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Bloody hell! It made me go through some sort of sadistic torture test! "Zwift is just trying to understand your fitness levels. Now rack the effort up to a 10 fatboy" ...or words to that effect. I actually didn't mind that wee workout. Only 20 minutes for my first try at it, but it was 20 minutes more on a bike than I would have done tonight!
Think i may go for the 17:45 today.. As long as i don't miss any of the splits i should do reasonably well in it. Although there's a couple of monster power guys for the finish i'm not sure what i can do about them !
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=280850
It's on the new Dolphin Crit course which i've not ridden yet, but the other one was fairly flat and looking at the profile this one looks similar. Seems to be something like 22-23 mins which suits my riding style about as good as it can.
A bit of a watcher on this thread - interesting following the link to see a number of competitors have 20 min w/kg above the limit for the category they have entered - do they get dq'd from zwiftpower when the results come out
It’s on the new Dolphin Crit course which i’ve not ridden yet, but the other one was fairly flat
same course just reversed no?
interesting following the link to see a number of competitors have 20 min w/kg above the limit for the category they have entered – do they get dq’d from zwiftpower when the results come out
That depends on the organisers rules really, some allow a certain amount over the limit lik 0.2w/kg. They can apply they settings either pre-race in the config or after race in the results updates, based upon a number of different parameters.
It can also depend on the below
WKG Category C 303 races
95% of 20min 279watts / 3.17wkg
95% of 20min 277watts / 3.15wkg
95% of 20min 274watts / 3.08wkg
Average 277watts / 3.14wkg
If the person crosses the 3.2w/kg threshold for example then they'll be gone too
Things like No HR monitor is another instant DQ, as is a non smart trainer..
same course just reversed no?
ooooh interesting... there's a small climb then which may not suit me quite as well in this config, but hopefully it's short enough and shallow enough that it won't matter, plus the rollers should play in my favour.... Will be curious to see then.
I wonder if I'm alone in my nerdiness looking at who's racing and how they're likely to do, seeing who I need to best to get ranking points and who's likely to blow me away in the sprint etc.
I don't need to know who I'm up against to know I'm going to be good odds for last place in B. 😉
I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, ~80Kg (although the variance in my daily weight is an eye-opener, not to mention where I place the digital scales can also affect the result by up to ~3Kg!) and several ~287W 20min MAPs on record.
I know I have 5Kg+ I could lose, but I'm such a carb craver at this time of year, it was agonising last night not going to make a peanut butter and jam sandwich or two after having a veg chilli (without rice/pasta/bread etc.); a satsuma; a small gingerbread cookie. It didn't help my waistline by having a 6-pack of cold x buns on delivery on top of a relatively healthy meal deal either!
It wasn't as if I'd done a hard turbo session before dinner, ~95mins of mostly z1/2, with ~13.5mins of z4+ short intervals up inclines and a course sprint section.
There has to be a better way of categorising riders than simply W/Kg in Zwift races IMO, because W/Kg is only a good way to group people up long steady climbs like Mountain/Mountain8/Alpe Du Zwift... And even then, that's only a decent comparison when the whole ride takes ~20mins, which is a rarity! My best 60mins of late is 254W, which would put me below 3.2W/Kg and back in C.
Some sort of formula that looks at the incline distance on course compared to overall race distance, some way of looking at rider power profiles for the expected duration of the race etc.
From the forum posts on Zwiftpower.com i don't see the Cats and enforcements changing much.
I'm similar to you though mate, give it a few weeks and i may be seeing you there... Although arguably i think if i jump on the scales i could add 2-3kg to my weight
I just got my arse handed to me by a couple of 70 year olds on e-mountain bikes at the weekend and it’s spurred me on to do something about my fitness.
If it makes you feel any better, a while back I was out with Crazylegs of this parish on cross bikes pedalling over to Ladybower to check out the Lancaster fly-past. Neither of us are remarkably slow or unfit, but we were comprehensively destroyed an a backroad climb by a little old lady and her husband riding what looked like shopping bikes.
They were highly apologetic, which was quite amusing, but I think the new reality for most of us is that e-bikes usually win regardless of the rider 🙁
Good on you Beagle, I've gone down 14kg from from 92kg to 78kg since October off the back of Zwifting, less beer and crap snacks.
I've personally been enjoying the structured plans and found the first few weeks of the 4wk FTP Builder a great way to catch the bug and now have been picking and choosing sessions around Running/Zwift Treadmill which I've got sucked into as well.
There has to be a better way of categorising riders than simply W/Kg in Zwift races IMO, because W/Kg is only a good way to group people up long steady climbs like Mountain/Mountain8/Alpe Du Zwift… And even then, that’s only a decent comparison when the whole ride takes ~20mins, which is a rarity! My best 60mins of late is 254W, which would put me below 3.2W/Kg and back in C.
