[Closed] 11spd XTR - BOOOOM

Having seen all the leaks it's like opening a birthday present when you'd already had a good look at it when you found it hidden at the bottom of their wardrobe.

It's what I expected but there's a sense of disappointment too.

That is a hideous crankset. Last seen as a particularily bad wheel choice on a vw golf.

Dear Shimano, all we actually wanted was a bigger 10-speed cassette. That'd give us practically all of the benefits, for £40. Instead you've given us a smaller gear range than I already have using existing parts. So you can stick your 11-speed up your arse. Too late, too expensive, too pointless.

Last seen as a particularily bad wheel choice on a vw golf.

that's exactly what I thought! reminded me of old-skool aftermarket VW Beetle alloys.
but my response was "oooo, rather nice".

I agree on the 11 speed though.

Side swing is interesting, pity I've not had a front mech on a mtb for about 6 years

10sp or 11sp 40t rear cassette in Slx price/flavour please Mr Shimano

That crank does look odd, it looks heavy and like something you'd find on a supermarket bike.

Failing to get excited about any of the rest. SRAM FTW.

[quote=Northwind]That is a hideous crankset. Last seen as a particularily bad wheel choice on a vw golf.

I'm going to wait until they do a Ronal Teddy Bear version...

22/40 😛

Feels like a bit of a "we know better than our customers" fail to me.

That chainset, I wonder how the chainrings attach? Can't see any obvious bolts. All looks a bit proprietary to me which would put me off.

Also thought we were getting a Di2 option with the new XTR?

What northwind said ugly cranks (not that I particularly GAS about looks) and spectacularly missed the boat not doing at the very least 11-42 if not 10-42.

All looks a bit proprietary to me which would put me off

22-30-40t

[i]spectacularly missed the boat not doing at the very least 11-42 if not 10-42[/i]

but keeping it fitting existing freehub standards will probably lead to a wider take up when this filters down to XT and SLX in the next couple of years?

but keeping it fitting existing freehub standards will probably lead to a wider take up

and they are fannying around with enough standards so keeping this one (which is probably overdue and upgrade - alloy freehub mangling) is daft

At the heart of Shimano’s M9000 and M9020 groups is the concept of rhythm and range. One can easily see that Shimano’s 1x system doesn’t have the spread of their competitor;s wide range cassette, but in typical Shimano fashion the M9000 is all about system engineering and producing the most efficient drivetrain possible. Everyone wants to know about the 1x option of the new XTR so we’ll start with the new HG-X11 11-40 cassette.

And out with the Bull and the SHIT really early

edit...
heavy cranks, not carbon, no proper range and still using/selling a front mech

so, to get around the narrow freehub, they've made a dinnerplate big cog and bent it around the spokes?
I'll stick to my 32 x 11-32 9-spd thanks,

sorry but shimano lost out to SRAM on this, missed a massive massive amount of sales due to xx1 and will continue to do so IMO

xx1 looks better, relatively cheap (compared to even current xtr 10speed stuff), and it just works

the new xtr cranks look truly awful, massive step sideways given there are already hope 40t/one up 40t rings on the market, how on earth is that going to be a gain over just adjusting your current 10speed to a hope 40t or similar?!

Chainset inspiration from 90's BMW alloys?

[img] [/img]

Fair point, the cranks would look alright on a beetle.

Shimano feels that if you need more range than the 1x system you are better off with the new Trail 2x crank which offers drastically improved performance, especially from the front derailleur.

SRAM must be having a bloody good laugh about this 🙂

The salient points for me are:

[i]Rather than using a narrow-wide design made popular by many manufacturers, Shimano created teeth that are wider and taller than the standard tooth and also includes a hook to the front, all of which helps keep the chain in check.[/i] Sounds interesting (in a good way).

and [i]one of the main benefits of the cassettes is that it fits on standard Shimano freehub bodies without any new parts.[/i] This has to be a good thing especially when (as pointed out above) it trickles down to XT/ SLX/ Deore level.

EDIT: I would also expect that the XT/ SLX/ Deore level cassettes will have an 11-42t option.

