“if you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere”

I’d like to watch someone rock up to immigration in just about any country in the world sans passport and/or visa, and state, in an imperious manner, “I am a citizen of the world, let me in”, and see what happens.
It’s a fantasy that exists in the minds of some who imagine that all nation states can just tear down their borders and co-exist forever.
Human nature proves that ain’t going to happen.

Human nature showed we kept slaves and raped and pillaged etc.

It changes though some folk cite it to defend the most odious aspects of our character that can be changed all be it slowly

Human nature is unpredictable. Borders come and go. Who can say what is possible? Only those with no imagination are satisfied with what already exists.

RichPenny – Member
Human nature is unpredictable. Borders come and go. Who can say what is possible? Only those with no imagination are satisfied with what already exists.

A massive +1

Only those with no imagination are satisfied with what already exists.

There’s at least 16 million of them in this country.

Her speech was largely received as a play for the centre ground – even sounding a lot like Milliband around the role for a bigger state, but within the same speech there’s comments like this, which sound horribly parochial and anti-foreign

Why would that be confusing? Left and Right are only sides of the room – it’s perfectly possible to mix and match on different issues. Being say, pro big government doesn’t automatically make you pro gay marriage or pro immigration and so on.

Nazi party was into big government AFAIK.

Nazi party was into big government AFAIK.

They were a socialist party, so of course. 😀

Left and right are utterly meaningless these days. Particularly with the left now embracing antisemitism and traditional left voters moving to UKIP.

^^^^ HAHAH they were socialist in name only.

Capitalism: People working for the owners of wealth with profits going to the owners of companies, balanced by market demands and conflict between labor and capitalists.

Marxist Socialism: People working for communal gain with profits (in a manner of speaking) shared by everyone who is working, driven by market demands.

National Socialism: People working for the good of the country with profits going to the owners of companies, driven by the needs of the state with all conflict between classes suppressed by a heavy-handed state.

@Tom_W1987, what May proposed sounds awfully like the third of your definitions.

There’s at least 16 million of them in this country.

I thought it was 17 million, suffering from lack of imagination wedded to overbearing nostalgia.

It’s often useful to look things up and find out what they mean- this can stop you from looking daft for using wrong definitions. From the Oxford dictionary:

citizen of the world

A person who is at home in any country.
‘he has long since ceased to be a provincial and is now very much a citizen of the world’

Right, now we all know what it means, everyone talking about passports, border control etc can stop it.

@Tom_W1987, what May proposed sounds awfully like the third of your definitions.

Yup and that’s why I’m scared – some suggested reading.

– The Hitler Myth – Ian Kershaw
– Hitler: A Study in Tyranny – Alan Bullock
– The German Dictatorship – Karl Dietrich Bracher
– State of Deception: The Power of Nazi Propaganda – Edward Phillips
– The True Believer – Eric Hoffer (This above anything else)
– The Portage to San Cristobal of A.H. – George Steiner (decent insights into the use of language)
– Goebells – Peter Longerich

May is playing an old game, that is easy to sport if you are wise to her use of language.

onewheelgood

Does the first paragraph sound familiar as well? (wiki on The Hitler Myth).

In the book, Kershaw explores a concept he calls the “Hitler Myth that describes two key points in Nazi ideology that depict Adolf Hitler as a demagogue figure and as a mighty defender.[1][2] In the demagogue aspect Hitler is presented as a figure that embodies and shapes the German people, giving him a mandate to rule. As a defender, he is depicted as defending Germany against its enemies and redressing the imbalance imposed by the Treaty of Versailles. These were essential elements of propaganda of the time and helped to ‘plaster over’ early cracks in the Nazi Regime’s facade, though by no means de-fusing all tensions in Germany at that time.

The myth of Hitler as the saviour of Germany from conspiracies directed against it by the Soviet Union and the West—especially France—was an extremely powerful tool in binding together the German people in loyalty and submission. The German people were left embittered by the ineffective and unstable party politics of Weimar Germany which had failed to rescue its people from the humiliation administered by Europe at the close of the First World War.

Thus, as Kershaw states,

“Hitler stood for at least some things they [German people] admired, and for many had become the symbol and embodiment of the national revival which the Third Reich had in many respects been perceived to accomplish.”[3]

May sends **** shivers down my spine. She reminds me of the famous quote from The Portage to San Cristobal of A.H. – “there shall come a man whose mouth shall be as a furnace and whose tongue as a sword laying waste. He will know the grammar of hell and teach it to others. He will know the sounds of madness and loathing and make them seem music. Where God said, let there be, he will unsay.”