Some sort of formula that looks at the incline distance on course compared to overall race distance, some way of looking at rider power profiles for the expected duration of the race etc.
If it was like real life, it'd just be done on results no? Zwift is obsessed with w/kg as some sort of pace metric, which would only make sense if everyone weighed the same. On top of that, any pure physiological measure is going to find it hard to take account of the way riders vary in power distribution etc and that's before you throw in weird mental stuff like the willingness to suffer.
If it was like real life, it’d just be done on results no?
Plenty of races are done that way though, free for all, just ride against everyone.
I've nothing against them races, i generally do about top 50% in them or better... but it can be a lottery with riding around in a group or finding yourself alone.
Obviously in C on flat races i'm competitive within the Cat, so it's far far more enjoyable. The tactics, the chasing, the sitting and waiting and holding a lower Hr when possible etc... If i get bumped to B that will kinda be a blow to my fun.... But doesn't mean i will stop the racing, i'll still get there often.
It's again a question of choosing what most suits. I like this new Crit series as it's split Cat set off times too, which means i'm only racing against Cs... (in theory anyway).
If i get bumped to B that will kinda be a blow to my fun
just put on some weight 🙂
If it was like real life, it’d just be done on results no?
Outside of the pro ranks isn't real-life racing category based albeit on previous results rather than W/Kg
I am also a fan of the split cat set off times as lets face it despite it being 'only a game' it is much more fun to at least be in with a chance of 'winning' than coming 3/4 of the way down the field.
I did notice in my only race so far I was one of the heaviest, although as said it depends what time I weigh myself. I think Zwift power states lightest recorded current weight. I could be wrong though
Biggest issue for me is saddle comfort on a totally static bike. I put spinny disc thing under the front wheel chock to try out the MTB steering, seems to help with comfort or it could be in my head.
just put on some weight
I've added on 1kg... But i still think arguably i'm a little light on my 'real'weight... but not much off either way
Biggest issue for me is saddle comfort on a totally static bike. I put spinny disc thing under the front wheel chock to try out the MTB steering, seems to help with comfort or it could be in my head.
I have one of the turntable type Kurt Kinetic front wheel supports plus a Coplate DIY rocker plate kit and I reckon it makes a big difference to saddle comfort - if you look at real world riding, your front wheel is constantly adjusting rather than just pointing straight ahead and the combination feels a load more natural.
Basically anything that introduces some movement into the system and means you're not sat on a rigid, unmoving saddle seems to help.
I'll Google the rocker plate thing, ta.
Edit
Wow! There's loads of reading to be done, I need to build something easily stowable as until the lodger moves on I don't have a dedicated room.
I wonder if I’m alone in my nerdiness looking at who’s racing and how they’re likely to do, seeing who I need to best to get ranking points and who’s likely to blow me away in the sprint etc.
Nope I started doing that this year in the Dirt Cup series. Earmarked people to keep an eye on and chase down if I have to. Ignore the non regesitered and out of cat riders. The Live tab is ideal for this. Don't 100% trust it as I found out there are some name discrepencies and if people don't sign up until the last minute they don't show up on the live until part way through (I think)
Zwift is obsessed with w/kg as some sort of pace metric, which would only make sense if everyone weighed the same.
they have to equal out the power some how .
if it was just based on power then because theres no ACTUAL hill - heavy TT power houses with high power high weight will smash the flyweight climbers with high power to weight regardless of terrain.
might as well bin the power reading and just do speed as the metric in such a case.
Re the CAT thing when you are at the pointy end of CAT B/C/D (not A as you're basically racing for the overall win) it's the lightweights that lose out as they can't descend or ride on the flat as fast as heavy riders.
I only really twigged racing up the Alpe as basically everyone finished in order of WKG so didn't matter if someone in my CAT was 20kg lighter they finished behind me if they were at .1WKG less.
The lightweights have an advantage on short steep climbs as they should be able to accelerate quicker but if you anticipate it you can go with them easily enough and when it settles back down near the top it's matched again on WKG.
The problem for any points based solution is the sheer quantity of new riders who will always win the lower cat races anyway before getting bumped up.
I'm back in B but not raced yet as have been very tired and now in a rest week so will probably be back to races after Xmas. Being 80kg means I can probably hold onto the B group for shorter flat races but anything with a hill that lasts more than 30seconds will see me out the back when looking at climbing times on Strava.
The problem for any points based solution is the sheer quantity of new riders who will always win the lower cat races anyway before getting bumped up.
Yup, deffo a bit of a quirk there... I don't see me winning tonights event and half of them who beat me will be WAY down the ranks compared to me.
Along with a couple of rogue Bs in there too.