Am I the only one who is actually looking forward to trying this out? Sure you can bodge a 10 speed set up to have the same or greater range, but it's just that, a bodge. This will trickle down to xt/slx within the next year, and if the pricing is similar to what it is now it will be a bargain at those levels. Keeps the standard freehub which is nice and I personally don't think the chainset looks all that bad, pretty sure people said the same about the last gen xtr cranks when they were launched...

plus XTR is aimed at the XC racer to start off with (not weekend warrior), and presently i bet 9/10 racers are already running xx1, so doubt very much they will go to xtr and lose the 42t and 10t

doesnt make much sense, they may as well have just stuck with 10speed, but made a nice new cassette instead

and ill say it again, that crankset is absolutly gopping!

Crankset actually looks a bit better in [url= ]these photos[/url].

Still wondering where the Di2 is?

Rather than using a narrow-wide design made popular by many manufacturers, Shimano created teeth that are wider and taller than the standard tooth and also includes a hook to the front, all of which helps keep the chain in check. Sounds interesting (in a good way).

This ^^ would have sounded interesting if the current glut of NW chainrings didn't do the job very well already.

reckon I'll be keeping atleast one double chainset for the foreseeable so new F mech technology is a plus, assuming they don't wear out even faster than bottom swing mechs (top swing lasted for ever) which I'll admit is a massive feat of optimism on my part.

EDIT: I would also expect that the XT/ SLX/ Deore level cassettes will have an 11-42t option.

could you not just use your existing 10 speed crank and just buy 11 speed cassette, derailer, chain and shifter?

I like the idea of 34 up front and 11-40 at the rear. i suppose i could that for less with a t-rex sprocket.

lawman91 - Member

Am I the only one who is actually looking forward to trying this out? Sure you can bodge a 10 speed set up to have the same or greater range, but it's just that, a bodge.

What's bodgy about it? Have you used it?

What's bodgy about it? Have you used it?

I personally haven't but a few folks at the LBS have been using the Hope adapters and while shifting is acceptable they say they a)miss the 17t cog and b) shifting in the lower cogs can be a little less smooth on some bike/mech set ups. It's a good option no doubt, but given the choice I'd rather have something designed for the purpose. Current mechs were never designed for 40/42t cassettes, makes me wonder of the long term effects it could have on them. It's all well if it works for a few months but in a years time if the mechs scrap it's not great imo. As I personally I haven't tried, but I'm kinda sceptical for now.

If Shimano had released XT or SLX 11 soeed first I doubt any of us would be having this conversation though!

could you not just use your existing 10 speed crank and just buy 11 speed cassette, derailer, chain and shifter?

Of course you could. XTR is going to be expensive, whether it's 11 speed, 10 speed 7 speed... you get the idea. It will trickle down soon.

lawman91 - Member

I personally haven't but a few folks at the LBS have been using the Hope adapters and while shifting is acceptable they say they a)miss the 17t cog and b) shifting in the lower cogs can be a little less smooth on some bike/mech set ups

They should change the cog then, it costs a couple of quid. I can't speak for the Hope but the shifting on the OnOne is just as good as standard (it sounds a little worse onto the 42 but it shifts clean and crisp, on and off)

presently i bet 9/10 racers are already running xx1, so doubt very much they will go to xtr and lose the 42t and 10t

It's not that universal actually, single ring is prolific certainly, but plenty are just using 11-36 cassettes.

This will be hugely popular I'm sure, I'm not convinced you'll get people with XX1 selling up and moving over, but I'm not seeing it as "a lanslide victory for SRAM".

It's not that universal actually, single ring is prolific certainly, but plenty are just using 11-36 cassettes.

This will be hugely popular I'm sure, I'm not convinced you'll get people with XX1 selling up and moving over, but I'm not seeing it as "a lanslide victory for SRAM".

Absolutely this. I've never been a fan of Sram shifting, it feels pretty cheap compared to Shimano imo, even the few XX1 groups I've tried, while the range is great, it felt no better than my XT setup, if not slightly more vague. Comes down to preference I guess, I'd happily give up a bit of range for a shift feel I'm happy with, plus as I'm currently running a 34-11/36 setup any extra range is good in my book!

This will be hugely popular I'm sure, I'm not convinced you'll get people with XX1 selling up and moving over, but I'm not seeing it as "a lanslide victory for SRAM".

Having a Di2 option would help tip the scales a little more too 🙂

According to what I've read on this here website, XX1 has sold EIGHT times as much as expected.

