Labour are scooping up lib dem votes

Yes they are. Last time that happened, it gave the Conservative party lots of seats. It all depends on how that pans out in very different seats in different parts of the UK. Hopefully it’ll mean Labour keep a reasonable seat count… but it’s also likely to give the Conservatives a majority of seats.

The people Jez surrounds himself with are hardly helping his public image…

You can only vote Labour by choosing to forget that the current leader chose a millionaire anti-European pro-Soviet Communist as an advisor. That’s what I’m doing.

Vote Labour. Ignore Murray.

Thank goodness for Danny Finkelstein…

After all, if it wasn’t for him, we wouldn’t have such an in depth record of the inside story of the events that led to such an explosive rift in the Conservative Party

@alcolepone @dannyh @binners

Sorry for the delay in answering your q’s. I’m an old girl although not old enough to vote in the original referendum and am disappointed that we still have the same two parties arguing. I do remember the 3 day week, the miners strike, power cuts etc. and sincerely hope that we won’t return to that at any time in the future. We’ve not moved forward as a United Kingdom although there has been attempts at new parties being formed. Bottom line is that we need a new system whether that be proportional representation or something else.

Cameron should never have been allowed to offer a vote to the public on a simple “yes” or “no”. I don’t know whether any Tories objected to this but it was utter stupidity and shouldn’t have been allowed to happen.

Moving on to the EU itself, I want to see a pared back EU with trustworthy info given on costings for each part. Yes, it’s definitely good for simplifying trading and don’t have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is that at some point in the future we could end up with a United States of Europe. I believe we should be making our own decisions instead of kowtowing to Brussels and that includes butting out of some issues.

I’m not “thick enough” to believe figures written on a bus nor believe Tory rhetoric but the bottom line is that some of the money we’re contributing to the EU is desperately needed in the UK. One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority. It’s horrific the numbers that are losing their lives each year and there is much work needing done to offer these youngsters a future, a future that includes employment and a belief that they can contribute to society and indeed be a valued member. A start would be to restore funding for youth workers and youth centres, these should not have been axed due to austerity.

Really, I believe that many are thoroughly disenchanted with politics and all the lies being spouted by politicians resulting in unconsidered voting, if they can be bothered in the first place that is.

but the bottom line is that some of the money we’re contributing to the EU is desperately needed in the UK. One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority.

pretty much every single economic analysis, including the governments own! shows that leaving the EU leaves us less well off, by considerably more than EU membership costs (<1% of GDP)

You can only vote Labour by choosing to forget that the current leader chose is a millionaire anti-European pro-Soviet Communist as an advisor.

This is the problem for Jezza. They’re not just advisers ,they’re fellow travellers. He shares their politics and their world view.

What I do have a problem with is that at some point in the future we could end up with a United States of Europe.

So how about leaving THEN if we don’t like it? Or simply vote against it, or use our veto. It seems at the moment, like the “EU army”, there is very little support for the idea amongst member states anyway.

pretty much every single economic analysis, including the governments own! shows that leaving the EU leaves us less well off, by considerably more than EU membership costs.

Current GDP is about £2 trillion. Net cost of EU about £10 billion (about 0.5% of GDP). My tax return from last year shows it cost me, personally, £64. Estimated loss of GDP post Brexit is 3-4%, depending on whether you use independent (lower figure) or government’s own estimate from 2018 (higher figure) in perpetuity. That’s a loss of £60-80 billion per annum.

Deduct saving through not paying EU membership = £50-70 billion per annum. So where does that extra money to combat knife crime, support the NHS, etc. come from?

@slowoldman, I’ll be doing my bit with the tactical voting here in Cheadle as well. Hoping the Labour candidate rocks up so I can ask him why he doesn’t withdraw to help kick Mrs Robinson out…

One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority.

If it were middle-class white kids in leafy suburbs getting knifed then they’d plough resources into it and stop it tomorrow. But it’s not, so they won’t.

Thats not EU priorities, those are Westminster priorities. They literally couldn’t care less about black kids getting knifed on sink estates. Just like they collectively shrugged after Grenfell. They don’t give a toss.