Funny aint it

All you middle class had to do, was to allow some of the benefits of “coach ticket” migration to filter down to the working class rather than grasping them all to your selves…

What? Brace yourself for disappoint in your new British people first world…

Some quick backtracking there rich penny.
Tom you are sounding unwell.

I don’t think so, we’re seeing a resurgent right throughout the west – Trump, Le Pen and May who are all dancing to the same old tired tune, the scary thing with May is that she can dress the divisive rhetoric up in a pretence of respectability. Kershaw states at the end of the book, that his book is a warning to all modern developed nations – we’ve forgotten the lessons of history – the only time we ever give thought to those times are when we’re feeling jingoistic about killing Germans. We had a violent backlash against immigrants after the Brexit vote and now May, instead of deciding to reign this in – has decided to let the cat out of the bag. The longer this kind of rhetoric goes on for, the greater the risk that her rhetoric becomes a run away feedback loop.

Hmm.. no-one seems to be discussing the benefits of migration to the actual migrants. Almost as if they don’t matter somehow…

@Countzero indeed, they’d have as much chance at passport control with Citizen of the World as you’d have in a job interview with a certificate from The University of Life

British Citizenship will once again mean what it means to every other country in the world outside the European Union.

Citizenship profers rights and responsibilities unique to that country and determined by it.

Hmm.. no-one seems to be discussing the benefits of migration to the actual migrants. Almost as if they don’t matter somehow…

Absolutely of benefit to them which is why the Government of the day should choose the best on which to give that

It’s a fantasy that exists in the minds of some who imagine that all nation states can just tear down their borders and co-exist forever.
Human nature proves that ain’t going to happen.

That would be what we just voted to leave….

Citizenship profers rights and responsibilities unique to that country and determined by it.

Be they good or bad? Bit antiquated isn’t it? What if we aspired to give all people the same rights a day responsibility. Ambitious but the right thing to do.

British Citizenship will once again mean what it means to every other country in the world outside the European Union.

No…. I rather suspect that British citizenship will take on an entirely new meaning worldwide. Although I suspect many of our ex colonies in warmer climes already hold that view.

Absolutely of benefit to them which is why the Government of the day should choose the best on which to give that

As in we only let in the ones who will primarily benefit “us” not those who will initially benefit themselves but may become valued?

Some quick backtracking there rich penny.

Only if you didn’t follow what I wrote. Seems odd to align remaining in the EU with inertia, given the amount of change over the last 40 years.

Nobody has aligned inertia with being a member of the EU, times have changed so apply your words.. The statement fits many different situations but you want them to only be used to confirm your own bias

Human nature is unpredictable. Borders come and go. Who can say what is possible? Only those with no imagination are satisfied with what already exists.

Doesn’t it apply today?

I think ultimately this phrase is a huge mistake by May

shes just insulted 48% of the country

At a time when BSers are all insisting that we should muck in together and make a success of Brexit (coz fixing your shit is our job, right?) she comes out with divisive statements like this.

Not a good start to her premiereship

Can I take this opportunity to call her an evil **** bitch?

shes just insulted 48% of the country

She’s a Tory, she doesn’t give a flying f*** about 95% of the country. It’s not like she was elected PM to do this, she’s basically an appointed dictator. Labour aren’t in a position to stop her and won’t be in four years either.

It’s exactly the start to her premiership I expected from the woman who introduced the “go home” poster vans.

mikewsmith – Member
Some people are the future a different some are the past. The future has no borders

I believe that children are our future, teach them well and let them lead the way…..

It’s exactly the start to her premiership I expected from the woman who introduced the “go home” poster vans.

It is interesting that media in the weeks following her appointment were trying to present her as some great “unknown” and suggesting that her views were somehow hidden.

Another nice thing that is going on is allowing councils to opt out of child protection laws:

to hell with vulnerable children

The funding that is being cut to the NHS for health visitors, 40% cut in my NHS trust, none of the other services related to the health visitors are aware, complete reshaping of the service provided so there will be many more Baby P incidents that only government can be held responsible for.

The current government are making Trump look like a level headed, broad thinking, charming man