That's a massive market share loss for XTR, whatever way you cut it. Dunno how may XX1 users there are on this site, but I'd be surprised if less than half of them were on Shimano before going XX1. (Go on, tell us, you lot)

Don't see this winning back market share for them. Apart from not needing a new freehub, there's nothing here. It's not even desirable to look at.

It's not that universal actually, single ring is prolific certainly, but plenty are just using 11-36 cassettes.

This will be hugely popular I'm sure, I'm not convinced you'll get people with XX1 selling up and moving over, but I'm not seeing it as "a lanslide victory for SRAM".

im using an XX 11-36 cassette with an XX1 front ring and XTR rear mech. Think i will stick with what I have until i get old / unfit etc, at which point I will give up cycling and play cricket instead. 😀

That chainset, gopping!

And it's been said but Shimano definately seem to have missed the point, there not actually offering much over what can be achieved with a pretty good bodge for an awful lot less money.

And to reiterate, that chainset, gopping.

I'm one who has an XX1/X01 setup, and have run it for a fair while now. Its probably wasted on me as I rarely use the 10T and haven't used the 42T anywhere near as much as I thought.

I also am one who dislikes the cheap feel to the SRAM shifting. The rear mech is typical SRAM, play everywhere, although to be fair, it does still shift.

11-40 would probably give me a more usable range that's beneficial to me. But then I may as well stick to a 10spd setup and get the bits nice & cheap 🙂

The 1x market isn't that big, although i'm a convert there are many, many multiples of people who still run a front mech.

According to what I've read on this here website, XX1 has sold EIGHT times as much as expected.

That's a massive market share loss for XTR, whatever way you cut it

No it isn't, 1) I'd not believe everything on here and 2) even assume it's totally true it's meaningless without the context.

If they planned to sell 10 groupsets and actually sold eighty, that's 8 times as many as expected, means **** all! You don't know how many of them were XTR customers, how many would have bought an identical groupset if it said XTR on it etc etc.

The fixation with '1x' is apparently quite a UK based phenomenon, the OEM market is colossal and a lot of people plum don't like SRAM. This will be a huge success for Shimano. Odd there's not even a mention of Di2 though it must be said.

I suspect they'll 'prove' the technology with manual shift before adapting to electric - same as they did with road.

All the negativity will pass when Di2 XTR and the awesome looking carbon XTR wheels get officially released. Not sure either are for me but I reckon it'll generate more interest and excitement in XTR that is missing from this release.

Also, Pinkbike noted the products they were allowed access to were last generation prototypes and 3D printed mock ups rather than the production versions so things may change aesthetically.

The 1x curved ring profile is something I've been waiting for someone to try for a while (like the FSA Megatooth which hasn't made it to shops so far) and the 11 speed on a normal freehub is a massive plus. Can't ignore the engineering and quality approach of Shimano and hopefully it'll keep the more robust and solid feel compared to SRAM.

Don't feel 11-40 is a massive difference to most people either compared to 10-42 although it'll be perceived as such.

.... so... some positives amongst the feeling of disappointment

The fixation with '1x' is apparently quite a UK based phenomenon, the OEM market is colossal and a lot of people plum don't like SRAM. This will be a huge success for Shimano. Odd there's not even a mention of Di2 though it must be said.

I wouldn't touch sram with a barge pole, in fact last bike I bought, I could have bought the "better" model but didn't because it used Sram! It is over priced, not very durable and horrifically expensive if you start breaking it.

as for Di2, I suspect what you are seeing is Shimano leaking information. There are pictures of XTR Di2 on the net, I wouldn't be surprised if Sea Otter reveals a bit more?

As for 1x, i am not overly fond of gaps between gears.

Actually I think that looks better than the catalogue shots.

Front mech looks very neat, not sure how the front cable entry would work with typical hardtail cable routing, with a stop on the seat-tube?

Rear mech appears to have the clutch switch the other way round, so it's tucked out of the way when on.

Older angular xtr chainsets looked much better, but it looks like the curviest parts of the new one are plastic covers over the chainring bolts.

I like Shimano stuff but I think they're going to struggle to shift that.