Whats mental is that its the EU has taken the money given to it by the UK and effectively redistributed it to the poorer areas of Britain that Westminster doesn’t even acknowledge exist, let alone fund. Built stuff for the people who don’t matter to our own MP’s.

Which is why it absolutely baffles me that deprived areas, covered in infrastructure bearing plaques ‘funded by the EU’ voted to leave. Do these people actually believe that the money no longer given to the EU is going to miraculously find its way to them instead? Not a cat in hells chance! It’ll find its way into the offshore bank accounts of their rich mates, one way or another

The same place all government money comes from.

Not always. Governments can make money from state-owned businesses. That’s why Norway is so rich – they kept their oil business and invested the profits, instead of flogging it off. So now the country is rich instead of some private individuals. Tell me again why nationalised industry is such a bad idea?

Tell me again why nationalised industry is such a bad idea?

Because not not every country has huge oil reserves?

It’s the same reason Scottish Water does well; they have a ridiculous amount of product that falls from the sky every day

I am a Brexit Remainer living in an overwhelmingly Remain constituency. Hilariously we just had the local Conservative candidate flyer through the door. The first line states ‘this election is not about Brexit’. Guess he knows what a hard sell his party’s commitments are around here. Hasn’t he read Boris’s memos?!!

As Molgrips has quite rightly moved this discussion to the other thread, I’ve replied likewise.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/1905/

Even if we were financially better off out of the EU the money won’t be spent on knife crime, giving people better futures etc,. That could be done right now if a government wanted to do it.

Remind me again, how many billions has brexit cost us already, with the square root of jeff all to show for it? Must be a few hospitals and coppers worth. And we’ve not left yet…

before it was nationalised it was less efficient than England’s system, now it cleaner, cheaper & less leakier than rest of UKs!

Although, amusingly, it’s not good enough to supply the Scottish Public sector:

In 2015, the Scottish Government chose Anglian Water to provide water management services to the public sector in Scotland in a £350m contract.

but the wider point is that a government can manage industrial resources for the benefit of its citizens…

Not quite true.

A responsible, competent govt can do that. The shower of crap we get (and are likely to get again) in this country I wouldn’t trust to run a bath.

And that includes Tory, Labout, SNP and all the ‘alternatives’. All are twunts of the same kidney

Bottom line is that we need a new system whether that be proportional representation or something else.

@c-g there was a referendum for that. It was defeated. The govt you get is therefore the govt you deserve.

Or something.

does anyone know if it’s possible to get a tactical vote flyer for your window?

I want to put one up to show i’m tactic voting, to encourage others. Not seen any anywhere. i see labour and lib-dem flyers in people windows, and think another flier next to it saying “i’m Voting tactically” would help the cause.

(the cause being to stop Boris) ;D

As if 40000 lefties could take over a political party of 400000 people

They have. They have a majority on the NEC and changed the rules to reduce the number of nominations required from the PLP for new leaders. That’s it. Game over. They’ve taken over.

Especially since their like tried for decades and utterly ****ed it up.

Also, that was FORTY YEARS ago. It’s not the same people. And the proposals aren’t the same.

Not only that, but neoliberalism is actually failing now too so why not direct some vitriol at that too?

I see the Staggers leader is fully supportive of the glorio…

HOLD ON A MINUTE! To the gulag with them, perfidious right wing MSM scum!

I see the Staggers leader is fully supportive of the glorio…

They seem to be voicing the concerns of a huge chunk of the country, by recommending no one, and hoping Boris doesn’t get a majority.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/election-2019/2019/12/leader-britain-deserves-better

Vote for whoever can stop your seat returning a Conservative Brexit Party MP… whether that be an ex-Conservative independent even if you’re anti-Tory, a Labour Candidate even if you don’t trust Corbyn (he won’t get a majority anyway), a LibDem candidate even if Swinson makes you want to bunk off school, a Green candidate even if you consider them lefties, an SNP candidate even if you want Scotland to stay in the union… vote to stop your seat from helping Johnson get a majority. That’s all you can do, and all that matter this election.