Perversely if you were a decent B and you wanted to cheat to win stuff you'd put weight on your avatar and make them shorter to basically clean up in C.
You'd then be able to cruise around at a comfortable power and have plenty left to punch away up climbs and have a big sprint but never worry the WKG limit.
had a dabble at the crit, Bell Lap version, wish they would disable power ups, no chance of decent sprint , too on the gas from the start, 187bpm average for 20 minutes, ouch! 292w average, first ride back using the neo as power, as no power meter for the new bike yet.
the 2% er at the end caught me out, was too far back and there was the tiniest of splits
9th in B
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=280572
I don’t believe for a second that all other riders out there train and interval for 1 min power like this, they’re not there sessioning climbs, well, I don’t think so anyway.
Why would they train something that’s not a weakness for them 😉
Stripped back to basics, the point of training is simply to practice doing the thing you want to do but can’t.
Most people focus on FTP as it’s a good catch all but if short duration power is losing you races then why not work on it 🤷🏻♂️
Most people focus on FTP as it’s a good catch all but if short duration power is losing you races then why not work on it
In simple terms I don't think I can make enough of a difference to my riding that it would give me enough. I think I am who and what I am to an extent and as with all walks of life you play to your strengths. In exactly the same way I wouldn't expect a 65kg Chinese guy to race me on the flat if he's a hill whippet.
Yet race in, race out all we hear is “waaaaah, the other boys did more watts up the hills!” as if they are like some weird cyborgs or using an Ant+ simulator 🤣🤣🤣🤣😉😉😉
At this low level, we all have the luxury of picking and choosing what we want to be good/better at- none of us in C (or prob D for me now ☹️ 😉) are exactly bouncing off of our genetic Rev-limiter 😉🤣
Yet race in, race out all we hear is “waaaaah, the other boys did more watts up the hills!” as if they are like some weird cyborgs
Nope. In the hilly ones we do, not all.
You can't make a racehorse out of a pony
No but you can improve your 1 minute power....
But not the next 10 minutes after that 1.
Because you haven’t trained it fresh. So you are using the wrong muscle fibres.
The people who don’t need to do sets of 1min intervals already have them.
Weeksy, please take this as constructive criticism: You often change the spec of your bike to suit the event which is fair enough. But you can also adapt your own physiology if you want. The 1 min interval work will help you in Flanders as most stuff is 1-5 mins effort with spikes within that.
Weeksy, please take this as constructive criticism
I always do, honest. I don't take it any other way.
Reading it and actively doing it are 2 different things though.
Hopefully he knows me well enough from real life to know it’s all banter with a smile on my face.
Although I stick a few smilies on to make sure 😉🤣
you'll both be pleased to know i'm doing a solid 22min 300w flat curve effort a 5:45
😉
Booorrring;)
LOL crit race, flat out all the way
I need to get on the start line of a short crit race soon. How does it replicate the sprints out of the corners? You don't need to decelerate for corners in Zwift so I guess you don't need to push on the pedals off a bend?
Sadly not, part of me hopes they add it, part of me not as it wouldn't suit me as much.
Basically it just provides a short hard and mostly flat race for now with close racing.
Over 120 in C tonight so a good start essential along with sitting as close to the front as possible in case of splits
from zwiftinsider
(and i didn't know the london bit, i just assumed my avatar continually took a rubbish line through there as i always ended up towards the back) haha
Auto-braking on turns is a rare thing in Zwift–in fact, it only happens in one place, as far as we know. That place is on the 180-degree turn on London’s Classique course, and even there it only happens in one direction.
As riders enter this turn, their speed is automatically slowed to around 21 mph. This gives racers another opportunity to dig hard and attack after the deceleration, which keeps things interesting on an otherwise flat course where few attacks happen.
While most of the turns on Crit City could realistically be negotiated while coasting at high speed (just like outside), the two “dead turns” could have auto-braking added. This is the one feature we would like to see added to the Crit City course.
(And we’re not alone in this opinion: the course was launched only hours ago, but already the Zwift Community is saying, “We love the course–but slow us down in the corners!”)
Automatically slowing riders on these turns would result in two key improvements to the race experience: it would make the ride more realistic, as racers wouldn’t be negotiating hairpin turns at 30mph. And it would make races more dynamic by providing two more attack points per lap.
Well it's tougher doing the Dolphin way round, higher HR but also caused by a few rogue riders as usual and the small climb is a bit longer that way round.
Got 7th on the road but a kid had 4.8av and 3 with no HR info.
FTP increase to 287w.
Fun race though
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=280850
Nice one!
Well that was a bit keen after my training ride earlier, trainer and bike started making very odd noises after the start
Good work there mate, nice one!
Looks like you had a much better race than I did weeksy, mine turned into ~5min min interval reps, congrats!