Crankset - Not very attractive (certainly not up to current high standards) and no narrow wide ring - it [i]might[/i] work 99% but N/W is proven tech people are comfortable with and that looks like a really worn ring - chainsuck anyone? Of course they wouldn't lower themselves to copying SRAM and they wouldn't get a license from SRAM for it anyway.

Range - While it's noble to try and accommodate existing standards and clever to use the inside space around the spokes to get the extra cog in, by not going to 10 and 42 they're missing a huge amount of capacity to SRAM. 10-42 has 10% more range at the top and 5% at the bottom than 11-40 and that's huge.

People WANT to go 1x10/11 these days with as little compromise as possible and Shimano just don't seem to get that. It's like they're clinging onto the idea of selling front derailleurs or something. Why else would they be developing new front mech technology and offering a triple in their flagship groupset? Surely no-one has bought one of those things for years? Certainly very few will have done so and not stripped all the rings off and put a single on there.

Too slow and to stuck in their ways - a real shame as it's beautifully engineered stuff that's well made and lasts.

Having said that I doubt I'll be buying just because you have to fit a long age mech to make it work and I think they look sh!t. I'll stick with my franken 9-speed SRAMano 34/11-34 setup for now and pedal a bit harder or get off and push.

As Njee says 1x seems to be a very uk thing, but the fact is some people just aren't fit enough for 1x. Yes it has its advantages outside of gear range but if it isn't for you, it isn't for you. I see people running 26t chainrings and I think why the hell don't you just put dual ring on it? I think Shimano are trying to say that in a way, if you don't have the legs for 1x, don't use it rather than Sram trying to sell the 1x thing to everyman and his dog.

just to throw into the mix, small sprockets in theory will wear more. You save weight at the expense of durability. Real world not sure how different this will be.

going from an 11 to a 10 sprocket should make for a rougher drivetrain and increase the wear. One of the reasons Shimano changed the chain pitch for there track kit (it failed but hey ho)

Small chainring more wear, small sprockets more wear.
The more you find yourself in small sprockets the more of an issue this becomes.

So the M9000 chainset without BB weighs 640gm ,cost a load and look shite,

My hand polished and slightly modified LX cranks with a Raceface NW chainring and bolts weighs ...............wait for it..............640gm according to my digital scales and cost a whole lot less.

Pretty certain looking at those pics that the moulded chainring arms are covers on the M9000 2 ring set up, wouldnt surprise me if they use standard chainring bolts that screw in from the rear through the chainrings and then into those covers which act as the nut of a normal chain ring bolt set up(all IMO of course)

I bet the rear mech redesign will work with 42t no problem.

Also, I notice they've abandoned 24 spoke wheels.

I like Shimano stuff but I think they're going to struggle to shift that.

No chance!

[s]People [/s] Trail riders in the UK WANT to go 1x10/11 these days with as little compromise as possible and Shimano just don't seem to get that.

FTFY. Enduro/XC racers will be happy with what's available, it's a small minority of people who will truly see this as a downfall. To think that they'll struggle to sell it purely because there's a couple of teeth difference on the cassette is laughable IMO!

Yep, our drivetrain desires are pretty niche compared to the rest of the world. Everyone here seems to want to ride 1x if they can afford it for all types of riding whereas most of the rest of the world see it as a very expensive, unnecessary "enduro" thing. Looking at the big picture I doubt Shimano are worried.

11-40 on XTR 1x wouldn't put me off a Shimano 1x drivetrain in the slightest compared to XX1. Reliability and feel are far bigger deciding factors for me.

I never thought I'd say it but if there was a super smooth front mech with the front entry cable.... or a very well hidden cable.... mmmmm... could be even tempted back to 2x.... uh oh, it sounds like I'm leaning towards Di2 XTR which I repeatedly labelled as pointless in the past 😯 It is the cables, clunkiness and mud collection I despite about front mechs... solve that and I'm happy 😀

So what are the chances of the 11 speed XTR shifters and cassette working with a 10 speed mech?

Guys, it has a Shallow Slant Parallelogram, how could you not want one!?

Personally, I ride 1x10 so obviously 1x11 appeals to me, however justifying the cost is something I could not do yet. 2-3 years down the line when it has trickled down then yes I'd love an extra gear on the block and would upgrade.

I can't imagine the triple chain set being very popular, double yes but I'm 1x10 now until I splash for the 11 block set up and will continue to run a single chainring then too.

