This as I mentioned is Joanna Cherry’s seat- so they’re running against one of the most important remainers, who is part of the biggest remain party, with a campaign that will see them be 4th, just conceivably 3rd, but might be enough to flip the seat to the Tories.

    This is a seat that tactical voting could make bombproof safe, but they’ve chosen instead to do this mental bullshit. Like I say, it’s nice to think that it’s remain first and foremost for them but it’s clearly not.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    before it was nationalised it was less efficient than England’s system, now it cleaner, cheaper & less leakier than rest of UKs!

    Although, amusingly, it’s not good enough to supply the Scottish Public sector:

    In 2015, the Scottish Government chose Anglian Water to provide water management services to the public sector in Scotland in a £350m contract.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Because not not every country has huge oil reserves?

    Nooo.. obviously.. but the wider point is that a government can manage industrial resources for the benefit of its citizens… So if a business is profitable it can actually help the country no?

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    but the wider point is that a government can manage industrial resources for the benefit of its citizens…

    Not quite true.

    A responsible, competent govt can do that. The shower of crap we get (and are likely to get again) in this country I wouldn’t trust to run a bath.

    And that includes Tory, Labout, SNP and all the ‘alternatives’. All are twunts of the same kidney

    Bottom line is that we need a new system whether that be proportional representation or something else.

    @c-g there was a referendum for that. It was defeated. The govt you get is therefore the govt you deserve.

    Or something.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    boomerlives

    Subscriber

    Momentum needed a puppet, and he was the easiest target for them to stick their hand up inside.

    Yes, such is the power of Momentum, that despite being formed after Corbyn became leader of the labour party, they reached back in time and made it happen. Momentum are a reaction to Corbyn, not the cause.

    There’s just something about Momentum that seems to suspend disbelief. This is barely the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard about them despite being demonstrably false. As if 40000 lefties could take over a political party of 400000 people- getting 2 lefties to get their shit together is hard enough, getting 20 out to protest outside a Barclays is miraculous. But they’re treated like this unstoppable force. I guess some people want a bogeyman? It’s like those right wingers who still think their £3 vote made a difference, when actually it just subsidised the Labour party.

    alcolepone
    Free Member

    does anyone know if it’s possible to get a tactical vote flyer for your window?

    I want to put one up to show i’m tactic voting, to encourage others. Not seen any anywhere. i see labour and lib-dem flyers in people windows, and think another flier next to it saying “i’m Voting tactically” would help the cause.

    (the cause being to stop Boris) ;D

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    Not quite true.

    A responsible, competent govt can do that. The shower of crap we get (and are likely to get again) in this country I wouldn’t trust to run a bath.

    Yeah, when you hear all the vitriol aimed at our governments it’s a bit of a stretch to claim in the next breath they’d be just great at running an extra load of businesses. Especially since their like tried for decades and utterly ****ed it up.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    As if 40000 lefties could take over a political party of 400000 people

    They have. They have a majority on the NEC and changed the rules to reduce the number of nominations required from the PLP for new leaders. That’s it. Game over. They’ve taken over.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Not quite true.

    A responsible, competent govt can do that.

    Yeah that’s my point. A government CAN run a business well and for the benefit of the people. It IS possible, despite what Tories would have you believe banging on about 3 days weeks etc.

    Yeah, when you hear all the vitriol aimed at our governments it’s a bit of a stretch to claim in the next breath they’d be just great at running an extra load of businesses.

    Indeed, that’s why I didn’t say that. I said A GOVERNMENT COULD, not that any of the prospective candidates necessarily will. Why does no-one read properly on this thread?

    It’s a good thing to aim for, in my opinion, that’s why I’m voting for a party that wants to try. If we don’t keep trying, we’ll never succeed. After all, private industry gets to keep on trying, failing, and trousering all the cash doesn’t it?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Especially since their like tried for decades and utterly ****ed it up.

    Also, that was FORTY YEARS ago. It’s not the same people. And the proposals aren’t the same.

    Not only that, but neoliberalism is actually failing now too so why not direct some vitriol at that too?

    Northwind
    Full Member

    See what I mean?

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    I see the Staggers leader is fully supportive of the glorio…

    HOLD ON A MINUTE! To the gulag with them, perfidious right wing MSM scum!

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    but neoliberalism is actually failing now too so why not direct some vitriol at that too?

    I have 🙂

    It’s a complete clustercuss from one end to another; side to side

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I see the Staggers leader is fully supportive of the glorio…

    They seem to be voicing the concerns of a huge chunk of the country, by recommending no one, and hoping Boris doesn’t get a majority.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/election-2019/2019/12/leader-britain-deserves-better

    Vote for whoever can stop your seat returning a Conservative Brexit Party MP… whether that be an ex-Conservative independent even if you’re anti-Tory, a Labour Candidate even if you don’t trust Corbyn (he won’t get a majority anyway), a LibDem candidate even if Swinson makes you want to bunk off school, a Green candidate even if you consider them lefties, an SNP candidate even if you want Scotland to stay in the union… vote to stop your seat from helping Johnson get a majority. That’s all you can do, and all that matter this election.

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