So what are the chances of the 11 speed XTR shifters and cassette working with a 10 speed mech?

Precisely zero I'll wager.

DanW - Member

Don't feel 11-40 is a massive difference to most people either compared to 10-42 although it'll be perceived as such.

40 to 42 is a pretty small difference but 10 to 11 is- it's almost the difference between a 32 and a 36 chainring and I don't think anyone'd fail to notice that.

The problem here is basically with doubles and triples. I'm not saying they're not a good idea- half my bikes are still double. But the truth is, they already work brilliantly, adding an extra ring on the cassette doesn't add a thing to that, nor does adding a bigger rear cassette to give a wider range- triples, doubles even, already have a huge range. Few people choose 11-36 cassettes on a triple as it stands.

The front mech is nice, and the wider range cassette is nice, and so we can probably look forward to that being an 11-speed exclusive even though they're completely backwards-compatible, just like clutch mechs and 11-36 cassettes, in order to try and drive us to buy new things.

Oh and is anyone else thinking "that gear cable won't actually fit my bike"?

The FD was the most interesting thing in the new XTR groupset. Looks promising.

just to throw into the mix, small sprockets in theory will wear more. You save weight at the expense of durability. Real world not sure how different this will be.

40 to 42 is a pretty small difference but 10 to 11 is- it's almost the difference between a 32 and a 36 chainring and I don't think anyone'd fail to notice that.

True but it the overall range that matters. If you run a 36T with the 11-40 to have the same top end speed as a 32T and 10-42 then you are basically giving away one gear on the climbs (equivalent to 32/36). Stick a 34T on XTR and 32T on XX1 and the differences at either end average out and you lose roughly half a gear at each end. In terms of speed, this means 0.5mph quicker (or cadence has to reduce) at 80rpm climbing on XTR vs XX1 and 0.8 mph quicker at the top end on XX1 at 100rpm vs XTR. Minimal differences IMO.

The problem here is basically with doubles and triples. I'm not saying they're not a good idea- half my bikes are still double. But the truth is, they already work brilliantly, adding an extra ring on the cassette doesn't add a thing to that, nor does adding a bigger rear cassette to give a wider range- triples, doubles even, already have a huge range. Few people choose 11-36 cassettes on a triple as it stands.

So long as they offer other ratio options then the triple and double users will be well catered for. It would be daft to offer 11-40 only and I'd imagine 11-32/ 34/ 36 will be available.

looks like a missed opportunity to me.

I'll go back to waiting for SRAM xx1/x01 to drop in price/trickle down, which probably wont happen now there no competition from shimano.

Yep, but what I'm getting at there is that 11-speed isn't really bringing much new to triples, and certainly nothing that requires 11 speeds. So it feels like change for its own sake from that point of view, if you're not going big with the 1x11 options like SRAM, it gets harder to justify the change at all when 10-speed can do everything you're doing with 11.

I think it'll sell like hotcakes to people who have to have the latest thing, and everyone else in the world will go "Why would I buy this? I only just bought 10 speed"

Still curious about the front mech, is this effectively a new cable routing standard? I don't think I've ever had a bike where the cable route would work well with the front-exit.

A lot of the changes there should make wider range 1x a lot easier. Offset mech cage should mean they can stick an 11-42 mech out with xt. Hell, why not an 11-44? Fingers crossed.

More interested really in if this will play with 11 speed road. This cassette and mech with the new hydraulic\ mechanical shifters on the cross bike? They can take my money

11 speed and triple is just daft, I agree. But then so is anything over 11-32 IMO. To be honest why would you have a triple over a sensibly chosen ratio set on a double? Agree 11 speed is somewhat for the sake of it for doubles too but it makes sense on the 1 by configuration (with only minor concessions to 10-42 in terms of range as above) and, probably most importantly, paves the way for a very slick choice of ratios with pretty small jumps between gears when Di2 XTR hits.

I really like the idea of a wider range than XX1 via a double chainset but with the shifting electronics configured to shift up or down to the next gear with nearest gain ratio to the current one- even if it means a front mech shift too. Some people have already achieved this on Di2 (and report it is a slick as a rear mech change only) although it would be a nice standard option and the tighter spacing with 11 speed starts to make a little more sense perhaps

I say that knowing it almost certainly won't.

More interested really in if this will play with 11 speed road. This cassette and mech with the new hydraulic\ mechanical shifters on the cross bike? They can take my money

Doesn't sound like it since the MTB version works on a standard 9/10 speed freehub whereas the road version (and XX1) requires a wider freehub body to fit the gears in. I'd guess this new XTR has slightly smaller gaps between sprockets in that case but I don't think there is definitive info on this yet

Doesn't sound like it since the MTB version works on a standard 9/10 speed freehub whereas the road version (and XX1) requires a wider freehub body to fit the gears in. I'd guess this new XTR has slightly smaller gaps between sprockets in that case but I don't think there is definitive info on this yet

read the statement, the big sprocket on the cassette is dished, so the same free hub as 10spd but because the sprocket is big it can be "bent" towards the spokes.

Fair enough, there might be hope then!

[url= http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/04/11/first-look-all-new-shimano-xtr-m9000-race-trail-brakes-plus-new-carbon-wheels/ ]New brakes and wheels are up[/url]

Nothing here to make me rethink my plans for XX1. Having said that I'm a SRAM fan, and would be sticking with XX if it wasn't for the clutch and narrow/wide.

Oh, and that chainset is really nasty.

That wheelset is such a waste, 275g rims and a 1300g wheelset weight! Should have been at least 100g lighter!

One thing i do expect to see is more and more manufacturers moving to 1x to simplify (and help reduce costs) the design of their suspension platform. Ditching the front mech (no mount/seat tube clearance required), fixing the chain line with regard to the suspension kinematics, and allowing more width for stiffer/stronger main triangle/chain stay interface etc

fixing the chain line with regard to the suspension kinematics

Dave Weagle makes some good points about why doubles or triples can help sus bikes and work well with many bikes that use anti-squat.
http://dw-link.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/single-chainrings-and-detrimental.html

If you're crap enough to really need a 42t over a 40t, then I'm pretty sure XTR isn't aimed at your capabilities.

But will it work with a raceface narrow wide ring stuck on my old xt chainset. And can we buy just the rear shifter. If so. Sold. To me

DanW - Member

Fair enough, there might be hope then!

New brakes and wheels are up

Yet another cycle company turning it's back on 26"

But will it work with a raceface narrow wide ring stuck on my old xt chainset. And can we buy just the rear shifter. If so. Sold. To me

I'd be highly surprised if you couldn't!

Yet another cycle company turning it's back on 26"

Carbon tubular is 29 only too. Seems reasonably fair enough although you'd hope to still see 26 at XT level (not that there's anything about Shimano wheels to make me buy them over a Stans build)

doof_doof - Member
If you're crap enough to really need a 42t over a 40t, then I'm pretty sure XTR isn't aimed at your capabilities.

Interesting hearing some more thoughts, I don't think 1x is just a UK think it's getting very common in Tassie/Oz from what I'm seeing. As 11-40 can be done without all the expense of a full groupset I can't see it being too popular. The best thing about 1x is no front mech, polishing the turd still doesn't help, you can make it shift perfectly and it's still there adding weight. If you can do the range of 2x with 1x then why bother with the front mech. Not going to be lining up for 3x11 either 🙂

A lot of people are talking about a 42t rear but not seen any sign of that anywhere, is it not possible that they couldn't make it shift right without copying the SRAM rear mech?

I don't mind the cranks. They don't look as nice as the ones they've replaced but they look better than so e of the Sram cranks.

If I was in the market for a top end groupset, I'd go XX1 but I'm one of the rare Sram fans on here (my stuff lasts well and I like the clunky shift...the modern XT stuff I've tried is too vague). The main reason for XX1 in my eyes is that's its a dedicated 1x set up. I rarely miss the front mech and I like the extra room fir a Reverb lever under the bars where my shifter would have been. I think it is a missed opportunity because more and more bikes seem to be getting spec'd with XO1 and XX1.

The likes of Santa Cruz have just released a bike that can't be run with a front mech. If they've judged this right like they did with 650b, I'm guessing it won't be long before more companies do it because it helps with packaging which is important with bigger wheels.

I think that'll be people comparing with the OneUp 42T 10-speed option, which shifts pretty damn well- maybe not quite as good as standard, but not far off. Mostly it's just a pain in the arris to set up.

I though that was the case, not launching with 42t is a clear intent not to do it, add in the 3x options and Shimano are dedicated to smaller range rear cassettes and multiple chain rings. I wonder how long it will take for someone to do some NW chain rings in the special BCD (wonder if Sram will do some for a laugh)

Part of the reason SRAM gave up on front mechs is that they're rubbish at making them.. New DA or ultegra pretty much teleports the chain from one ring to the next. I'd expect this to be as good.
It's nice to see the return of the Ti chainring teeth.. I've still got a 970 chainset which has been through at least 10 chains (obsessively changed!) and still works well.
2x and 3x systems are always going to be more durable. More sprockets driving, and less time in the favourites due to the smaller jumps.
Front mechs aren't cool, but Shimano are Japanese.. They run to a different cool to you lot anyway.

sort of touched on above couple of people mentioned CX's
(AKA drop bar hybrid/gravel racer)

interested in the ST-RS685 hydraulic STI's just announced as my current STI's are getting past their best - currently running 9speed triple MTB stuff so going to 11 speed road would mean 2 new wheel sets(1 for wide tyres stuff, 1 for all road) and one reason for going to disk's was to avoid wearing out rims and having to rebuild wheels!

so do you think the pull ratios for the new XTR mech will work with the new 11speed road hydraulic shifters?

I guess then there is a capacity issue to run a compact on the front with say a 48-34 still I'm enthusing that I may not have to buy new wheels to upgrade to 11speed compact

maxtorque - Member
One thing i do expect to see is more and more manufacturers moving to 1x to simplify (and help reduce costs) the design of their suspension platform. Ditching the front mech (no mount/seat tube clearance required), fixing the chain line with regard to the suspension kinematics, and allowing more width for stiffer/stronger main triangle/chain stay interface etc

And therefore limiting the bikes appeal to the enduro/competitive XC/ wanna-be market as previously mentioned, can't see it myself.

Back on topic, I rather like the new stuff

And therefore limiting the bikes appeal to the enduro/competitive XC/ wanna-be market as previously mentioned, can't see it myself.

What seems to be the problem for SRAM and 10-42 is letting people know it just about the same range as 2x10
[img] [/img]
Unless your a die hard triple rider then 1x11 (10-42) covers the bases that 2x10 used to.

^ narrower, but a good range for those that know their fitness or terrain. And for people debating whether 1x11 is ok for them on longer or more hilly rides, 2x11 with a 40T rear has a greater range. Choice is good )

It's so personal to rider, terrain etc. Shimano's assumption is that people want to stay in a 60-90rpm cadence, but there are both strong out-of-saddle SS-type climbers and spinners so many tend to gear based on that. Given a long enough ride or steep, techy enough hills (esp at altitude) we all become spinners eventually and pushing a slightly too-high gear uphill wears you out faster.

^ I don't think many people would be running 24/36 with an 11-36 cassette though.

A better comparison is probably the 28/42 (max range you can get away with without shifting getting iffy) with an 11-36 cassette.

28-36 is pretty much identical to 32-42, so the easy gears stay the same. 32-10 is 83 gear inches, 42-11 is 99. So what you gain is another 5mph at the top end at 100rpm.

With an 11-40 cassette you could run a 30-44 double and keep the same easy gear but not spin out until around 30mph instead.

The only real question is do you often pedal at 24mph and feel the need to be able pedal beyond that to 29-30+mph? Probably not in fairness although what got me thinking about a double was being overtaken by a lot of people on a long, non-technical descent as I'd spun out on XX1 in a recent race. Rare that this kind of situation arises though and by and large the XX1 range is adequate.

The only real question is do you often pedal at 24mph and feel the need to be able pedal beyond that to 29-30+mph? Probably not in fairness although what got me thinking about a double was being overtaken by a lot of people on a long, non-technical descent as I'd spun out on XX1 in a recent race. Rare that this kind of situation arises though and by and large the XX1 range is adequate.

comes down to whether you have to ride on the road IMO, if you never ride fire roads, tarmac etc then a low high gear isn't an issue, if you do then it soon becomes one. Other thing to mention, on rough ground i tend to slow the cadence, and push a bigger gear, and find the 40x11 i have on the low side.